oldiesman

Here satori seems to be opining that in that situation, the driver was applying "the law of believing" to be safe in the midst of his unsafe actions. But, how in the world does satori know all that? Does satori know the specific mindset of the driver, at that time? Did he speak with him, to make an accurate assessment of what he was thinking and feeling and believing in that specific incident? Or could satori be communicating a misconception based on ignoring the driver's actual position, which he doesn't know, and substituting a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position? Wordwolf, thanks for the strawman information. It was helpful. :D

I have shared what I know, and some of my opinions and experiences in twi. Doojable, you are free to share what you know, and your experiences. I'm not saying some things didn't or couldn't have happened, but an allegation on this thread has been made that twi wanted/expected this driver to disregard all safety; which has not been proven by any stretch of the imagination. If you have a specific incident(s) where you believe it was twi's fault, go ahead and post. I'll read it. We disagree hitchhiking is "tempting God" though.

Just because you have a mindset fantasy that this is so, doesn't make it so. The driver was expected to "pay no attention to safety considerations"? How in God's Green Earth do you know all that?

Well, we disagree on that point Doojable. I still like ya. :)

Tonto, let's say that's true, and twi didn't want to spend the loot to get you there. So? Had twi spent the loot, to get you there, and something bad happened in transporting folks there with the loot they spent, they'd get blamed anyway. Don't ya get it yet? (Some folks do, I've gotten some emails so I know some folks do get what I'm saying.) Oh glow-ray. :D

Did the BOT or corps ever have any corps policy that stated corps were asked/expected to drive in an unsafe way and "believe God would cover"? I actually heard differently, from teachings, that one shouldn't expect God to protect you when you do that kind of stuff. It was referred to as "tempting God", and God doesn't cover that kind of stuff. Do you remember the "reckless and hilarous" devil spirits in Athletes? Same deal. But TWI doesn't get thanked for that... But as I mentioned before, the anti-twi folks will blame twi whenever they can, at every opportunity, for everything that goes wrong in twi. It is always twi's fault.

So then your position is that twi wanted/expected the driver to disregard all safety, in that situation? That seems to be what you are alleging, specifically. Have you interviewed the BOT and asked them if this is what they wanted/expected? Or the cabinet, or corps director, at that time? Where in corps or lead literature does it advise drivers to and from lead to disregard all safety while driving? I think if you want to access that kind of specific blame, you must get very specific with your facts.

I disagree. The corps was about training participants to accomplish exploits and feats and sometimes, those feats were challenging and involved some harm. Driving has harm. Getting up at 5 in the morning and exercising has harm. Hitching has harm. Door to door witnessing has harm. Speaking to people has harm. Anything done out of the house has harm. Otherwise, gee, just stay home. How far do you want to push the envelope? The way corps was about pushing the envelope, and if folks who volunteered for it didn't know, golly, they should have known what was expected before volunteering. If they didn't research their investment, knowing what was expected, they made a mistake. And again, had twi chosen cars & trucks to transport folks to lead, and there was a crash, twi would get blamed anyway. The anti-twi folks would blame twi, not Greyhound.

The driver himself could have gone slow and waited for less wind, and avoided the accident. Because the driver didn't, and they crashed, you blame twi. Golly, doesn't even the driver bear some responsibility here? After all he's the one person who was in control of the truck, at that specific time.

Nothing does not do that, except staying home. Had TWI abandoned the hitchhiking concept, and instead went for cars and trucks, and a truck crashed, you'd blame twi. You have done so.

Bagpipes, praise God you had fun ... I do think lots of folks found it quite challenging, which may have been the idea all along. That's what I thought anyway... to push the envelope and expand lifes experiences and challenges.

I don't see that as the same Tom. I have specific knowledge that that guy doesn't want me to knock on HIS door, so I will not knock on HIS door ever again. But, should I stop knocking on all doors because one man threatened me? "No." I could, but that would mean I'd be allowing one guy to direct my actions and my life in a negative way. When TWI had knowledge that by doing a specific activity, at a specific time, at a specific place, a possible evil would occur, then yeah, I'd say they bear some responsibility. (example, Rosalie sending Fern off to the motel...) (there are many others, I just noted that one) That was specific, and wrong. But hitchhiking is different. Hey look at driving. There are at least some 30,000 U.S. deaths due to driving every year. It's dangerous. So when twi asks someone to drive a car (a dangerous activity that twi knows causes 30,000 U.S. deaths per year) and they crash, it's twi's fault for not banning that activity? Not to mention the fact that people themselves know that driving can be dangerous, yet they do it anyway...

Well Doojable, I don't believe hitchhiking was tempting God so I guess we'll have to disagree on this point. What if it were driving? Driving can be very dangerous! Do you know that in the U.S., perhaps 30-40,000 deaths per year? Maybe twi should have banned driving cause it was putting folks in harms way?

If the person giving the assignment knew that by giving that assignment, an evil would definitely occur, then I would agree with you. But in twi, we didn't think that way of hitchhiking. We believed God would protect us, shield us from evil. We believed in the shield of believing. Remember this verse?: We believed the bible in twi. We believed this verse. Now if you're talking about falling off a cliff, or shooting yourself in the head, I'd say that'd be tempting God. You KNOW that something evil would happen there, as you'd be breaking the natural laws like gravity and g-force.

If you're talking about falling off a cliff, Jesus was right not tempting God. I don't know if hitchhiking could honestly be put in that category. We certainly didn't in twi. But Jesus did believe in believing. You know the drill.. here are a couple of verses:

Dooj, I like you. Feel free to PM me if you want.

Waysider I was going to make an attempt to answer some of your questions but I don't think you want answers from me, it looks to me like you already have it all figured out.

The corps believed that God would protect from harm, so no. I don't think twi lied to folks when they claimed that God would protect them, because the bible itself claims that. We believed the bible. Now when bad happens, who do you blame, if anyone/anything? I blame the actual perpetrator, if any. On a spiritual level, I blame the devil. What if, on a twi assignment, you sustain injuries in a natural disaster? Like a hurricane or tornado. Do you blame twi then too, for "putting you in harm's way"? What if you weren't hitchhiking but driving a truck, and fall asleep at the wheel? Do you blame twi for putting you in harm's way? Maybe you do. I do not. Any of these things are possibilities in this world. Harm happens, with or without twi.

Well, if you believe you weren't serving God in twi, then that's a belief and image of your own life. I disagree with it, but you are entitled to think what you want about yourself. But, speak for yourself. You can't speak for others who were serving God. Minimally I think that'd have to be a decision in one's own soul to make.

Golly, here's a thought (food for thought): Let's replace the word "them", with "God." We prayed to God to keep us out of harm's way. We prayed in the name of Jesus Christ. We trusted in God. We believed God was protecting us. But when things went wrong, when harm happened, did you blame God? Do you blame God now? He created the world. He created people, who do harm to other people. Are you just as unmerciful and condemning with God, who failed to protect you, as you are with twi who failed to protect you?

Yeah I think it is. I heard one guy say if I knocked on his door again, he'd kick my a$$. I blame the co-op for putting me in harm's way. I'll stay home next time. Tom, is there a way you can blame twi for the heat outside? :D

You are free to show us how twi could have done it better, Lord Wordwolf. :D

Tom, the way you write, twi could simply have a program and you'd blame them if something goes wrong in the participation of that program because someone was harmed. If it wasn't hitchhiking, it be driving cars and falling asleep, then you'd blame twi. When something goes wrong in twi, blame twi. Do you ever blame the devil, our spiritual adversary, for evil happenings? or does it always have to be twi? Who do you blame today when something does wrong? At least you can't blame twi now, but who knows, maybe you do find a way?

Not only design, but action, is required. twi took action... WOWs took action, Corps took action. Special thumbs up for do-ers. It's not the critic that counts Press On - No matter what they say to you Theodore Roosevelt