waysider

"Advanced Christ"???? You mean there's a version that's more complete than the completely, completely, complete version? Who'd a thunk it?

Here's one that might best be described as conflicting rather than blatant error. You be the judge. In session # 9, on the introduction page, there is a chart that shows God, The Giver, who is Holy Spirit, giving the gift of holy spirit, which is God in Christ in you, which is power from on high. It then shows that there are nine Manifestations in the Senses World. These nine manifestations are depicted in a fan shape that visually implies they are of equal importance. Page 49 further reinforces this concept of co-equality as such. "INTRODUCTION: The manifestations of the gift from the HOLY Spirit, which is power from on high, are nine in number. No more. No less. They are not set in order, but simply listed in I Corinthians 12: 8-10." The chart appears again on page 3 of Interpretation Of Tongues And Prophesy (1971). Page 15, in contrast, shows a pyramid shaped chart with Kinds Of Tongues being the foundation upon which the rest of the pyramid is built.The implication is that that the others can't be accessed without first forming a base by speaking in tongues. This is further enforced on page 10 of the Advanced Class syllabus where we read: Keys To Walking By The Spirit, key # 3. "Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation. II Corinthians 4: 16." In addition, we are told on page 61 of the PFAL syllabus, item 4. "It (SIT in private prayer life) is to be edified. I Corinthians 14: 4." The implication here is that this scripture is telling us SIT is some kind of spiritual "mashed potatoes" that with help the inner spirit gain addition strength so the other manifestations may be operated. How can someone make the inner spirit stronger when it says in Colossians 2:9,10 "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him".? There is even a chapter in The Bible Tells Me So titled "Complete In Him", that "examines" this particular passage.This chapter begins with this statement: "We are complete in Christ then we are truly complete." Conflicting messages throughout the whole PFAL series regardless of one's personal theological leanings. Error is error whether it's a book about the Bible or a book about carburetors.

I found my old ADAN book. It says it was copyrighted by The Devin-Adair Co. in 1971. The copyright was then assigned to The Way International in 1973. Published 1971. My copy is First Edition. Third Impression 1976.

I stand corrected. He did say Satan could not counterfeit it, not that it couldn't be faked. But that brings us back to this: "Speaking in tongues is the believer's external manifestation in the senses world of the internal reality and presence of the holy spirit." On that particular occasion when he faked speaking in tongues, it was not an external manifestation in the senses world of the internal reality and presence of the holy spirit. It was an external manifestation of his ability to fake it. What else did he fake?

Was it this? George Aar post Jan 17 2009, 01:25 AM Post #9 (Blatant errors thread) QUOTE (George Aar @ Jan 17 2009, 02:25 AM) * As I've mentioned several times in the past, I think the most OBVIOUS of errors that Mr. Wierwille made in "The Class" is stating that the Council of Nicea was in FRANCE! Nice, Nicea, I guess anybody could make that mistake... Mark Clarke replied: Didn't they fix that one in later editions of JCNG?

Well, there ya go! What other things did he proclaim that were proven erroneous? The guy had the credibility of a Chia Pet.

Welcome, eagle 709 errrrr, I mean Trapper. Pull up a folding chair and we'll pour you some stretched coffee.

He said it could NOT be faked. But, admitted that he, himself, had occasion to fake it by repeating Greek words. So which is it? Did he lie when he said it couldn't be faked or lie when he said he faked it or just lie to those present about what he was actually doing? ******************** Page 60---PFAL syllabus. 4. it is not a gift of languages. a. That you could speak in a desired tongue at will, for instance Greek.

In addition, Wierwille claimed that "tongues" could not be counterfeited yet he states, in PFAL, that, on at least one occasion, he faked tongues by repeating Greek words.

Blatant Error "Speaking in tongues is the believer's external manifestation in the senses world of the internal reality and presence of the holy spirit." Fact Speaking in tongues is an activity that is practiced by both Christians and Non-Christians. ************************************* http://www.speaking-in-tongues.net/ History of Speaking in Tongues Throughout recorded history there have been many occasions where people have spoken in unknown tongues which are also known as ecstatic tongues. Note most of these accounts predate Pentecost and were of non-Christian origin. Christians therefore can not say with confidence that every occurrence of glossolalia must be an expression of the will of God even though many do subscribe to this view. Those practicing speaking in tongues today portray Pentecost as the supreme example of supernatural tongues; however, the recorded cases of glossolalia go back as far as 1100 B.C. On that occasion a young Amen worshiper attracted historical infamy when he became possessed by a god and began to make sounds in a strange ecstatic tongue. ************************ In addition, Wierwille claimed that "tongues" could not be counterfeited yet he states, in PFAL, that, on at least one occasion, he faked tongues by repeating Greek words.

Mike said: So how DO we end this? Call a cease fire, or someone put forth the definitive argument? Definitive argument PFAL was riddled with error, both doctrinal and scholastic. These errors can clearly be demonstrated using conventional rules of logic and reason as well as the methods set forth by Mike, himself. Therefore, it is not reliable as ANY rule of faith and practice, much less the ONLY rule of faith and practice.

Mike Using the methods you have outlined, can you demonstrate how you used those methods to arrive at your conclusion regarding the apparent genealogy errors?( ie: used before, in light of previous usage within PFAL, understood according to PFAL definition, etc.)

What will the national currency be?

What would be the point in discussing this with private messages? If the product is defective, every customer who bought it has a right to know. *Yeah, I know, we didn't "buy" it, we gave a "donation". What say we keep that aspect in a separate thread? *(Requisite obviation)

Happy Birthday, Mo!

Blatant errors in PFAL Pretty straightforward concept, really. Is "throughly" really any different from "thoroughly"? Were there genealogy errors stated? Are the differences between "dechomai" and "lambano" real or perceived? Are the two "Kingdoms" synonymous? Etc. It all seems fairly basic and devoid of personal prejudice.

With the advent of the internet, isn't it somewhat of a moot point? (The financial aspect not withstanding, of course.)

"Oh, Blinding Light"

I'll tell you something that amazes me. When I left Cleveland in the early to mid 1970s, it was a virtual hotbed of PFAL and TWI activity. Two big branches. Lots of twigs. Classes, classes, classes and more classes. People going WOW, Corps, etc. Then I come here and find out that at least one wave of WOWs, and possibly more, were sent in after I left. For What???? Word Over The World my foot! It was all about sending salesmen into areas where they thought the market was receptive.

The random snow squall argument is a bust. Not a cloud in the sky. Wrong time of year. No supporting records. Plus, according to TW:LIL, it was a "phenomenon" which means it could not have been a naturally occurring event anyway. So a random squall would not qualify as phenomena. And, if it was possible for it to be a naturally occurring random squall, why would he be so amazed at it anyhow? So, the possibility of it being a random squall is a moot point. Not even worth considering. The only thing left is phenomena. But Wierwille himself taught that the fleece deal in the O.T. was a one time event and that you can't order God to give you a sign, order up phenomena. Well, if he was right about that, he disproved his own snowstorm. If he was wrong, and he really saw it, the snowstorm would contradict his teaching on the subject and thus flush his credibility down the crapper. But personally, I like Groucho's take on it the best.

What is being looked at here is really a supposed chronological, historical event, devoid, for the most part, of doctrinal matters.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/iwx/program_areas/...07&month=09 According to September weather statistics for Fort Wayne, Indiana, the record snowfall for the month of September is--------zero.

TW:LIL Page 177 " After I met Rosalind Rinker in Indiana, I invited her to visit us in Payne, and she came for a week that summer of 1942. Maybe it was August. I remember it was near the end of summer------------" Page 178 "Then Rosalind left. It was the fall of the year. Kids were in school already. It must have been September." Page 180 "The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful early autumn day. I said, 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a sign. Let me see it snow.' My eyes were tightly shut as I prayed. And then I opened them. (Even "random squalls" require clouds.) "The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling station on the corner not 75 feet away." Doctor relates this phenomenon in a joyous voice. ************************************** Growing up in Ohio, I can remember how crazy hot it always seemed to be the first two weeks back from summer vacation. There was no air conditioning back then so the memory is still quite vivid.

Fort Wayne, Indiana

Happens to a lot of "old grads".