waysider

Hi, Twinky I've had lots of feral and wild cats over the years. The two we have currently are from a colony that had been living in the woods for many generations so I guess they are more wild then feral. We've had this particular pair(sisters from the same litter) about 11 years now. When we first got them, they were about 3 months old. They wanted nothing to do with humans and would hide in the most unlikely places, motionless, for hours on end. They were totally nocturnal at that time. They completely shunned us for the better part of 2 years even though we keep them inside. But now, it seems like we can't go anywhere in the house without at least one of them tagging along.(Provided their are not snoozing) They have become quite affectionate. Even today, if we have company over, they hide completely out of sight until the coast is clear. This even includes people who have been to our house countless times since we got them. The only exception is my buddy, DialThis, who ironically has a cat of his own. Hence, I'm not sure they sense another cat's scent as a threat. You really can't dictate a timetable to their acclimation. It's good to have a food dish and water dish for each cat. They will not use one exclusively but it saves fighting( and, Lord, can they fight!) if they both decide to eat at the same time. Some wacky facts. Wild cats don't know how to "meow". It's a learned behavior. Ours only made a chirping sort of noise for about 2 or 3 years. They also don't know they are supposed to eat their prey once they have captured it. They learn how to hunt and what to do with their quarry from their mother. Ours were already taught by the time we got them. Hang in there. It may take time but the rewards are worth it.

Well, Twinky is posting from "the other side of the pond". Maybe a CV is viewed from a different perspective in that corner of the world.

Perhaps the greatest myth that has persisted is that he was the MOGFODAT.

Suppose for a moment that VP really had this experience. If so, is it possible he was supposed to notice(first and foremost) that the sky was pitch black and not that it was snowing? I mean, he based the meaning of this event on his own interpretation. ------Food for thought------- Furthermore, he supposedly initiated the event by telling God to give him a sign. This is a practice he himself taught was clearly un-Biblical and "unavailable". I don't remember if it was in the AC (or where it was) but he taught that the "dew on the fleece"(Judges, chapter 6) was an exception to the way it is supposed to work and that we can't tell God to give us a sign. So----Whether it was "revelation" or a fabrication, I don't know, but I do know it does not coincide with how he taught revelation is supposed to work.

A simple statement of credentials and curriculum might do wonders to bolster confidence and credibility. Would you agree to that much, Jonny?

Has anyone considered that this web site might be someone fishing for GSC identities and e-mail addresses. Not sayin' it is. It's just a thought that crossed my mind.

Just a thought---- Maybe the discussion re: Victor Wierwille's new endeavor would best be suited to its own dedicated thread as it seems a bit off topic to the current discussion.

Hello, Eyes I can't answer those questions for OCW but I can try to answer for myself. When I had my "experience"( I'm not calling it revelation because I really don't know WHAT it was.), I didn't even know there was such a thing as revelation, etc., much less that it was supposed to have some sort of profit. I had not taken PLAL yet. I had only gotten in the word maybe like a week or two before this. I only started speaking in tongues maybe 2 or 3 days before this happened. Stuff happened really fast back then!!!! I got witnessed to, spoke in tongues( without being coached to do so), manifested in believers meetings(didn't know you were supposed to have a class so when the leader said,"Will someone-----", I did.) and then(after all this) took PLAF within about my first 3 or 4 weeks in the word. Now, if it was revelation,( and, again, I'm not saying it was.) that kinda debunks the idea that you MUST SIT much before you can get revelation. The first thing I did (the next day) was to present this to my local leader. My leader told me it was unrenewed mind. I didn't even know what RM meant so he explained it to me. I believed him but the image was so vivid, it was a lot of work to try to squelch the memory when I tried to lift VPW. Another time, in this same time frame, I gave a word of prophesy in a believers meeting that went something like,"For, yea, people, thou art of------"(and I could sense myself about to say "Satan" but I pushed out the word "God".) If you've ever done any acting, you know that once you "go up" on a line, you have to fight it every time you come to it after that. Likewise, I had to consciously FOCUS every time a similar phrase would come up in a TIP or prophesy for quite some time. As I progressed in my time with TWI, it was brought to my attention that I probably was "entertaining devil spirits" when this stuff had happened because I was so new and didn't know how to renew my mind. Well, crazy as it might seem, that answer seemed to make sense. But it also caused two more things to happen. The first thing was that I felt a sense of guilt for having had these thoughts. The second thing it did was to motivate me to burn all my bridges so I wouldn't be tied to a past that included these things. In other words, it encouraged me to pursue a self deluded state of "renewed mind" so I could purge myself of this apparently "unclean" thinking. Here I am, 35+ years later, still trying to understand what the heck really happened.

Can't answer. ( on account of I'm from Cleveland. )

I'm not familiar with the program nor am I judging it, but the ad. could have easily been for Fellow Laborers 35 yrs. ago. (Except for the work 4 hrs./study 4 hrs. part.) We worked 8 hrs. at secular jobs and then 4 more at limb hq. in the evening.

Yep I answered because it was supposed to be easily recognized. (Which it wasn't) How about this one: Jo Jo was a man who thought he was a loner.

Who's next?

Nope. Traffic did have an album called John Barleycorn Must Die, though. And there is a line in the song that says, "No parking by the sewer." (Kind of a traffic- like reference.)

"He's a student, like you."

(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction------Mick and the boys --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A preachment, dear friend, you are about to receive on John Barleycorn, nicotine and the temptations of Eve.

I suppose I'll rub someone the wrong way for saying this but here goes. I feel that same "cringe" feeling when I try to listen to modern "Christian Rock". It's like they are trying to convince themselves(and their audience) that this is what they believe. I know I could be wrong(and probably am) but it just gives me a creepy feeling to try to listen to it. And it's not about the actual message or whether or not it's "On The Word".(cough) When I used to listen to some of the early way stuff that was being independently produced, I never felt like I was trying to make myself buy into something. Even today, if I put on that first PDST album, it evokes a pleasantness that doesn't force itself on you. Is any of that similar to what you experience in the various church settings or have I derailed this thread? edited 'cause I ain't such a goood speller anymore.

Don't beat yourself up, 2fer. I knew next to nothing about TWI or VPW at the time this happened. It's only now, 30+ years later, that it's starting to make any sense to me. Heck, for all I know, maybe I wasn't supposed to understand it "in the moment". Maybe the reason it was so vivid was so I would always remember it and it would resurface at a future date. If that's the case, perhaps your "gut" reaction is really a similar experience----- not a warning of what to do, but a bit of data to be stored and understood at a future time. Funny that we both felt that sense of guilt for having had such thoughts. For me, the guilt grew because the more I thought I was learning about TWI and it's doctrines, the more reason I had to feel guilty stupid to have had those thoughts. I don't know. I'm only theorizing. Even though I don't understand it, it is no longer a source of guilt for me and shouldn't be for you either.(IMO)

I suppose it's a good thing they didn't mark them 1, 3 and 4.

Juke---George Smith

What bug??? :B)

Here's one for Jonny Lingo

Hi, Jonny Yes, people from all walks of life commit suicide for a multitude of reasons. I have posted this before but it bears repeating. Many years ago, a friend of mine, who was in a compromised state due to mental illness, was told by an advanced class grad, that he(my friend) was born again of the wrong seed. Maybe someone other than him would have shaken it off and walked away. Instead, he left me a note that said he could not go on living with this knowledge about himself. He committed suicide. I found him. In my mind, there will always seem to be a direct connection between this person's actions(as a representative of TWI) and my friend's suicide. It's not a coincidence. He killed himself because of what a believer told him. That person based that conclusion on teachings that came from TWI. Now, of course, he could have also taken his own life over some other scenario, and, perhaps, would have if given enough time. I don't know. But that's kinda like saying, "Sorry I ran over your dog, Mrs. Jones, but he was old and would have died soon anyway so it's not really all that bad." Anyway, my point in posting was not to single out the specific subject matter of this experience, but, rather to simply say that I too have had a similar experience. It just so happens that the subject matter involved The Way. I don't think this kind of thing is unique to TWI and apologize if I gave that impression.

Yes, we might all be wrong. But I don't think so. That's just my opinion. I'm not posting this as some sort of slam on TWI or to discredit the legitimate work that was done by many caring individuals who were part of the organization. I'm simply stating that this incident happened to me. No one else was involved. Call it revelation, call it psychic premonition, call it spirit guides, call it yo' Mama, call it what ever you like. The point is, it happened on an individual level. It's not like an entire congregation seeing a vision simultaneously. There were some key elements that I personally found interesting. 1. I knew very little about The Way at that time, much less the terrible things I would come to discover decades later. (In fact, I think there were very,very few who did know anything about the dark side of TWI in 1972.) 2. I knew almost nothing about VPW. I had seen one picture in the way magazine that had him posing behind a podium or something like that. 3. I had no idea that he wore those scarf ties until some time later. (Might have been CF&S in 1974.) 4. I presented this to the local leader who discounted it as a case of "unrenewed mind". Man, can you imagine how unrenewed your mind would have to be to see a burning bush or hear a donkey talking? If it was God talking to me, I don't think He was telling me to shout it from the mountain top. I think He was trying to warn me as an individual. The whole thing kind of reminds me of some guy who sees a bright light in the sky and notifies authorities. Next thing you know, some reporter is holding a microphone in front of him saying, "Soooo, Mr. Smith, do you believe this proves there is life on other planets?" To which Mr. Smith replies, "Heck if I know. I just know I saw a bright light in the sky."

I thought beauty was in the eye of the beholder. Oh, well---"Only love can break a heart." :blink: And don't forget---"Many a tear has to fall."

Yup Had a somewhat similar experience in 1972. I was brand new in The Word, had not taken the class, and had spoken in tongues for the first time only a day or two before this happened. I knew almost nothing about TWI or VPW. My twig leader gave me a "lift list" and told me to "lift" the people on it. The first one on the list was VPW. I had seen a picture of him in Way Ragazine. As I tried to visualize him, I saw this image of him, wearing one of those scarf ties that I later discovered he liked to wear. He looked straight at me, smirked and flipped me the bird!! It was not a dream, I wasn't asleep. It was not a hallucination because I knew it was not real. (and I wasn't stoned.) I don't know how else to describe it but it was very vivid and intense. It never happened to me again. For years, I felt guilty that I had let my mind think this of such a great Man of God.(cough) I have no idea if it was revelation or "bad chicken" or what it was but I can tell you that it really did happen. For a long time, every time I would "lift" VPW, I would have to force myself to forget that experience. It's wacky, I know, but you asked so I told you.