oldiesman

Me too MO. That was one of the biggies in my life too.

Yes I get that. "what it was" for me was a legitimate and exciting alternative to the religion of my youth, which was the most legalistic and miserable religion I could possibly imagine (and did) at that time. "what it could have been" was what it was for me, what I expected and believed it was to me "what it still COULD be" depends on many factors, but I do believe it's possible for twi to have a legitimate comeback if it focuses on the right stuff. The simple basic stuff that was so exciting and such a blessing many years ago. From what I've heard, some participants think its much different now than in LCM days. I can't say one way or the other, as I haven't been there in many years.

Welcome doreen, I still believe most of what was taught in PFAL , yet do acknowledge the actual errors. But those three teachings you mentioned were some real goodies of PFAL. Am thankful for VP teaching them.

I believe VP will have to answer to God for his sins. Just like you and me. Should we dismiss his sins today because love covers a multitude of sins? I certainly don't think we should MAGNIFY his sins, as some posters do. On the other hand, I have no problem with someone sharing their personal experience and letting us know their experience of VP. With that in mind, I believe folks shouldn't have a problem hearing something good about VP either. I do believe PRESSED DOWN and other Christians were motivated by the true love of God in twi. And as scripture says, just look at the fruit. At that point in time, twi wasn't a rotten group. Well, that was my experience anyway.

Oh man. Nah, I believe their hearts were right on on that one. That was a beautiful song. They were simply thankful and showing respect and thankfulness. Simple love. That's the way I see it. Oh btw, I'm truly Glad VP took a stand, too.

I disagree with you in part, I believe we WERE serving God too; but it really depended on the commitment of the individual making the decision. I can't say someone was involved ONLY through Wierwille worship; I can't know their thoughts. I assume (yeah, assume, because I can't know everything) that folks' primary motive was to serve God. I believe we were serving God and man. I can't believe that Pressed Down's dymanic songs and lyrics were inspired only through glassy-eyed cultish Wierwille worship. Dynamic

Of course, comparing a fascist military dictatorship with a Christian ministry makes a great deal of sense.

which implies that the participants didn't freely choose to participate. We were hijacked. We were kidnapped ... from true Christianity into Wierwille's counterfeit. yada yada yada

Well, it was like that for ME anyway. I have to assume that folks hung around so long because they were pleased, as well. Actions speak louder than words.

It certainly was. I truly believe it was the communication of the truth and accuracy of the word, like we never heard it before, and mixed with lots of love, that inspired us to walk in love, joy, peace and excitement and thus, produced fruit like this. Were these guys inspired like this before twi? I trow not. I believe VPW's believing and teaching helped to encourage fruit like this. The distinguishing between what exists today and what existed in the past is appreciated and worth noting. Whatever becomes of twi now and in the future, I believe it was once a terrific place to be.

Here's another oldiesman oldie but goldie original: :D

Please don't let it die. :D There are some oldies but goodies there. Here's one from 2002: A poster commented: I answered:

Bluzeman & Larry, thanks for the support. I think the folks who accuse me of calling posters liars are taking my posts/opinions way too seriously. They must have a lot of spare time on their hands. Not that I don't. :D

A good cigar.

Thanks Bluzeman, I appreciate the support. I can't remember whether someone was called a liar by me or I believed they were lying. I forgot the context, it was probably very long ago. I do believe some posters are great at spinning, like Wordwolf. :D Is evil surmising a form a lying? I don't know, perhaps. I DO believe some posters are great at surmising evil. Thinking the worst about twi and ignoring everything else. Promoting the sins and faults of people (particularly male leaders) over everything else. Is that a form a lying? I don't know, perhaps. Is promoting factual information that is all one-sided a form of lying? This is what Dr. Juedes does on his website. Is that lying? I don't know, it is interesting. I suppose if someone says that twi is lying when they promote only positives about their group, someone else may come along and say that Dr. Juedes is lying when he promotes only negatives about twi. Seems like a fair assessment to me.

Blue Ridge Mountains? Shenandoah River? :D All the times I visited West Virginia on my bike, I loved the place. I want to go back in the fall and see the leaves.

From what I've heard, there is plenty of doubt. Unless you knew Don Wierwille and knew what happened behind the scenes or knew someone who knew what happened behind the scenes, you don't know the stow-ray. Best not to speculate. I also heard that Dr. Wierwille offered Dr. Don to be the president of the ministry first, before Craig, and Don turned that offer down. Have a wonderful weekend, one and all!

The way it was explained to me: she worked her way in, first becoming very close friends with Donna, then in the early 1990's, Craig started seeking more & more counsel from Donna & Rosalie and Don & Howard were gradually being moved out of the picture. Over time, Craig was virtually ignoring Don & Howard and Donna & Rosalie were basically running the show as his assistants. It was after that and she was the next in line.

I agree with your additions. It makes sense. I believe God wants all of us to follow him and his word with love as the motivation, because we choose to, not because we are being forced to or told to.

But I wouldn't be afraid of going back and checking them out to see what is happening. Would you?

Right. Twi doesn't have a website as Dr. Juedes, for example, devoted to condemning a particular religion and / or presenting a disparaging view of a group. If it had one, well, you could condemn it if you want.

My commitment is not where it should be, I guess. :D

Mo, I agree with your above statement , which is what VPW taught in PFAL and I think he handled it pretty well.

If they asked, and fixed a few things. Yes. First thing they have to fix, is get a fellowship near my house, not 2 hours away. :D

Bolshevik, were you one of the children of twi that had no choice but to be there? If so, then you have legitimate victim status! Kind of reminds me of my time in the church of my youth. I had no choice... my parents said I had to go, so I went. :D I guess I'm defending my perceptions and experience of twi. My own opinions. Everyone has them, and of course, you have a right to defend yours. But, I am sorry you had no "good times" in twi. I wish you did. I wish you were never involved and I'm sure Dr. Wierwille wished the same. I believe he didn't want folks to be there who didn't want to be.