waysider

You mean like trying to tell a fake three dollar bill from a real one?

I don't think we would have been nearly as successful if we hadn't believed the lie ourselves. And, it's a snowball effect. They, in turn, believed it to be real and were thus able to attain a level of success, as well.......etc.

I'm not so sure, Raf, Wierwille said the Christ in us was like a "spiritual" baby. Speaking in tongues was like feeding it spiritual mashed potatoes .....sooooo.... we just had to speak in tongues a lot to make it grow big and strong. Lo shanta goo goo gah gah *burp*

Badges Proof? We don't need no stinking badges proof.

If it's a "language" of angels, why doesn't it have syntax and follow the conventions of "language" that we've come to expect?

"You move your tongue, you move your lips, you make the sounds, you put your left foot in, you put your left foot out...." At what point does this cease to be a conscious effort on the part of the speaker??

correction: In post #22, I said SIT decreases your sense of self. In actuality, the studies show it INCREASES your sense of self in relation to the world. Maybe that explains why we thought we were on some sort of mission to save the world/stand in the gap and all that sort of thing.

"this in your bible none of it is holy" I think I see your point.

Maybe. But, if it's a "language", shouldn't it have , at least, an identifiable structure? Buildings have identifiable structure....wood, bricks, screws, windows, shingles and so on, organized in a logical fashion. But,you can't just toss all those things in a big old pile and call it a house.

Not only does it not produce a verifiable language, it lacks the syntax and semantics (linguistic structure) that is found in genuine languages. I think that is really a crucial point to consider. ......................................... Linguistics The syllables that make up instances of glossolalia typically appear to be unpatterned reorganizations of phonemes from the primary language of the person uttering the syllables; thus, the glossolalia of people from Russia, the United Kingdom, and Brazil all sound quite different from each other, but vaguely resemble the Russian, English, and Portuguese languages, respectively. Many linguists generally regard most glossolalia as lacking any identifiable semantics, syntax, or morphology. SOURCE

Steve HERE is another article that lists an abundance of citations. This article strongly suggests that speaking in tongues is a learned behavior and, as such, is greatly influenced by the community and culture in which it exists. There is a section in the article that describes an incident in which a group of people were led into tongues. It bears a striking resemblance to session #12 of PFAL.

"It would help me if you could give me some specific references to the studies so I can consider their impact on my thesis." Here ya go, Steve. This is the most often cited study but, there are many other academic pieces on the subject, as well. HERE

Here's a (rhetorical) thought. If SIT/TIP/Prophesy is as important as we've been led to believe, why is there so little information about it in the scriptures?

The best lie you can tell is always the one you believe yourself.

Remember how we were never, ever supposed to speak in tongues just to demonstrate to someone? "Hey, Fred,Check this out..... Lo Shanta La ....." Nope ..never supposed to do it in any way shape or form that hadn't been authorized by official Way doctrine. What was that about? What was supposed to happen if we did?

I see these old guys (older than me! :o ) on the evening news, talking about how they were swindled out of their life savings. It must be embarrassing. So, why do they do it? I don't know. Maybe it gives them a feeling of reprieve to acknowledge it's the swindler who has done something wrong, not them.

I'm with you on the first part. I have to disagree with you on this: "I don't think it can be proven that SIT is fake." It can and has been proven that SIT (as defined within the parameters of Way Theology) is "fake". Scientific studies have demonstrated that, when one is engaged in glossolalia, measurable, physiological changes take place in the portions of the brain associated with speech and critical thinking. These changes are temporary and cause no damage, in and of themselves. But, think about it. Why would God need to alter physiological processes to facilitate a spirit-to-spirit discourse? What happened to The Great Principle (ie: spirit can only talk to spirit)? What about free will? If you're not the one freely controlling it, someone else must be, making free will a moot point. ergo>>>>>>It's fake.

God told me you would say that.

Ummmmmm.....You do realize you're just parroting Wierwille, don't you? Is there someplace in the Bible that corroborates that thought?

Twin talk (idioglossia) might sound like speaking in tongues but, that's about as far as the similarity goes. The brain activity involved in twin talk and speaking in tongues is not the same.

The good news is, it's only temporary if you want it to be. That is, unless you've taken session #7 too much to heart. (That's the one where we're told to never, ever even consider other viewpoints.) Just continue to "STAND!". Then, no amount of logic or reason will be able to persuade you otherwise .

Speaking in tongues can't hurt you. That's a proven fact. But, consider this: Unlike meditation, when you speak in tongues, you temporarily relinquish a portion of your ability to think and question critically. You temporarily lose some of your sense of self. Now add that to the concept of a lift list and the camera analogy. You are focusing on something specific while losing some of your sense of self and critical thinking abilities. Here's an example: Picture Wierwille giving a successful and stirring presentation while you are speaking in tongues. (In other words, lift Wierwille.) What happens? Your mind begins to delude itself with the false image of Wierwille you created. Voila! Years go by and you still have this fairytale image of what Wierwille must have really been like. Well, that's my theory. But, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

What does that tell us? Something was going on. It wasn't what Wierwille taught. It wasn't what was going on at the Brownsville revival. But something WAS going on. What was it? Well, maybe it was glossolalia. It had been around a long time before Pentecost.

When I took acting classes, we did an exercise that wasn't very different than an excellor session. "Make up a language and sell me this prop."