oldiesman

I have to disagree on that one Dan. There's an abundance of information, especially for someone who longs to know that "The Word of God is the Will of God". I have a tremendous abiding respect for the bible and its characters because of VP's classes. VP does a great job teaching with enthusiasm on that one point alone.

Thanks for that information Mike. I would add that in addition to all this VP didn't like the idea of the U.S. sending billions of $$$ to Israel every year .

Yes I see that. It didn't bother me, being a salesman for PFAL , seeing it contained many wonderful truths about God and Jesus. I think about what the Word says about "whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached, and therein I rejoice"... I thought it was (and still is!) a decent starting point. Wouldn't it be great if PFAL was on internet free of charge.

For me the following came to pass: Makes Life Meaningful Explains Apparent Bible Contradictions Develops More Harmony in the Home Enables You to Separate Truth from Error Teaches How to Pray Effectively The other claims came to pass but not necessarily from PFAL, so I don't count those.

Yeah but I thought the Proverbs of Solomon is the Word of God and the Word of God is truth? You know, Holy Men of God Spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit? That a little bigger than "generally true" wouldn't you think?

Go to now Skyrider, its FRIDAY. Live and let live. :)

And if the Way ministry hated Jews, I wouldn't have hung around for 19 years. Folks I fellowshipped with, and folk who I studied with and under, came from Jewish heritage.

You are entitled to your opinion but if VP were actually anti-Semitic he wouldn't have welcomed Jews to the ministry. IF he were anti-Black, he wouldn't have welcomed blacks. Politically speaking, I think that label is thrown around way too much and is used as a pretext to keep the billions flowing to Israel. Politicians are deathly afraid to be labelled that way so they just shut up and go with the program.

Its stoopid to think that folks should abandon spiritual truths that are assimilated believed and received only because of the sins of the communicator. The guy who authored Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon, caused people to worship other gods and sacrifice their living babies to these false gods. People who want to continue to read and learn from these texts are stupid?

I would say that the ideas and images are pretty much the same. Jesus said "believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them"; "give, and it shall be given unto you" etc etc. I can't say it was a law that works like gravity; but a spiritual law, one that works, if one meets the conditions that God has asked. But its not like gravity because it is a spiritual law and might not be readily apparent or manifested like a physical law. In my mind, I substitute the word "law" for "truth". It is a spiritual truth. To me, the important thing is whether it is true or not, not whether it is a law or not.

I think VP's motive was economic and political. Which by the way was probably a stupid move because it was The Word the Word and nothing but the Word ... But yeah, I don't think he liked that the U.S. was (and still is) yearly shelling out $3-4 billion on Israel. He believed the Holocaust was used as a pretext to do that. " They are perpetual victims so let's keep shelling out billions for them. " And so forth.

So someone accused you of believing Revisionist information because you simply taught in the offshoot. The offshoot itself didn't even teach it. Amazing! Thats really cruel. Yes VPW had books in the Way Bookstore for the longest time about Revisionist thought and theories. The Myth of the Six Million, and the Hoax of the Twenthieth Century are two that were there.

Golly, I wasn't thinking evil of that mother; all I saw was the teaching concept.

On the positive side, yes. On the negative side, no. I think that's where VP could have gotten it wrong.... i.e., "The Law Of Believing on the Negative Side". It doesn't make sense to me and as I look at the scripture I don't see where Jesus taught this...

Yes that's the way I remember he taught it. But what kind of fear and how did it actually work? Negative thought waves of doubt and worry transmitted through the atmosphere? Or, not ever teaching her kid to cross properly because she always thought and wanted him to be picked up? I can say the same about YOUR interpretation. VP didn't say that fear was "negative thought waves transmitted through the atmosphere" that caused calamities, did he? That was how YOU took it. I didn't take it that way. Dan, that wasn't VP I was quoting, it was Groucho Marx. Look at the quote again...

Dan, I think you misquoted me. I believe I said this: This quote is from PFAL and to the best of my recollection, VPW made the above comment in the context of believing God's promises in the Word. Was not spoken in the context of bad things, like disease and death, etc. What killed the little boy? Obviously the car that hit him. Look, this was a teaching tool of VPW. I can see the point he was making about fear and the way I took at that one was , the mother was always afraid to have the child walk home alone, so she always met him, and never taught him the correct way to cross the street. I do not believe that she transitted her fear through the atmosphere and it killed the boy.

This is exactly the way I feel about VPW but some say he wasn't qualified to help me. HE DID IT, HE GOT THE JOB DONE. Qualified or no.

Dan, I don't understand what you're saying here. God made it happen when the mother's believing was reversed?

I do not distort what VPW said and I am not crucifying Dr. Juedes. But I do strongly critique some of his statements. That is what the forums are here for. And if I were ignoring almost everything he writes, I wouldn't bother responding to some of his written comments because I'd be ignoring them. Some of the stuff he writes is good. :)

There are contradictions and errors in PFAL. It isn't God Breathed, after all. :) But it isn't atheistic either.

I am here to express my opinions; no more, no less. You are entitled to believe what you will, but at least one difference I can tell you, is that I am not under any allusions that what I post is part of some righteous mission to expose evil and help people get out of bondage. As opposed to some posters, who portray themselves in this manner thereby making justification for their own continued hatred of VP and TWI.

Fear brings results. In the case of the mother, it caused her to fail to teach her child how properly to cross the street. That is the way I interpret it. How do you interpret it that her fear was transmitted through the air and caused the accident?

Oh please. Many folks thought about this years ago, way before the message boards.

I don't recall VP saying "the laws of the universe brought this to pass". To the best of my recollection he said "God set the laws of the universe in place" so he was acknowledging God setting up the rules and design. This is far from atheistic as Dr. Juedes has asserted.

He chose to emphasize that it was the fear in the heart and life of the mother. He wasn't condemning the mother; he was emphasizing the fear she had, and taught it that way. Her fear is what caused the accident. Yes the driver may have had some responsibility; on the other hand, what if the child just didn't look and jumped in front of the car and the driver could not get out of the way? Fear brings results. In this case, one of the results was the mother not teaching the child how properly to cross the street. THAT is the point of the teaching; not that the mother was under blame or condemnation.