ex10

not to be a big B, but........... Johnny Lingo, you probably did't get stalked by LCM, or trapped in his guest room in Kipp with the door locked, either. What we each have to forgive, is different. Some things take longer to work through than others.

cm Maybe that's why Mike is so important here. He reminds us of who we were and where we've been. Ya know?

touche, mark

I never thought I would stick up for Mike, but really, it is the doctrinal forum, and if Mike wants to try to teach us something here.....what's the harm? I will never agree with him in this lifetime on PFAL, but if he wants to try and convince me, hey I might listen, I might not. :mellow: We all have a voice here. Maybe Mike should have one too? Nobody has to listen, moi included. At least he's found an outlet for what he thinks. Maybe that's not so different than the rest of us? Ohmygosh, I might even vote for a democrat next thing I know.......

I think VPW was a much better preacher, than teacher. His "teachings" don't hold up to alot of scrutiny, and where they do, can be credited to someone else. So, I'd have to say, he wasn't as good a teacher, as he was a preacher. But he could really preach a fabulous message, when he got it right. :)

hahaha, pipes! Driving on the sidewalk is definitely a rule buster. But, hey, we do what we must sometimes. Speakin of which, I gotta got to court tomorrow for daughter breaking a rule, sorta. She got a ticket for not wearing her seat belt, although she really had it on. This is one time we followed the rules, and gotta ticket anyway. So I gotta dress up tomorrow and look all sweet and innocent along with daughter, and explain to the judge perxactly why she got a ticket, even though she was buckled. Aye corumba. It would be easier just to pay the stupid fine, but on principle, we gots to fight it. ;) Wish us luck.

Mike Warning......I don't read really long posts. And I discarded the "law of believing" as total bunk before I ever even left TWI. There is no way in this lifetime you will convince me of its validity in my life as a Christian. You see, Mike, I believe it's what the KJV calls a "doctrine of devils," at its worst, and pop psycology myth at its best. And that's not an over reaction either. It's 3 decades of considering it. So go ahead and post whatever you want. There have been enuff discussions of this topic already. I'm not going there again. I would really like to move on in my life to deeper issues of faith.

oi vey Notice how wth's explanation has nothing to do with one's heart. It's a mechanical formula that has nothin to do with nothin. My muslim neighbor says he believes Jesus was a great prophet. He even believes that Jesus was raised from the dead. Does that make him saved?

Mike, I appreciate your response. I confess, to being at a severe disadvantage, because I don't have any written PFAL materials anymore, except a couple of books. But I think the idea of approaching God almighty, with the "law of believing" does bring into question many of his attributes, and his heart of a loving Father, that are revealed in scripture. Don't you remember? how the law works "for saint and sinner alike?" What an insult to Who He Is for us. And what He is doing now, and will do in the future. Despite our "believing." If it was up to Israel to "believe" for the Messiah, holy catfish, Batman, do you think it ever whould have happened? God's will and his divine plan will happen, whether anybody believes it or not. It's an egocentric doctrine, that has nothing to do with God, or the fulfilling of his will.

Mike, just out of curiosity, what do you "sense" I am over reacting to?

pipes, do tell the story of driving on the sidewalk, pretty please?

Mike, yeah. That's why I said what I did. :blink:

Not only does the "law of believing" not work, it's an impediment to having an intimate relationship of trust with God and our Saviour. MHO, but I think the whole "law of believing" teaching assaults the character of God, and the nature of our relationship with Him.

Last month, I took daughter back to college after the christmas break. Needless to say, she had alot of stuff. Mom was with me. We couldn't find a parking place near the dorm entrance, (so what else is new.) Daughter says, mom, I know a spot where we can get up real close to the front door of my dorm. Ok, says I. Show me where to go. We weave through all these back alleys and finally get to a fire lane type road, with orange cones and a sawhorse thing that says "Road closed." I pull up, daughter says, "I'll get out and move the cones, you get the sawhorse." So anyways, we move all the cones and the sawhorse, pull in, and put it all back. We pull right up to the dorm main entrance, and daughter says to Grandma: "If campus security says we gotta move, just tell them we do this all the time, and will be back ina minute, and we have coupons for Free Birds, (the local eatery everybody loves) we can share." Grandma says to daughter: "How did you think of doing this?" Daughter says: "Oh mom's the one who taught me to move the orange cones and the 'road closed' sign. I thought up the Freebird coupons all on my own." :)

And wb, he takes his mama to church on Sundays, too. No kidding. They have a pew with his family's name on it. Gotta love a guy like that. :)

Ok, so truth be told, I am a selective rulebreaker. :D Ballcaps don't bug me, but cowboy hats do. :wacko:

The rule bout the hats, though is one I wish didn't get broken around here. This is Texas, after all. Daughter and I have a favorite country diner we like to stop at for chicken fried steak on the way home from the barn, after a show or a hard day of smelling horses. <_< My pet peeve is all the cowboys eating with their hats on. Geeze oh pete, please remove your hat, boy. A couple of Saturdays ago, we stopped and ate. It was real busy so there was a line out on the front porch. We were standing there, and I noticed Lyle Lovett (he lives down the road from our barn) and a pretty girl were walking in right in front of us. God bless him, he took his hat off when he went in the restaurant. What a gentleman. We run into him at the feed store or the tack shop in town every once in a while, too. He is always polite and friendly. I know that has nothing to do with nothing. Oh well. B)

ah, I get it now, Johnny. I absolutely hated my time in Gunnison. Couldn't stand TJ or his other half. I felt like I was living in a prison camp, and woulda got kicked out of the corps for being a "teeny bopper" if a certain staff member hadn't come to my defense. You and Gin caught fishing, huh? Now that would be funny....

Johnny I was same corps as you. But I never got patted on the back for anything. I mostly got harrassed, for being too young, and people wanting to kick me out cause I was too young and a "teeny bopper." and I didn't "take the program seriously enough." And I hadn't done my time or anything, I just showed up in the corps totally undeserving of working in the backroom and doing head table and all that. I didn't deserve it, I guess. I hadn't worked my way up, ya know? I took the place of people who had been around way longer than me, and felt more deserving than me, of what I did. I had no idea at the time..... I had people tell me the only reason I was in the corps was cause of VP and me being one of "his girls." I didn't know what it meant at the time, but later I found out. Corps coordinators were suspicious of me, so they never gave me credit for anything or treated me like a normal human. I'm glad your experience was different. smooches, bro

but dove, it's so consticting ya know, to be a rules person. I say, us right brainers, as dooj, says, have way much more fun. And keep life interesting for you left brainers. No?

yes dooj another example When the kids were little, I had 3, we used to fly home to see the grandparents often. So I got pretty good at maneuvering a stroller, with a kid strapped to me, and one holding my hand, through the airport. (O'hare to be exact) Hubby went with me on a trip home. We were late, as usual, getting our plane. Had baggage and kids. I'm used to it, hubby is a novice. Get to the escalator going up to our gate. We are in a way hurry. Big sign says "NO STROLLERS ALLOWED ON ESCALATOR." I step on, not thinking. Hubby says, "wait, you can't do that." I reply, "that sign is just for people who don't know how to do this." Get on! Hubby gets on escalator. We get off, stroller, baggage, kids, in tow. Nobody died. Hubby says, "I can't believe we did that." I roll my eyes. On the way home, when we have a more leisurely pace, and had time to follow all the rules, we were sitting waiting at the bottom of the escalator. A hubby with alot of baggage, etc. got off with a stroller, turned to his wife, and said. "Look nobody died." I busted out laffing. Hubby looked at me and said, "so there are more of you out there, so what?"

I am sowwy. I didn't mean to offend anybody, I promise.

ha, dove but sometimes it turns out better if you don't do exactly what's expected, no?

My dearly beloved and I have always had arguments about following rules. He is great. A rulekeeper and follower to the max. I've always had trouble in that category of life. Rules are for people who don't know how to do stuff without them, according to moi. Most of our disagreements in life have had to do with keeping rules. Example: I'm cooking supper and can't follow a recipe to save my life. Hubby is a great cook, that likes to follow the recipe. Hubby: What do you have here? Moi: Texmex casserole, same as always. Hubby: You used stewed tomatoes instead of diced. Moi: I didn't want to go to the store just to get diced tomatoes. I wanted to use what I had. Hubby: But the recipe says diced.... Moi: But stewed and diced taste basically the same, after they are cooked for a while, no? Hubby: no, not really But it will probly taste ok. You didn't put too many green chilis, did you? Moi: I didn't have any green chilis, so I used jalapenos. Hubby: Oi vey.... Moi: I didn't have flour totillas, so I used corn instead. Hubby: So we aren't really having texmex casserole same as always, we are having somthing similiar? Moi: Yeah. :) and on it goes............sigh.... I'm exaggerating, but not really........... but so it goes. He likes to follow the recipe, I don't. I think that's why he married me, and I married him. We sorta balance each other, in a wierd sorta way. Any rule breakers out there have trouble?

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't call it fear. I think shame and guilt are more appropo. The culture of the cult was more shamed based than anything else. But your mileage may vary.