oldiesman

I think Johniam believes the same as me on this topic and he already answered it. SIT is not a requirement for salvation (getting born again). We believe that, and that is what twi taught, even in the '90s. If not, prove it, show us when and where twi taught that SIT is a requirement for salvation. And by proof, I ask for what twi actually publically taught .... not someone's perception, not someone's erroneous thinking. Any proof from the last 50 years from a twi book, a twi magazine, the whole array of various classes, or a twi teaching service tape will suffice. Alternatively, I can find clear published teaching from twi that the only requirement for salvation, is the believing of Romans 10:9. Bob Moynihan kicked a lady out of fellowship because she wouldn't speak in tongues and called others "unbelieving" because they don't speak in tongues. But, did he say these folks were unsaved, were not born again? According to twi doctrine, the best he could say is, "I don't know whether these folks are born again because I didn't hear them speak in tongues, I don't know, because SIT is the manifestation of that spirit." Or else God would have to tell him by revelation that these folks are not born again, did Moynihan say that? Who says Moynihan meant "not saved" or "not born again" when he said "unbelieving". Could he have meant "unbelieving believer" which is a term of twi? Could he have meant "carnal Christian"? That was another term used in twi. Why not call Moynihan and ask him what he actually meant instead of possibly misrepresenting his position?

I agree with DogLover and I learned that in twi. Have a great weekend, one and all! :)

Hi Noni, There was no requirement to take PFAL, and the cost varied, depending on what time period you took it. I believe cost ranged from $30-200. Cost me $60.00, but I paid more because I took it at a 1-week camp. PFAL was full of goodies. Some wonderful things I learned were...; God loves me despite my sins (the palms of God)... How to get born again... That I have sonship rights... That I am completely completely absolutely complete in Him... My power of attorney... God wants me to hold fast that which is good... God wants me free from fear worry doubt anxiety and all matter of oppression... Speaking in tongues... Jesus Christ is the Way Truth & Life, no man cometh to God but by him... There is One Baptism by Holy Spirit, and water baptism is not required for salvation... Jesus Christ is the Son of God, not God the Son... I am As He Is... Jesus Kept the Passover... Whatever a Person Believes Is Directly Reflected In What He Confesses... Simon of Cyrene and the Cross Christ Bore... God wants me to believe all the benefits He has promised me thru Christ... Pauls Thorn in the Flesh... Ekklesia: Bride or Body? God is our Sufficiency... Church the Great Mystery Revealed, Christ in You, the hope of glory... The Bondage of the Sabbath Day.... Body, Soul, Spirit... The dead are dead, not alive... The Unqualified Commitment... How to be a Christian... What true worship is... Filled to Overflowing.... Why Division... The Final Victory...

Well, I think I'll pass. I do remember this group being around in the early '70s, and yes, I did hear they were supposed to be into free sex. I remember a house where they lived in my neighborhood in the Bronx. I never explored their beliefs. Here are more of them, The Mo Letters

I definitely believe there was increase in the body of Christ, even with this structure. I feel the same way today. God can work with folks in the structure to bring increase to His body.

I always found "the ritual of refreshments" to be a pleasing experience. :D

I think their statement of beliefs look pretty good. Beliefs of The Family

Of course it wasn't natural. It wasn't carnal. But it was damn challenging. But when you're on a divine mission, an ambassador for Christ, when you believe Christ may return at a moment's notice, when you believe your actions are godly and significant and profitable and you are doing God's work, and you had that mindset, it was a blessing no matter how difficult it seemed. God looks on the heart. God honors works done in His and Christ's name. If you didn't have that mindset, I think you were just wasting your time.

I disagree, but perhaps today's TWI could be a legalistic counterfeit of the TWI of the 60's and 70's; which was part of that genuine movement of God. I never met Heefner and Doop, but view their participation in twi as part of the genuine. Whether twi revives remains to be seen. I'm not a prophet and don't wish to predict the future. The offshoots are doing pretty well, I consider them genuine.

yes I recall that was worship of the Goddess Abundantia... :D

I don't have a problem with considering twi being part of a wider and bigger Jesus Movement resurgence/revival of Christianity in the 60's and 70's. It's nice to hear some folks appreciate that twi was a part of that, and a part of the growing body of Christ of that era, and not some counterfeit.

Yes it was a good way to overcome that fear.

(1) No water baptism requirement to participate. (2) I have no idea... ask Wordwolf. (3) No requirement. (4) Going door to door was essentially a WOW activity. WOW was a one-year commitment where the participant volunteers to witness 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, some of which included door to door witnessing. I was WOW twice, and door to door was not very frequent, but there was some. The purpose was to make twi fellowships available, and sign folks up for PFAL classes. (5) No requirement other than WOW when the family fellowship decided to go.

maybe there's an interpretation :D

Welcome Noni. My ex-brother in law who was once heavily involved in twi, converted to jw a few years back. He now has essentially shunned all of us. Last time I left a message on his phone, I asked him to read "Crisis of Conscience". Haven't heard from him since.

Tom, A few years back, Dave sent me the 37-page letter of February 1987 from John & Pat Lynn, Tom Reahard, Robert Belt and Ralph D., to Craig, Don, Howard, Johnny & Ricardo, wherein they wrote they were marking and avoiding the BOT for essentially, their dereliction of duty. Quote after quote of Dr. Wierwille's teachings and concepts; but NOTHING mentioned about the immoral sex being practiced. I think if the illicit sex of twi was an issue to these folks, who virtually started the exodus of 1987, their letter would have been the perfect opportunity to present that in their argument.

I'm still waiting for your PM exc so we may chat. :)

Happy Birthday.

FreeAtLast, Thanks for sharing. Have a great weekend. :)

I have a friend who's riding his Gold Wing to Sturgis. I tried to talk him out of it.

I agree in part, but I also believe folks who made decisions could have erred in judgment, as well. I leave the heart searching for God. I think that's His domain. Which is to share my thoughts and opinions, which is what this forum is all about. Why do some folks have a problem with this? May I suggest, unchain yourself to this forum if you can't handle opinions other than your own. Ex, I'd love to. Feel free to PM anytime, I'd love to get to know you better.

And why would it be good for them to shut up? I thought the general idea of the forums is for folks to give their opinions, the more diverse, the merrier? Those who tolerate other viewpoints have no problem.

No T-Bone, I'm not at liberty. You don't have to believe me, I'm not offended.

HCW never said that Kevin was applying the law of believing magic, thereby ignoring safety considerations, as satori alleges. That is all satoris' spin. Did you read all what HCW wrote, before satori's rant? Heck, I don't think even HCW would or could actually know what was in Kevin's mind and heart in that particular moment, unless Kevin shared it with him. You are spinning, using satori's distorted spin, as what purportedly occurred.

I could probably make a case that the driver wasn't really actually "believing for safety" since he seemed to be ignoring basic driving precautions. But what the heck, its Thursday.