oldiesman

I'm beginning to think that this "personal communing and relationship with Jesus" thing may be nothing more than spiritual gobbledygook. If you can't at least explain it, or explain how that would differ from a relationship or prayer to God, then you shouldn't condemn or disparage folks who might not participate in it.

What difference does it make? I like to know that when I pray, I know who I'm praying to. I like to know that if I receive communication in return, who exactly it is who is communicating with me.

In other words, the benefits transcend things like money.

Mr. Hammeroni, I understand what you mean but you must remember that many of the benefits of having faith are in the spiritual realm, that may not necessarily have physical manifestations like money.

Wordwolf I think you could be misrepresenting twi position here. I remember "spoudazo" from the collateral reading "Study be Diligent", so yes, that was taught in twi as well. I think the key of this verse is "rightly dividing the Word of truth"; when we do that we have the true word and in that work, are approved of God. God approves of that work, that effort. Rightly dividing the word of truth is an important thing for us to do, so important that it meets with God's approval of us.

Thanks Johniam. I think that's a legitimate question but actually that wasn't what I was thinking; what I thought was, "how do you know you're not communing with the Holy Spirit, or God; instead of Jesus?? How do you distinguish between them when communing? Is there a difference in how or what they each communicate? Another question; isn't God big enough to reveal his heart to you Himself? Since we now have holy spirit... why would God require Jesus to explain his Father's heart to you when the Father Himself can explain it directly to you via the Holy Spirit?

How?

Well at least you admit that it was God's holy spirit and not a counterfeit.

Not sure if I can agree with that. We know the teachings were not original, but the actual fellowship ministry and work were. Far as I can tell, B.G. Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger, et al. didn't run or coordinate anything that twi took from or copied.

Actually according to PFAL, VP taught that the Word of God he was speaking of was the Word as it originally came when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. The statistic I offered is my opinion. But my mind is open to hearing new views and Waysider, you haven't answered my previous question about Jesus and folks' possible relationship with him that wasn't taught in TWI? Since you assert this idea, I think it's incumbent upon you to explain what you mean so folks like me can learn where twi was possibly wrong or deficient.

Bondage, what bondage? Somewhere safer? The whole world is unsafe. But yes I think it was possible to be learned elsewhere. It didn't happen that way for me, but I think it was possible if twi wasn't around years ago. Today it is possible because of the offshoots, and twi itself (since they say they've changed ).

"understanding the personal relationship", what does that mean? what does that one mean?

So what? The PFAL class didn't teach all things that pertain to life and godliness, all possible opportunities where one may be approved and well pleasing unto God. It did however teach that God approves us when we study and rightly divide the Word.

It was either Graham or Roberts; VP said he didn't originate it, and I didn't say VP originated it. Who cares anyway? But too bad about your disparagement of the bible.. "God is severely limited to a bunch of words." I'm glad the bible means more to me than that. Golly, just look at Jesus who had a much greater approach to the Word of God than that. Show me anything that even hints Jesus had that approach. "God is limited to a bunch of words" baaaaa. Here's one verse from 2 Peter that elaborates the greatness of the Word: 2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Of course folks can receive word of knowledge too but 99% of the knowledge people would ever need is in the Word of God.

That's a great statement, and it would be nice for you to share it without having to repeatedly disparage VP and TWI, as your writings often do. Perhaps you can elaborate about some of the workings and attributes of this relationship since Sunesis seems to think this is way over my head.

Waysider, what is it about Jesus and folks' possible relationship with him that wasn't taught in TWI? Every now and then somebody mentions this, but I don't see what it actually consists of and what they are actually talking about.

Sorry, I think some of your views are hateful nonsense that warrant a strong response. If you can't take your views being strongly challenged, then I suggest you do something else. BTW, can you offer some concrete information about the immense greatness of Jesus Christ that was NOT taught in TWI? If TWI missed something then, I'm always open to learn more.

I have to disagree with that one because being loved by God and having his approval can be two separate things... God is love, but doesn't approve everything we do. I do still see study and rightly-dividing the Word of truth as winning God's approval. Its something we can do to be approved of God. And, knowing as we do it that God approves of that activity. Says it right there in the book.

Thanks for reminding me Waysider, I thought that was a terrific teaching. :) Well I guess that puts to rest the propaganda that Wierwille didn't teach about the immense greatness of Christ. And that is just one statement's worth.

Which was all taught by Wierwille.

That's absolute nonsense. What a cheap shot. The immense greatness of Christ is described in the Word of God. The WORD is THE LOGOS in writing. VP teaching that Christ being the subject of all the books, that the bible is magnified above God's name. I received tremendous abiding respect for Christ and his greatness by understanding the Word, that VP taught. I think if anyone's mind was / is closed to the greatness of Christ, it is that individual choice and has NOTHING to do with Dr. Wierwille.

I appreciate yours too Dan and thanks for the correction.

Another Dan, to try to answer you question, I am not comfortable calling Jesus "God". To me, there is only one Supreme God who stands alone. Jesus is not Jehovah Elohim or Allah. I think if God calls Jesus God, that's ok, God can call Jesus whatever He wants. However I AM personally very comfortable calling Jesus LORD. :) If that's what you choose to do and have no problem, then its ok with me :)

Thanks Evan. I have crashed twice, once in 1985 and once in 2005. Both times were my fault entirely, and totally preventable. Thank God my stupidity didn't involve anyone else. But when I ride now, I'm extra cautious at intersections as they are very dangerous for bikers. I also use the SEE method regularly when approaching intersections and changing lanes, (Search, Evaluate, Execute)

FOR CAR DRIVERS