waysider

Cheeses haves cultures. The Way is pretty cheesy. So, yeah, I see a connection. (When "the big exodus" happened, would it be fair to say it was like someone cutting the cheese?)

Did you ever use your "free time" to catch up on marking your Bible? (HS/hs, dechomai/lambano, class notes, etc.) Just thinking about it makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.

Many husbands were negatively affected by this attitude as well. Suddenly, that guy who had been an easy going, compromising type of guy was expected to "grow a pair!" and be a domineering butt head. "Take Charge!" became the edict of the moment. Well, for many men, this sort of approach to marriage is contrary to their genuine personalities....or so a friend has told me.

There are 8 of them with med. schools in Ohio.

Lots of information.....most of it pedantic.

Life is seldom as straight forward as we would like it to be. Suppose there is someone at work you suspect of stealing. You have a pretty solid idea they are but you have no way to prove it. Then again, maybe you're mistaken. Maybe you've misinterpreted something. What do you do? Who do you tell? You certainly can't just blatantly accuse them. Do you approach a superior? Maybe the superior is part of the problem. Then what? This is the sort of scenarios that played out in The Way training programs. People who did speak out and seek advise from superiors were often quickly removed from the picture. It's really a false assumption that people didn't speak out. The "adultery paper" is but one example. So, you put those sort of thoughts on the back burner, and with little time for introspection, and in a state of constant sleep deprivation, they are eventually forgotten. These are some of the things that people don't always quite understand when they wonder why someone didn't "just say something".

Bingo! They owned us from 5 A.M. until midnight, almost 7 days a week. I say almost because we were allowed some personal time on Sundays to do laundry and similar things. There was precious little time for introspection.

From a FellowLaborers perspective: (We were also in an in-residence type, communal setting and were socially isolated from "outsiders".) For one thing, George, if you ever suspected something out of line was taking place, you had to be very, very, very careful about who you approached to discuss it. You were made to feel like you were at fault for even suspecting something might be amiss. "How dare you think such things about your brother or sister in Christ? You need to renew your mind and banish those thoughts." Even worse, admitting you have had such thoughts might get you accused of harboring devil spirits. Nobody wants to keep someone in the program if they have devil spirits. Know what I mean? So, part of it is a practice of denial in order to survive the environment. Looking back on my own experience, I feel somewhat foolish for denying the reality of things I saw that now are very obvious to me. I thought, at the time, that what I was seeing was a product of my unrenewed mind. That's what I was told by leadership. I was embarrassed to even admit the thoughts had crossed my mind. That's probably not a very good explanation but it's all I have at the moment. edit: I think this might be something like what happens when a rape victim tries to expose the evil deeds of someone who is held in high esteem. They become the bad person for trying to tarnish the reputation of someone who is beloved. Or so that's how it is often played out. So, they convince themselves that maybe silence is the best course of action. You are probably aware there is a high profile case similar to this that is getting quite a bit of news coverage at the moment.

I really just show up here for the cookies and coffee.

There's some kind of automatic moderation gizmo here that let's you know if you've said a bad word. Most of the time it works pretty well but it hasn't been perfected yet to the point of being able to wash your mouth out with soap.

I tend to agree. I don't think they were thinking into the deep future. They only saw as far as the next WOW year, Corps graduating class or however you want to categorize it. Damage control for the here and now. VP didn't really give a crap what would happen after he croaked. He had his cake and he ate it, too. Martinfail's problem was that he didn't really see the full scope of how the scam worked. Like a poker player who doesn't understand the nuances of bluffing. If I recall correctly, that was from a book that was endorsed by The Way and for sale at the bookstore. I know I read it but that's all that comes to mind. It was offered to us to prove that the RCC was corrupt. (Implication being that we were different/better)

Ya know, there's just a cruel (but laughable) irony to the whole absence of VP and the PLAF class. When we were "in", it was all that mattered to get that thing in front of people so's they could have that abundant life we were living..cough..Hell, people even died trying to make it happen. It was the most important thing in the world and now it's been stuck in the back of a closet and covered with moth balls. And, that's probably a good thing.

"Through coincidence I found out where a friend works the resident mental patient employee is signed up and has other mental patient grads love bombing them." Can you explain this? I didn't quite understand. (Maybe I need another quart of coffee to get me started.)

There are so many other groups promoting their ties to VPW and his so-called works, they really don't need to invite scrutiny. Here's an example from S.O.W.E.R.s website: Our foundations are rooted in the principles taught in the Power for Abundant Living series and the Way Corps principles as enumerated by Dr. Wierwille and George Jess. (You would think his own son and grandson would know he wasn't really a Dr., but I digress.) All they really need to do is go through the motions, pretend to be something they are not, and avoid unwanted controversy. The money is already "in the bank".

There's been a lot of examination, inspection given here at GSC over the past few years to the practice of tithing. Conclusion? It's a modern day "shtick", a sort of membership dues required by various organizations. Sure, it's recorded in the Old Testament that such a thing took place. There is no indication it's a Biblical requirement, continued into modern times. It's really more of a business requirement, a tax, if you prefer. Now, to be clear, tithing and freely giving are not synonymous. Tithing is giving 10%. That's what the word "tithe" means. In The Way, it was used as a method of extortion. "God can't bless you if you don't give what you already owe." One of their henchmen even went as far as to say that "God would't even spit in your direction for less than 15%". (sic) That doesn't sound too much like something that's freely given. It sounds like coercion. Hey! Wait a minute! It IS coercion!. Well, I'll be darned. (I'm not too keen on being spit on anyhow.) When I left The Way, it was quite a big deal for me. Where will I give? Surely I have to find a place to "abundantly share". If I don't, bad things could happen to me. I learned that in PFAL. Yep, two believers even got struck deader than a doorknob back in the records of ACTS because they didn't follow the rules.....What a load of nonsense. Give a nickel or give a million bucks. Or, don't give anything at all. It's up to you. Just bear in mind that you're not doing it to get blessed or whatever, you're doing it because you want to fund someone's business venture. That's what most of these spin-off ministries that require a tithe ABS are...business ventures. Here's principle #4 from the SOWERS website: 4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry. (Some of you may recognize that as a Way Corps principle. It was a FellowLaborers principle, too.) We now know that the "law of believing" is just a load of hogwash, so factor that "practice believing" part out. With that in mind, allow me to rephrase the principle in a way the will reflect it's literal meaning according to usage. Heh. 4.) GIVE to bring material abundance to the ministry. And there you have it. It's as simple as that. Churches (not just The Way or its various spin-offs) have to make you think God requires it. That's how they fund their organizations. (Well, that and Saturday night bingo.) That's why The Way was dead set against bakes sales, car washes and so on. It diluted the concept, weakened the mystique of their method. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

If your intuition or common sense told you it was foolish to allow certain people into your home, you were led to believe you were the one at fault for thinking negatively, entertaining devilish thoughts.That's contrary to the way it's supposed to work.

I can't quite put the joke together but I know the punchline should make reference to a batboy.

For those born into The Way, we might pose the question as "How was your identity SHAPED by The Way?"

Isolation was always a BIG part of how The Way instilled a dependence in its followers. Isolation can be mental, physical or both. For all practical purposes, you weren't really supposed to associate with outsiders unless it was for the purpose of bringing them into the fold. The "unequally yoked" scripture was invoked as a directive.

I knew as it was happening that my identity was changing. But, one of the dangers of the process is that you are coached to IGNORE the changes or, at least, minimize their importance. Remember the PFAL session where we're taught to eschew careful consideration? I think that was session #7. The one where VPW talked about the consequences experienced by Eve when she gave consideration to the serpents queries. "Having done all, STAND! Don't budge." I'm paraphrasing somewhat. In fact we were even encouraged, in classes like Renewed Mind and Dealing With The Adversary, to abandon our true selves in favor of a prescribed model. But, one day, I looked in the mirror and something profound happened. I began to question how I was looking at a completely different person than I had looked at only a few short years previously. Some people never bother to look too closely into that mirror. I can't tell you why. Maybe they're happy with the change they see. Maybe they don't see a change. Or, maybe it scares them to think they've lost themselves to a fantasy. I don't know. It all started for me in the summer of 1972. Finally, a mere 43 years later, I feel like I'm back to being my old self. It feels good.

Meh. They'd probably serve you stretched coffee in a reused styrofoam cup. I'll pass.

They make good ice scrapers.

I think he was responding to the post that asked (in jest) whether he was a poser or a loon.

VP simply parroted an idea that was launched by John Darby, in the 1830's.. Darby may not have been the first to present the concept but he is generally attributed as being the leading proponent. It encompasses the idea of various portions of the Bible being written to one group with the exclusion of another. It is not a Biblical concept, nor is there any scriptural documentation substantiating it. You said: "There are scriptures that blatantly contradict each other if they're addressed to the same people under the same rules." That's precisely what dispensationalism attempts to resolve. There are portions of scripture that plainly contradict each other. The only way to make them "fit" is to pretend that different administrations are subject to different rules. The problem with this is that it has no scriptural basis. You are perfectly free to think VP was "right about that one". However, you have not successfully demonstrated a basis for that opinion. edit: " ....that doesn't mean VP wasn't born again." I never raised that issue. Quite frankly, I couldn't care less if he was or wasn't. "Doesn't mean pfal wasn't teaching the word of God" PFAL was a conglomeration of the (uncredited) works of others , such as B.G. Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger and many others. There is no guarantee their works were correct or incorrect interpretations of the scriptures. edit#2: "In the grace administration...." The Bible talks about God's grace. It never talks about a "grace administration". That's a product of dispensationalism.

I'm so sorry, Dana. Such things should never have happened in an organization that was supposedly centered on God. Well, they never should have happened in ANY organization, for that matter. My hope for you is that reading and participating in GSC discussions will in some way help to fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle and bring you some comfort in knowing you aren't alone in this.