waysider

"Many others, who died prematurely, were car accidents. I certainly don't want to paint these deaths with a broad brush, but how many were distracted or a result of sleep deprivation?" I remember such an incident in about 1980 or so. It made the local news. It seems the driver and her children, along with another adult passenger, perished in a horrible car accident, leaving ROA on their way out WOW. They were reported to have been extremely tired, having just completed WOW training. I think her name was Dondie something, though I'm not sure. It was a long time ago. I might have my details all wrong. I hope someone knows the accurate facts. I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned on GSC before.

#4. Study The Word much. What you can know by the five senses, God expects you to know. Proverbs 29:18. II Timothy 2:15 Proverbs 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (KJV) Do you see any connection between this scripture and the so-called key? Yeah. Me neither. II Timothy 2:15 Work hard so you can present yourself to God and receive his approval. Be a good worker, one who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly explains the word of truth. (NLT) Again. What does this have to do with walking in the spirit? Even worse. In The Way, we took II Timothy 2:15 out of context and used it to "prove" our purpose is to: 1. Study, (so we can) 2. Rightly divide The Word. The context of this particular section of scripture is not at all saying that. 14 Remind them of these things, (the things listed in verses 1-13) and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness (ESV) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, look back at the original wording of key #4, compare it to the gist of the scriptural references and decide if the two are incongruous or not. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ edit: I also recall being taught (Advanced Class?) that God won't give you revelation if it's about something in The Word that you should already know from studying. Well, that makes perfect sense---- if your purpose in stating it is to give veracity to the "key". But, here's the kicker. It's also saying that the MORE *Word* you know, the LESS revelation you'll receive. Kinda like opposite day. So, you would do well to disregard this key if you ever hope to receive revelation. :blink:

Several people here, including myself, have tried to verify his academic credentials. Might as well be searching for the abominable snowman. I'm not sure what that has to do with keys to walking by the spirit other than casting an ominous cloud over his credibility on the matter.

You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you? :B)

Yep. The focal point of session 7.

It was pretty much business as usual in The Way to add a scripture to what ever point you were making. Give it some semblance of credibility. 1. Eat more Brussels sprouts for added spiritual enlightenment. **a. John 11:35

"See you at twig.......and don't be late" Can I help with refreshments? I know how to stretch coffee.

You're welcome, Steve. WordWolf posted them in another thread a couple days ago, as well. I remember being at the Advanced Class and thinking, "Really?? That's it??" It was very disappointing and anticlimactic, to say the least. What it all boiled down to was: Read the Bible. Speak in tongues. Practice the law of believing. Follow Way leadership and doctrine with unwavering loyalty. Well, a lot of us did that anyway. How did that turn out? :(

From pg. 10 1. To receive revelation you must first become meek. 2. Stand fast on what you have received. God will not tell you a second time until you obey the first. 3. Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation. 4. Study The Word much. What you can know by your five senses God expects you to know. 5. Travel light. 6. Action precedes results. Believing without works in not believing. 7. Wait until "green light" revelation, ..a.Doodle. ..b. Pace the floor. ..c. Pray, sing or just wait. 8. Do not tell all you know. Receive the Word of Wisdom. 9. It may be essential to put unbelievers out of the room. 10. Inspired action and inspired utterance may be essential. ..a. Never contradicts The Word. 11. Do not be deceived by the five senses. 12. Do not argue with God. 13. Revelation once given may change. (God changes the revelation after the circumstances change.) 14. Revelation given twice is established. 15. Watch and be ready. Revelation may come at the most likely or unlikely places and times. 16. When you stumble, pick yourself up. Walking involves a learning process.

Here's how it appears on pg. 10 of the syllabus: Revelation once given may change. (God changes the revelation after the circumstances change.) Revelation given twice is established. There are scripture references given. They are all OT.

"He was a mean man."

Have we considered that the prophesy may have been ex post facto (after the fact)? For instance, I hereby prophesy that America will someday have a black president. What? It's already happened? I must be a prophet.

For new arrivals: In case you're new to this site or have had limited exposure to the contents, here's a brief explanation of why Wierwille's originality raises concern. Wierwille was a con man. Yeah, I know, that's cold. Sometimes the truth ain't pretty. What he did was take the works of other ministers and pretend they were his own. Sometimes he copied whole paragraphs, word for word. Sometimes he copied whole books. It wasn't just ordinary, run of the mill plagiarism, though. He pretended to get his information directly from God. He even concocted a surrealistic snowstorm story, complete with God speaking audibly to him, to add an air of mystique. Even today, decades and decades later, there are still people who are convinced he was the real deal. I guess I can sort of understand their reluctance to accept the reality of what happened. Admitting the man was a fraud means you have to admit you fell for his scam. That's embarrassing, to say the least. If it makes you feel any better, I'll admit I was sucked into his game as well. Well, at least there were WOW burgers to be had. Weren't they just the best?

I don't recall this one at all. I do, however, remember VPW preaching, at the Advanced Class, from what we now know, thanks to the internet, to be an Oral Roberts sermon known as The Fourth Man. It contains the now famous Red Thread. As was typical of Wierwille, he gave no indication it was not his own work. Here is Here is .

"Heck, I'm sure that I wasn't the ONLY ONE who stood at the roa and wondered WHY WIERWILLE WAS STANDING AT THE MICROPHONE DICTATING ADV CLASS GRADS TO COME FORWARD AND MINISTER HEALING TO OTHERS??? " Count me in as being among the others who wondered. We had been taught that if God wanted you to do something, He would tell you first, not someone else. I wasn't getting any "cookie from the cookie jar", as the saying goes, so I didn't report for duty. When the service was over, I second guessed myself. Had I been wrong to defy the Man of God? What if someone suffered needlessly because I had lingered in the crowd? I carried that guilt and self-doubt for a long, long time until I came to GSC and began to see what really happened.

"And further.....since NO ONE could question wierwille's "spirituality" we had to eat, sleep, and work alongside a corps guy who, supposedly, had some frikken spirits residing in his brain cells. hahahahahaha" ....and speaking of devil spirits: HERE and HERE Soooo----According to the Advanced Class materials, we were either "studying at the feet" of a man possessed of devil spirits -or- he was wrong about this and could have been wrong about a lot of things. Oh, excuse me, did I say "COULD have been wrong"?

What I find more disturbing is the way he was able to successfully fake compassion and empathy.

Lots of missing "puzzle pieces" scattered throughout those threads. Sadly, some of the people on those threads have left the planet, as they say. Time waits for no one. For better or for worse, my life was changed forever, one summer night in 1972 (or was it 1971? I can never get that part straight.) I had some good times. I met some great people. We probably all did to some degree. I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if not for that fateful summer night. I'm sure it would have been different, much, much different.

ROA at the Allen County Fairgrounds----I think that's the one where VPW commanded all Advanced Class grads to the front of the stage for a healing service on closing night. He stood on stage, rambling on and on in his typical pontificating fashion, while the A.C.grads were to pick someone in need of deliverance and minister healing to them. He, himself, did nothing but stand before the microphone and babble. Now, there's some irony for you. Or was Lima the one that was a big bicentennial celebration (1976)? Anyone remember?

I wound up in the spiritual heart of the universe, Well, we do have a river that's been known to catch fire, so that's nice.

He prefaced that particular part of the class by saying "I can't give you a scripture reference, you'll just have to trust me." (paraphrased somewhat) Then, he implied heavily that he had gotten the information by revelation. <_< He also said that "Eve partook of the *fruit*". I know that's bound to get a few "ewwww!" responses but that's what he said. I have no idea what this has to do with Way Corps numbers but it seemed like we were on a roll.

As I said in an earlier post, I thought it was a good article. I had no problem with the contents. It's important, though, to cite sources or at least acknowledge that a piece is the work of someone else. Sorry for the derailment.

Yes, MRAP, that really happened the first year that ROA was at HQ. (not the original ROA weekend event in 1971) There were some pretty teed-off old people. It was certainly a very poor PR move.....and they talked about walking by revelation...

".....about two years earlier at a camp fire in NC vpw stated that the original sin by Adam was masturbation." Finally, I've *met* someone who heard the same teaching I did. I heard it in CF&S in about 1974. There was a bit more added to it, as well, by that time. "In all the hind sight I "believe" that twi wanted folks to fornicate within the fold and marry in order to increase the twi numbers: primarily that it would take both to agree to leave twi (one will always want to stay)or through offspring if both decide to stay." In FellowLaborers, we were not allowed to date outside the program and needed special permission to leave the compound for anything personal. It was never written or stated directly but we were expected to marry Way believers, preferably at the same level of commitment.(ie: advanced class grad, leadership program grad, etc.)

"Was that twi induced, maybe the former but the later was just plain a horney girl, IMHO." We were all young. I'm sure there was a lot of non-TWI initiated physical activity taking place, just like everywhere else in the world. I know for a fact, though, that many instances were TWI sanctioned and approved. When a young lady and her TWI leader fiancé hide their relationship from new recruits and conspire to get them to sign the green card by having the young lady lead the new recruits on romantically until the green card is signed (rinse and repeat), there isn't much doubt about what's going on. It went on a whole lot more than some people care to admit.