waysider

You can continue to disbelieve it if you choose. No one can force you to accept that it's true. Fact is, though, "date and switch" was actually quite commonplace, especially whenever and wherever there were quotas to be met. (It wasn't called "date and switch" at the time.) You need not look any farther than the pages of GSC to find firsthand testimony to that effect. I, myself, am a product of it. You say you never personally witnessed it being used. I have no reason to disbelieve your experience. One thing you should take into consideration is that you only saw a very small part of what took place. Yes, I understand that three *tours of duty*, so to speak, may seem like a lot, but it only represents a tiny fraction of what went on. In regard to the physical violence you experienced, I'm sorry you were treated that way . No one deserves to have that happen to them. Again, I understand you never personally saw it, but there was plenty of physical violence, along with psychological abuse in The Way. In fact, there are even documented cases of murder (yes, murder) that happened on the W.O.W. field. Additionally, there was a lot of domestic violence, child abuse and sexual abuse that, although not directly sanctioned by The Way, was an indirect product of some of the distorted doctrines and lifestyle promoted by the organization. Wierwille , himself, is known to have drugged and then raped many young women at HQ and other locations. Some have come forth to give their testimony here. One has even written a book that you can read about on the front page of this site. You may not realize it, but VPW had thug-like bodyguards to insure his safety. One top leader even kept a gun in the teaching podium at HQ in case trouble should erupt during Sunday Night Service. You can read about these things on the front page of this site, also, from firsthand witnesses. Like yourself, many people are overwhelmed, flabbergasted to learn of these things for the first time. Much of it has been swept under the rug for a very long time. It's a lot to take in all at once. The purpose of GSC is to expose these ugly truths to the light of day for all to see. Click HERE for "Through The Fog". Click HERE for "Losing The Way".

He that complies against his will Is of his own opinion still Which he may adhere to, yet disown, For reasons to himself best known. Samuel Butler (1612-1680) 17th-century poem Hudibras. Part III, Canto iii, lines 547-550

If I had family still in, I would want them to leave of their own accord. Coercion to leave doesn't address the real problem of distorted thinking and unwillingness to think critically. If they are physically removed (willfully or forcibly) and retain the same mentality, there is limited benefit, at best. For starters, one of the most harmful doctrines The Way has promoted is the concept of magic thinking, otherwise known as the law of believing. (In the original PFAL class, it was called "magic thinking" or something similar.) Simply stated, it involves convincing oneself that they have the ability to change things in the physical world by simply using thoughts to think them into or out of existence. The Way is certainly not the only place this doctrine is promoted but my personal experience has been with The Way so I'll limit my remarks to that effect. My personal experience includes cases of people dying because they tried to believe their way out of situations that required serious medical intervention. It also includes watching people live with painful, unnecessary guilt, thinking it was their believing that caused bad things to happen or hindered good things from happening. I don't want to run this discussion off track. If anyone cares to further pursue a discussion of the law of believing, there are many existing threads that can be revisited using the search feature. Or, by starting a new thread on the subject. In summary: Would I want them out?......yes Would I force the issue?....No

"....an exodus of 2" Sounds more like an escape.

Witnessing was, in essence, an advertising campaign for PFAL. The Witnessing and Undershepharding class explicitly states that "The purpose of witnessing is to get people into the Power For Abundant Living Class." If I had my syllabus here, I could give you the exact page where that's stated. So, clearly, from the corporation's viewpoint, growth was measured by new sales/enrollments. When that growth was not taking place, TWI redefined the meaning of growth by cooking the books.

Thank you It's much easier and more inviting to read it this way.

Thus, following TWI logic, growth = attrition.

Maybe Way Productions will perform at the Sunday Night Service.

So, then, granting sexual favors for a chance of getting the recipient to enroll in PFAL is OK because they might get "delivered"? Now who's talking about "whoring for Jesus"???

post #23: "Not once in the 18 years I was in twi did I ever hear any leader promote this "whoring for Jesus" strategy." post#29: (same poster) "Of course I've heard of it. Even David Craley in his book 'In search of the light;the hope of glory' said he kind of got witnessed to that way. Eew. Even the 5th WC principle, make your physical body as dynamic as possible, whatever, could be inferred as that, couldn't it?"

Whether it has or hasn't certainly makes for an interesting discussion topic. However, it belongs somewhere other than GSC. Now, if you're talking about the bicentennial takeover fervor that swept The Way or the now famous Y2K, Mal-Pack fiasco, it might have a place here.

Every situation is different, of course. Sometimes subjects become inextricably woven together. In general, though, I would think such a discussion would not be relevant to the purpose of GSC, which is to expose a side of The Way that might otherwise go unknown. At one time we had a political forum on GSC. For a variety of reasons, it was necessary to eliminate that forum.

First, I didn't call it "whoring for Jesus" or say that it was promoted by leaders (though sometimes it was.). What I said was this: .....and yet, it was commonplace in The Way's halcyon days for women (and sometimes men) to use physical attraction to lure new recruits into the fold, some even offering sexual favors in exchange for a Green Card commitment. Once the new recruit was hooked, the Way-promoting believer would move on to another prospective recruit. It was the Way's version of bait and switch, sometimes referred to as date and switch. I guess it's only considered a "distraction" if it leads people AWAY, rather than TO the organization. I assure you date and switch is real. It's how I and some of the other posters here wound up in the PFAL class. Does anyone besides The Way use sex to market their product? Of course. Here's what bothers me, though. First, you misrepresent it and claim you never heard of it, implying it didn't happen. Then, you turn right around and imply it would be OK if it did because other people use sex to sell their products, anyhow. If you think it was wrong, just say so. Don't pretend you never heard of it or that it would be OK to "jump off the bridge" because all the other kids are doing it. Date and switch was used on me. I said it, you read it. Now you can't say you never heard of it.

Back in the early 1970's there was actual growth taking place in Cleveland. Despite that, the phony "twig split" thing still took place, making it appear that a branch had grown from X twigs to X2 twigs. Looking back, I think some of that may have been the result of local leaders trying to pad their resumes to ensure acceptance into the Corps. (The Corps was new at that time so just being accepted into the program was seen as a major personal accomplishment.)

Allan We eliminated the political forum here because it became too burdensome to manage. Plus, the original and current concept of GSC is to have a venue where the darker side of The Way can be exposed and discussed openly. Don't despair, though. There are lots and lots of other places on the web to discuss political matters.

I doubt it. From what I understand, you have to be scrutinized closely before you're allowed access to the holy grounds. Whatever became of "You're always welcome at The Way."?

.....and yet, it was commonplace in The Way's halcyon days for women (and sometimes men) to use physical attraction to lure new recruits into the fold, some even offering sexual favors in exchange for a Green Card commitment. Once the new recruit was hooked, the Way-promoting believer would move on to another prospective recruit. It was the Way's version of bait and switch, sometimes referred to as date and switch. I guess it's only considered a "distraction" if it leads people AWAY, rather than TO the organization.

What do they call it now? MDTC (Money Down The Crapper)

The link was intended as a joke. Some find it funny, others find it offensive. Whatever. It wasn't intended to be a launching pad for political discourse. There is no shortage of other places on the web to voice political opinions.

It's a correlation that doesn't exist. This is a discourse that took place between two individuals in Australia. It doesn't involve either government. The second statement (Thanks to "political correctness", our once treasured concept of free speech is down the toilet.) is a non-sequitur, seemingly inserted with the sole intention of eliciting political controversy.

Spiritual growth: What's that supposed to mean, anyways? (I mean in a Biblical context.)

I though maybe you "took a wrong turn and just kept going".

"- some of that early stuff was really good." I agree. The Singing Ladies, on the other hand...... :(

Ironically, this very subject is what brought me here to GSC. I used to lend out various PFAL materials to people I witnessed to. More often than not, they were not returned. I expected that. I never told people about twig fellowships. That ship had sailed for me. I had stockpiled several PFAL books but the last one went AWOL so I got online to seek out a replacement. Several clicks later, I somehow stumbled into GreaseSpot Cafe and was astonished by what I began to read..... I no long need that PFAL book, by the way.

When I became involved with The Way (1972), young people were disillusioned with the formality of mainstream religion. A lack of dress code appealed to the younger crowd. Bell bottoms, tie dyes, long hair, it was all cool at Way fellowships. It was part of the draw. Two, three years later, there we were, looking for all the world like Wall St. wannabe's, complete with three piece suits and briefcases. How it happened, I'm not sure. I just know that one day, a few years after I took the class, I looked in the mirror and wondered how in the world I ended up in a strange city, living a life I had never aspired to before my involvement. It was the beginning a surrealistic awakening. The relinquishment of individuality and pressure to conform were definitely factors in it.