waysider

If you're stating that as an opinion, that's fine. However, if you're presenting that as a statistic, you'll need to cite a source. I'm puzzled why you think VPW would develop a class that was "99% aimed at married couples who weren't having sex" at a time when the ministry was comprised, to a high degree, (IMO) of young single people.

I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

Would your mother have approved of it? No, she didn't.

Fox-Trot or Polka?

Who's stopping you?

The secret chamber pot in PFAL

Another twisted interpretation of my statement. Now let's discuss that point, shall we? Maybe no one will notice it's a diversion from the original topic.

You are clearly remembering a much different survey. Even with just "x"s, as you say, it would definitely be possible to determine authorship by virtue of response. Class lists were kept to validate Advanced Class eligibility. It's been stated here, by first hand participants, that the Way Corps "Birth To Corps' papers were not held in confidence. None of this excuses such a sorry example of a "class" that was supposed to be part of a Biblical research and teaching effort.

Another strawman. The essence of what was being stated was that the questions sought specific personal information regarding sexual activity.. The exact verbiage of each question is irrelevant to the larger context.

Two pages or two hundred pages. It's a moot point. People, outside of that isolated Way Corps class, sat through a class that used a two page "syllabus". That is the class that is being referenced in this discussion. If you want to debate the value of the materials in the other 34 pages, by all means, start another thread and do so. Your continuation of the page count discussion is a distraction from the heart of this thread.

I have seen someone post a copy of a survey that was supposedly the one you are referring to. The one they posted was NOT the one that was used in the classes I was involved with. Your description is more in agreement with the one I remember, questions about sexual history, homosexuality, abuse, etc. As to where they went: We were supposed to put them into an envelope immediately, without looking at the responses, seal it, and send it to HQ. I always did exactly that. I can't answer for anyone else on that matter. What became of them once they reached HQ is a valid question. I wish I knew. edited to add this: Yes, they were anonymous but HQ had a list of students in every class. They had to keep that for determining eligibility for the Advanced Class. So, suppose you had a class of 10 people, 7 were female , 5 of them were married and, of the two remaining single women, only one went into the Way Corps. I think you can do the math.

That's one of the real dangers of isolationism/insulationism. It's part of why parents try to keep their kids from getting mixed up with the wrong crowd. There's no outside reference to gauge reality. I'm sure as a former FLO, you probably remember how we lived in our own little world out there in the middle of Podunk, USA. No phones, no TVs, no newspapers, no real contact with the outside world except for our 9-5 secular jobs. And even that was isolated because we weren't supposed to be there to benefit ourselves. We were supposed to witness to co-workers and turn the leads over to local twigs. We were supposed to be going to those jobs as representatives of The Way. If the jobs provided limited opportunities to do so or conflicted with FLO scheduling, we were supposed to move on. We were being used as unwitting drones in wierwille's business endeavor. So, yes, I can certainly "relate" to this sort of mind set.

That's a real can of worms. Apart from an obvious sidetrack into a discussion of abortion itself, there are many first hand testimonies here of people who can cite personal experiences of how the "options" were presented. For many, there are painful memories that they may not want to share again. In other words, TWI did not always "support" a right to choose between full term and abortion.

That's a bona fide gem, Steve!

You neglected to end your statement with proper punctuation. Should we debate about how that affects the validity of your post?

I'm looking at a two page "syllabus" that I used as a class instructor on the field. It consists of one page that has a handful of rather general scripture references and another that is titled Forty Things About A Virtuous Woman. It details Proverbs 31:10-31. If, indeed, this "syllabus" is for the same class that received a 36 page treatment in the Corps, it brings a whole new element to the discussion. How "anonymous" could those sexuality surveys have remained in a closed corporation setting such as the Corps?

Did you personally participate in that "identical" class? A yes or no will do quite nicely.

What?---one had two pages of mainly scripture references and the other had 36 pages. Sounds like a different class to me. I suggest you start a new thread and explain why one needed 2 pages and the other needed 36 if they were identical. Better yet, let's leave it here and descend into a quibble over how many pages the syllabus had while completely ignoring the content of the class being discussed.

Were you personally present for the staging of that class? I submit that what we are discussing here is a class called Christian Family and Sex, that was presented in the field for the typical student of the PFAL series of classes, not a special version presented to the Corps. Hence, though the titles may be the same, they are not really the same class. Although, if you wish to discuss specifics of that particular version you might very well wish to start a separate thread to do so.

Care to share a sampling of said document? Surely there must be something that could be shared from a document that lengthy. BTW----We are speaking of the class in a generalized and larger sense here, not isolating a particular version that was only presented to a small fraction of the TWI populace.

Your experience certainly conflicts with my memory as a class instructor. The syllabus was, as stated, 2 or 3 pages, at best. There was no "final exam". There was, however, a questionnaire that asked explicit and personal questions about the student's sexual experiences.

Outstanding performance. :eusa_clap:

Curiosity got the better of me so I googled it. :asdf: Excellent tune, Mr. Moose!

I prefer this variation from Monty Python: