oldiesman

It certainly was. I truly believe it was the communication of the truth and accuracy of the word, like we never heard it before, and mixed with lots of love, that inspired us to walk in love, joy, peace and excitement and thus, produced fruit like this. Were these guys inspired like this before twi? I trow not. I believe VPW's believing and teaching helped to encourage fruit like this. The distinguishing between what exists today and what existed in the past is appreciated and worth noting. Whatever becomes of twi now and in the future, I believe it was once a terrific place to be.

Here's another oldiesman oldie but goldie original: :D

Please don't let it die. :D There are some oldies but goodies there. Here's one from 2002: A poster commented: I answered:

Bluzeman & Larry, thanks for the support. I think the folks who accuse me of calling posters liars are taking my posts/opinions way too seriously. They must have a lot of spare time on their hands. Not that I don't. :D

A good cigar.

Thanks Bluzeman, I appreciate the support. I can't remember whether someone was called a liar by me or I believed they were lying. I forgot the context, it was probably very long ago. I do believe some posters are great at spinning, like Wordwolf. :D Is evil surmising a form a lying? I don't know, perhaps. I DO believe some posters are great at surmising evil. Thinking the worst about twi and ignoring everything else. Promoting the sins and faults of people (particularly male leaders) over everything else. Is that a form a lying? I don't know, perhaps. Is promoting factual information that is all one-sided a form of lying? This is what Dr. Juedes does on his website. Is that lying? I don't know, it is interesting. I suppose if someone says that twi is lying when they promote only positives about their group, someone else may come along and say that Dr. Juedes is lying when he promotes only negatives about twi. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

Blue Ridge Mountains? Shenandoah River? :D All the times I visited West Virginia on my bike, I loved the place. I want to go back in the fall and see the leaves.

From what I've heard, there is plenty of doubt. Unless you knew Don Wierwille and knew what happened behind the scenes or knew someone who knew what happened behind the scenes, you don't know the stow-ray. Best not to speculate. I also heard that Dr. Wierwille offered Dr. Don to be the president of the ministry first, before Craig, and Don turned that offer down. Have a wonderful weekend, one and all!

The way it was explained to me: she worked her way in, first becoming very close friends with Donna, then in the early 1990's, Craig started seeking more & more counsel from Donna & Rosalie and Don & Howard were gradually being moved out of the picture. Over time, Craig was virtually ignoring Don & Howard and Donna & Rosalie were basically running the show as his assistants. It was after that and she was the next in line.

I agree with your additions. It makes sense. I believe God wants all of us to follow him and his word with love as the motivation, because we choose to, not because we are being forced to or told to.

But I wouldn't be afraid of going back and checking them out to see what is happening. Would you?

Right. Twi doesn't have a website as Dr. Juedes, for example, devoted to condemning a particular religion and / or presenting a disparaging view of a group. If it had one, well, you could condemn it if you want.

My commitment is not where it should be, I guess. :D

Mo, I agree with your above statement , which is what VPW taught in PFAL and I think he handled it pretty well.

If they asked, and fixed a few things. Yes. First thing they have to fix, is get a fellowship near my house, not 2 hours away. :D

Bolshevik, were you one of the children of twi that had no choice but to be there? If so, then you have legitimate victim status! Kind of reminds me of my time in the church of my youth. I had no choice... my parents said I had to go, so I went. :D I guess I'm defending my perceptions and experience of twi. My own opinions. Everyone has them, and of course, you have a right to defend yours. But, I am sorry you had no "good times" in twi. I wish you did. I wish you were never involved and I'm sure Dr. Wierwille wished the same. I believe he didn't want folks to be there who didn't want to be.

To people who are against twi and want only to see one side of it, the bad side, Dr. Juedes provides medicine and goodness, I suppose. But for me, it is poison. I was involved for 19 years and do not accept only one side, only the negative comments and situations that Dr. Juedes promotes. Just forget everything good that happened and focus only on the dirt and sins of people. Is that godliness? Is that what God wants me to do? I doubt it; but where twi is concerned, I think this is what Dr. Juedes is all about.

Are you referring to the following verses?: 1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. I thought these were handled pretty well in PFAL. If you have a better explanation of them, I'll be happy to consider.

Apples and oranges. TWI has a website that supports their own belief and product; they are not condemning anyone else. In contrast, where twi is concerned, Dr. Juedes communicates only negative and poisonous information. Big difference. He's on a mission. It's one thing to have a website to promote your own belief and product, and its entirely another to condemn another ministry, providing only one side of an argument.

I think single women would have gotten up the ladder anyway, if they wanted. You are free to speculate and assume, but I haven't seen proof that any woman was ordained specifically because she slept with Wierwille or anyone else. In fact I think the accusation is an insult to the spiritual commitments and abilities of some of the ordained women. By this accusation, I think you have degraded these women. Single women were treated as equals in twi. And look who's now running the whole shebang?... TWI as a ministry was degrading to women? I don't believe it, and wouldn't have been involved with it for 19 years if I saw evidence of ministry bias against women.

To the contrary, this is one reason why I believe, in fact, that twi as a ministry didn't degrade women. I was in submission to them on the spiritual level. Women were elevated into spiritual positions and responsibilities. That's not degrading...that's elevating.

Mo , I followed along and agree with everything you wrote, except the above. The text in Ephesians reads that as the church is subject unto Christ, so the wive is to subject to her own husband in everything. It doesn't say "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing, except when they choose not to." I have done this ooodles of times and especially when having female coordinators !

Getting back to this original question and statement is telling. Look at what Hooner did, she blamed twi because some ex way members ridiculed her for supporting women's rights. ex way members's statements have nothing to do with twi but twi gets the blame anyway.

Of course not. I do however believe that it's very possible that many of the legitimate abuses endured by wives didn't come from any teachings or motivations from twi or its leaders. But no matter, the purveyors of victim entitlement want to continue to blame twi and its male leaders for every cruel and evil act of a husband against a wife, while in twi. But I think each situation must be examined separately to determine whether twi is really at fault. As it happens, experiences in my own family were exactly the opposite of what some present here. My mother was physically abused by my father, years before twi. But while in twi, none of this ever happened. Far from it ... my mother got our entire family very involved in twi in the early 1970's.

Then how do you explain Ephesians? Eph 5:22 ¶ Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.