waysider

"Fellow Laborers weren't controlled much at first" ................................... I think that is relative to the state you were in. I graduated from the Ohio program. (FLO #4/1975-1977) It was highly controlled. Our azzes belonged to The Way from 5AM until the lights went out at Midnight.

"Always an excuse as to why the promised result won't be found. Never a hint of expectation that it will be." Like an Elusive Butterfly.

This whole conversation reminds me of the old song, .You can twist the logic thirteen ways till Thursday but when the dust settles, you're still not your own Grandpaw.

"By the definition in the Bible of SIT, you can include extinct languages." ...................................................................... That's quite a stretch from the record in Acts where the listeners understood the speakers. How did they understand if the languages being spoken were extinct?

....the glossolalist puts a lot of effort into making SIT sound like a language. ............................................................ In a nutshell, that's the purpose of excellor sessions.

I'm proposing that they can't identify language from phenomic makeup beyond the languages which they are fluent in or have significant exposure to. I'm also proposing that for extinct languages, there are NO linguists that can do this as they don't have a catalog of known phenomic samples of the actual language being spoken in any form. What?? Of course it's possible. That's what cryptographers do on a routine basis. A linguist might simply need to enlist the services of a cryptographer.

They're not all really presidents but THIS should serve as a good lesson.

JFK

"a glossa is never a human language" Chock This was stated in a context that was specifically referencing modern examples. I don't think it was ever meant as a reference to Acts 2....I'm just sayin'.

Now is a brain scan I would really like to see.

Toss some excellor session type exercises into the mix, too. That might add a whole other element to the study.

Absolutely. I would love to see a study that compares the two activities, along with a similar study of TIP and prophesy. Along with that, if someone did some mathematical mapping of the above, it would make for some fascinating reading, as well.

"The musical improviser first has to think of what sound could come next, make a lightning-quick decision as to whether that sound follows harmoniously or melodically, rule it in or out on that basis, and then hurry up and play it." This is very true when you are in your early stages of learning to improvise. After you get a few miles behind you, though, you start to just let it flow, disregarding the potential for mistakes. I think this is sort of what happened for many people in session 12. Somewhere deep inside the brain, there is still information being processed (in both musical improv. and SIT) but it becomes more of what people call second nature. That's where I can see these brain scan type studies helping us better understand how we think and process information.

I couldn't agree with you more. Before I became involved with The Way, I had worked (with mild success) as a musician and actor. They "broke" my creative spirit. I've tried many times to rekindle it, mostly through improvisational music, but, my success has been limited. It's no surprise to me now that speaking in tongues seemed so easy at the time.

Oh, there was a seemingly endless list of musicians we were to avoid for that very reason. They were either "possessed" or "born of the wrong seed". That was part of the driving force behind Uncle (he wasn't MY uncle) Harry Day.

People frequently perceive speaking in tongues to be originating from a source outside themselves. Seeing how the ability to think critically is diminished during the process gives me a deeper understanding of why it might be perceived that way. That's part of the value of this study....a more comprehensive appreciation of the mechanics involved. .......................................................... At one time, the general thinking in Way Theology was that the only way a person could improvise music with high levels of fluency was if a devil spirit was directing the process. It wouldn't surprise me to find this thinking persists in Way circles.

Newberg is not the only one to measure functions (indirectly via blood flow, using MRI), with a view toward understanding brain activity during creative processes

"...... unless the language is understood, there is no way an independent researcher COULD distinguish it from made-up sounds. Unless is was obvious gibberish, which WAS able to be detected." ............................................................................ This conflicts with Newberg's study of blood flow during glossolalia, in which it was demonstrated that finite changes take place during speaking in tongues.. (University of Pennsylvania, 2006) http://www.amebrasil.org.br/html/Newberg2006.pdf

There, now wasn't that easy? http://rlv.zcache.com/clean_sweep_mug-p168817061761312581enw9p_400.jpg

Here is an interesting, though somewhat lengthy, article on glossolalia. Page four offers some insightful information on free vocalization, while not actually using that specific terminology. (For some reason, I'm not able to cut and paste.) http://www.psihijatrija.com/bibliografija/radovi/Koic%20E%20GLOSSOLALIA%20COLLEGIUM.pdf

Your video will begin in 17 seconds.

I wouldn't even need for anyone to identify the language. I would be satisfied if someone could simply verify that it IS a language...any language. (Along with the usual qualifiers, such as no previous exposure to the language, etc.)

It might be a tumor.

We haven't discussed yet how Wierwille mangled dechomai and lambano to validate speaking in tongues. Do we want to go there?