waysider

:offtopic:/> (or maybe not) Lind@r was the same. An expert on revelation and casting out spirits. "I could caste a spirit out of that guy easy enough . . . but I won't bother . . . it'll just jump right back in because he won't renew his mind." This quote is almost word for word from one of the classes. Not sure which one. (AC,RM or DWA) That's how insidious this stuff became. Linder was quoting something from a class as if it were an original thought he had.

This thread isn't about me nor is it about you. It's about a concept that was defined rather early in the discussion.

Fascinating.....and your scripture reference?

OK, so help me understand this. If I tell you VP was a serial rapist who drugged and then violated many of his female congregants your response would be that I should not condemn myself? That's certainly an unusual perspective. Oh, and that thing about the past not determining the future: Why do you suppose, then, employers run background checks on prospective employees? And, then there's this: "All thru twi I never let people mandate how I processed anything." Are you familiar with the expression "Can't see the forest for the trees."?

Through the Fog

This is why we needed Ambassador 1. (Just in case you ever wondered.) HERE edit: Be sure to watch the video clip.

It's really a twisted straw man argument of sorts. We all know you can't actually change the factual realities of what has already taken place. We can't dispute that point. So, because they know you can't dispute that, (whether consciously or not) they intend to divert your attention from acknowledging and learning from the past and from changing your perception of the past. They make the argument about "change" when really it's about acknowledgement, etc. It's used as a type of rationalization.

Is THIS his symbol? edit: (Arsenic)

Honestly, I don't know what I would say. If it were just myself I might say or do something. Unfortunately, when I was involved, I had a lot of interwoven relationships that would have been affected by anything I did or said. That would have factored into what I would do. Plus, he was known to surround himself with thugs people who could protect him from adversity and danger. So, it might have been hard to actually get close enough to him to take any action.

Fundamentalist groups, such as The Way, would more than likely turn your statement around to read, "I can't really see any way to distinguish schizophrenia from what the Bible calls being demonized.".......for whatever that thought is worth.

"There's no...CLAP! CLAP!...two ways about it when you labor for the Lord. His way is the only way. None other can you afford." C'mon everybody, sing with me! edit: Was that too obtuse? My point is that singing and group participation can be effective tools of persuasion when used correctly, especially if the message has black or white connotations..

Like ?

Sorry, I misunderstood. I think I know what you are talking about, though, especially when it comes to the *manifestations*. In a way, it reminds me of a Peter Sellers film called Being There. In the film, the main character is mentally challenged but very articulate though no one is aware of his true nature. People mistake his simplistic answers as being profound and allegorical because they think he speaks with authority and appears to have credibility.

Making stuff up: VPW was fond of doing that. Like the now famous blizzard story. Back then, it was easy to fool us with this stuff. Now, with the internet at our fingertips, you can actually look up all sorts of wacky facts like, you know..... weather reports.

Good point. How are we supposed to learn from the past if we never remember it?

The Way frequently employed this tactic to deny people the necessary opportunity to grieve, as well. To be fair, The Way is not the only organization that does this. However, we're not really talking about what other groups do or have done, we're talking specifically about The Way. Many years ago, I needed time and space to grieve the loss of a close friend. I was told I couldn't change what had happened and that I needed to move on immediately. After leaving the cemetery, having served as a pall bearer, I went straight to the next session of Dealing With The Adversary, at the urging of leadership. They told me I needed to put the past behind me and move forward right away. No time to cry over what can't be changed. "Word over the World must take precedence over all else", they told me. "Emotions are the devil's way of tricking me out of staying focused", they said. As you said, you can't change the factual realities of the past but you can change the way it is interpreted. I was manipulated into relinquishing a grieving process that I really needed. Shame on them for promoting this nonsense. And, shame on me for listening to them.

Amazing, isn't it? We bought into this nonsense while, at the same time, we followed a guy who was the poster child for devil possession. I'm curious how Way people explain the incongruity today.

"To "escape" a cult you need to play things close to your chest. I think secrecy plays a huge part to establishing new networks, support, and a new life. I don't blame people for not coming forward, or never coming forward (as was mentioned in the article). Hindsight 20/20, I would have been a lot more secretive with people outside TWI. (My mind was focused on pushing TWI away.) Even casually mentioning TWI to "outsiders" was a mistake." In retrospect, I can understand this and agree 100%. I've even heard of (non-cult related) people inventing whole, new, innocuous personal histories to mask embarrassing baggage. I don't blame them at all. It's nobody's business but their own.

I knew a guy who had one of THESE but he couldn't make the payments and it got re-possessed. (Not really, just kiddin'.)

I wonder. Have they ever done a side-by-side comparison of VP's behavior with the Advanced Class teachings on that subject? (pg.12-24, in particular) It would probably scare the beejeebers out of them if they truly believe what they profess to believe..

Much the same argument could be made regarding people who, by no fault of their own, have family ties to people who have committed heinous crimes against society. It's unfortunate and we can empathize with them but we can't change the reality of history to accommodate them. edit: I know that sounds cold but it is what it is.

"Many of us left so thus, our kids were not forced to join to twi." The person who started this thread was born into and raised in The Way. There was no option other than to become part of the environment, willingly or otherwise. Much of what you see in this thread is tempered with that reality.

Where are these examples I'm just not "getting"? My personal beliefs have no bearing on your lack of ability to produce specific examples.

Sometimes it's hard to hop on that cognitive dissonance bandwagon all by yourself. You need a caring soul to help you climb on board.

Exactly. This is the stage where cognitive dissonance really kicks into high gear.