oldiesman

To people who are against twi and want only to see one side of it, the bad side, Dr. Juedes provides medicine and goodness, I suppose. But for me, it is poison. I was involved for 19 years and do not accept only one side, only the negative comments and situations that Dr. Juedes promotes. Just forget everything good that happened and focus only on the dirt and sins of people. Is that godliness? Is that what God wants me to do? I doubt it; but where twi is concerned, I think this is what Dr. Juedes is all about.

Are you referring to the following verses?: 1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. I thought these were handled pretty well in PFAL. If you have a better explanation of them, I'll be happy to consider.

Apples and oranges. TWI has a website that supports their own belief and product; they are not condemning anyone else. In contrast, where twi is concerned, Dr. Juedes communicates only negative and poisonous information. Big difference. He's on a mission. It's one thing to have a website to promote your own belief and product, and its entirely another to condemn another ministry, providing only one side of an argument.

I think single women would have gotten up the ladder anyway, if they wanted. You are free to speculate and assume, but I haven't seen proof that any woman was ordained specifically because she slept with Wierwille or anyone else. In fact I think the accusation is an insult to the spiritual commitments and abilities of some of the ordained women. By this accusation, I think you have degraded these women. Single women were treated as equals in twi. And look who's now running the whole shebang?... TWI as a ministry was degrading to women? I don't believe it, and wouldn't have been involved with it for 19 years if I saw evidence of ministry bias against women.

To the contrary, this is one reason why I believe, in fact, that twi as a ministry didn't degrade women. I was in submission to them on the spiritual level. Women were elevated into spiritual positions and responsibilities. That's not degrading...that's elevating.

Mo , I followed along and agree with everything you wrote, except the above. The text in Ephesians reads that as the church is subject unto Christ, so the wive is to subject to her own husband in everything. It doesn't say "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing, except when they choose not to." I have done this ooodles of times and especially when having female coordinators !

Getting back to this original question and statement is telling. Look at what Hooner did, she blamed twi because some ex way members ridiculed her for supporting women's rights. ex way members's statements have nothing to do with twi but twi gets the blame anyway.

Of course not. I do however believe that it's very possible that many of the legitimate abuses endured by wives didn't come from any teachings or motivations from twi or its leaders. But no matter, the purveyors of victim entitlement want to continue to blame twi and its male leaders for every cruel and evil act of a husband against a wife, while in twi. But I think each situation must be examined separately to determine whether twi is really at fault. As it happens, experiences in my own family were exactly the opposite of what some present here. My mother was physically abused by my father, years before twi. But while in twi, none of this ever happened. Far from it ... my mother got our entire family very involved in twi in the early 1970's.

Then how do you explain Ephesians? Eph 5:22 ¶ Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

I write generally; yes there are exceptions.What I believe the exceptions are is as I've quoted in the past:

Still, in Genesis 3:16, God said to the woman "he shall have rule over thee". TWI was being biblical in teaching that the husband is to rule (with love) over the wife. Like it or not, that's what it was , a biblical ministry. If you stayed around for years, you consented to it. Your participation acknowledged your own belief in it.

From what I've observed, those who've been a part of twi and who think the best of Dr. Juedes, also seem to think the worst about twi. Is that mere coincidence? "by their fruits ye shall know them" Make no mistake, Dr. Juedes is a one-track crusader against twi desiring to poison people against it. In everything else in his life, he may be quite reasonable.

I agree.

I don't know, Evan. I think where twi is concerned, Rev. Juedes is exactly a one-track crusader and desires folks thinking evil and poison about twi. He does not allow varying opinions about twi on his website. He will gladly, share and post about every evil work committed in twi but doesn't allow "positive" and "godly" experiences and happenings of those of us who may want to share them. What does that tell you? He may well display fruit of the spirit and his ministry may be very godly; can't say because I don't know the guy. But where twi is concerned, from everything I've seen and heard I think he's a one-track crusader.

Congratulations Raffy.

"The Word of God is the will of God" Perhaps the most powerful of VP's quotes.

What I really mean is, it's a free will thing. If one freely consented to their situation back then, I think it's pretty hard to complain about it now and make much sense.

Depends on the individuals making the decision. I knew folks who just went to twig for many years, subject to no one. I was one of them.

Absolutely.

Hi folks. Like it or not, the Way taught (or teaches) the bible and the bible teaches that the wife be subject to the husband (Eph 5: 22-24). After all we once were participants in a BIBLICAL group who believed the BIBLE is the word of God? Nobody was forced to do this and we consented to it, year after year. This does present a problem for the wife if she does not want to live like that. Of course it does. The whole damn bible presents a problem if one doesn't want to live like that. But I am still of the opinion that folks should stop blaming twi for something that the bible says right there in plain English. I would add, I think husbands who love their wives as Christ loved the church are worthy of the wives submission.

I don't see anything new there... Dr. Wierwille said decades ago that we were labelled a cult because we didn't believe in the trinity. Can you imagine that there are some folks who actually think we were a satanic cult? It is mind boggling what some of these people actually believe. Would they say the same about Judiasm? Are they satanic because they don't believe that Jesus is God Almighty? Of course not! But they have no problem trashing their Christian brethren, we who believe Jesus is God's only begotten Son, the Messiah, the returning the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. So much for exhalting Satan. You know, I think this just demonstrates how kooky and extreme some of these trinitarians are.

I believe in reincarnation but the way the bible phrases it. The words "resurrection" and "reincarnation" are very similar. Jesus had a body of flesh and bones, his resurrected body. That is, essentially, the definition of reincarnation. So yes, I do believe in reincarnation.

Hardly ever. I believe each person is responsible for his/her actions. I believe the only exceptions would be: (1) children, who must obey their parents. In that case, the parents are accountable; (2) mentally retarded; and (3) those who were narcotized. "The Buck Stops Here" President Truman

Then how would you define brainwashing? And at what degree would it turn from learning, to out-and-out brainwashing? Can you give some examples of what you believe to be legitimate brainwashing encounters?

I guess brainwashing happens but I don't know of any that existed in twi. Peoples words are as powerful as you make them in your own mind and decision making, and because of varied experiences in twi, how powerful one made peoples words would be individual thing. Unless one wants to accuse all religions of engaging in brainwashing their students especially those who one doesn't agree with years later. If that's the case, then I may accuse the religion of my youth for brainwashing me for many years. But that's no answer. Look, for whatever reason, you CHOSE to believe what you did, it's that simple. I chose to believe what I did, it's that simple. At one time, I believed that tithing was the key to prosperity and abundance. Then when I became disenchanted and wanted to really test the theory, and stopped tithing, I discovered it didn't work for me, and knew that tithing had nothing to do with my prosperity and abundance. There you go, I have accepted my choice and discarded it according to my choice. But, I can only speak for myself. Someone else may feel that tithing or abs does bring them some prosperity and abundance. Who am I to argue? The bottom line, this is the United States of America, with freedom of religion. Thank God each of us may choose what we choose to believe.