ex10

Allan, check your interlinear. The greek words translated "born again" in John 3 are not the same as used in the church epistles when referring to the new birth. ;)

Hey dove, we figured out he stayed at Jay and N's house. ;)

Rumrunner Steve and Suzie are in the phone book for Charlotte, NC. Try switchboard.com and you will find them.

To shed further light, on John 3, there is an appendix in John Schoenheit's book, "The Christian's Hope, The Anchor of the Soul," in which JS does an excellent job of explaining this section of scripture. Just in case anybody is interested. ;)

Oh geeze. I haven't read this thread in long time, so pardon me, if my comment is a little late in coming. But in John 3, I don't believe Jesus is talking to Nicodemus about "the new birth" that we receive since the resurrection. Ole Nic was somebody who would have known about the prophecies concerning what we now call "the millenial kingdom," when the descendant of David will rule the throne in Israel. That's what Nic was asking Jesus about. And Jesus' reply has to do with the prophecies about the "dry bones" in the OT. You know, when the OT believers are resurrected and enter into the promised kingdom. The kingdom Nic knew about was the one promised in the OT, when the Messiah would rule from David's throne. He thought maybe it was at hand. The OT saints missed the lesson of the spring feasts versus the fall feasts. Of course, we know now in hindsight that the spring feasts represented the first coming of the Messiah, and the fall feasts the second. But in Jesus' day, that info was not clear. That's why the jews were confused and some thought there would be 2 messiahs. Nic is asking Jesus to clear it up for him, I think. :B) Think about it. This is the subject of their conversation. Not the "new birth" which was still future and not revealed yet.

Tough call, wayfernot. I guess you really don't have any choice.

Sheesh. I still do not understand how people stayed and put up with this BS. In these letters, people are spoken to like they are stupid, and incapable of running their own lives. These letters were sent to ADULTS, right? LCM and his sycophants sound like total feaking maniacs. And this group was considered a "ministry?" And he was the head "minister?" I do not understand how people can deny that TWI is a cult.....

Geeze, I would NEVER use the term "Way Corps," or "The Way International" on my resume. If someone wanted to do a background check, and googled either one of those, I could have alot of 'splainin to do. :blink:

It's a good possibility, JL. :B) If you did, I hope you enjoyed your stay.

Ok, I have more to say. Somebody tell me to shut up! if what I have to say isn't valid. Honestly, the only reason I keep talking is because as socks said, "my experience WAS NOT UNIQUE." What happened to me and my husband happened to alot of us, in my world anyway. Once we complied with our "corps assignment," we got into it. I mean, we resigned ourselves to the fact that our own personal goals were gonna be put on hold for awhile, well, because "the ministry needed us." Yes, it's true, we were told that, and bought into it. sigh..... Anyway, once we became branch coordinators, we got into, loved the good and gracious people in our branch who welcomed us with open arms and open hearts. It was a beeeeyoootiful thang. Really. Then, the mess ensued.......Let me explain. Because of our proximity to Emporia, we got to be involved with the way corps in-training, whether we wanted to or not. Just about everybody in our branch, us included, were normal humans who went to work at a job, then came home, and did way stuff "after hours." Evenings and week-ends we ran twigs, classes, did special event things, etc. Life is good. The thing that got messed up, was this: Random Wednesday evening, no twig. We are hanging out, with friends, doing laundry, whatever normal pedestrians do on week nights. The phone rings. It was usually a limb coord. or corps coord. or assistant to such. "We want to do a 'witnessing week-end' for the in-rez corps. How many teams of corps can you host?" In other words, who in your branch is willing to house and feed a bunch of corpbees for said week-end? Usually, we had to "get back" with somebody ina couple of days. Ok, our twiggies were very generous with their time and resources and loved to have company come and visit. We get swamped with corps people, out witnessing, etc. They stay for maybe a week-end, then leave all us regular civilians to "follow up" on people. And then there was Lightbearers, a little more involved. OK, fine. We did what was asked of us. And kept running classes, having meetings, etc. It was ok. But it did get to the point where nobody had the spare time or energy to do nothing but run classes and have meetings. Most of the believers in our branch had families to look after and kids to raise. Enuff of a challenge in itself. But the ball is moving, our branch is "hot," and we keep getting inundated with corpbees. Fine. (I'm not even going to get into the ones who got "dismissed" and landed on our doorstep.) Then somebody somewhere decides that we have to keep track of how many people are "witnessed to" by in-rez corps, and how many "take the class." OK, more paperwork and keeping track of people. Fine. Then somebody somewhere decides that not only do we have to keep track of the "witnessed to" but also of the corps people doing the witnessing. We asked to fill out reports on their "performance." WHAT???? I can barely keep up with my own self going to work, paying bills, renting rooms, running classes, having meetings, and now I have to keep up with GUESTS IN MY HOME? Are you people nuts???? Anyway, it got to be the hamster on the wheel, and selfish me, I wanted to have a marriage and a life that was my own. As did my husband. Things were happening in TWI, that we had issues with. (this was circa 1985-86.) So we decided, that in order for us to grow as a couple, consider having kids, pursue our professional dreams, we needed to back off ministry stuff. Climbing the TWI corporate ladder was NOT what we wanted. Of course, hubby was talked to about his "future with the ministry, how he should say 'yes' to ordination, take another corps assignment with "more areas of responsibility," etc. We talked, I balked, we said "no thank you." We decided that in order to keep our integrity, build our marriage relationship, and just generally stay to true to ourselves, we needed to back off. however, we were also willing to host twig, even oversee a few twigs, and run as many classes as we could handle. You'd a thunk we were spawn of the devil himself. (Except for our Limb coordinator who was actually supportive and understood and was fantastic at making sure nobody gave us too much sheet.) But then we moved, in the summer of 86 to another area, actually hubby's home town, where he had started the first twig. We agreed to oversee that twig as well as the one in the next town. Needless to say, the other corps in the state were suspicious of us. In their eyes, we had been "demoted." Even after we explained our choice over and over again, and dared talk about some of the "problems" we saw with the way things were run, and how people were "handled," most corpbees in our new state treated us as "troublemakers." They didn't know what to do with us. We were still "in good standing," highly recommended, etc. etc., but we dared "do our own thing." We were a threat to the status quo. And were treated as such. Shoot, I've said too much already. I hate long posts, so will end here. But the same exact thing happened to some of our fellow corps grads. The definition of "the lifetime of Christian service" changed constantly, and depended on who you were, where you were, and who your leadership was. This is the point of going into detail about "our story." It was never specifically defined at all. It was one of those vague generalities that made a great sound byte. mark, you and I were posting at the same time. Wow.

I'm not sure I understand the contentious attitude among some posters on this thread. After being recruited into the corps program, but before I ever made a final decision to sign up, I talked to the corps coordinator at HQ. Yes, I heard the "lifetime of Christian Service" rhetoric. I discussed my desire to finish college after the way corps training was over, should I decide to go in. I only had one year left to go to get my degree. ONE STUPID YEAR. I was assured that would be no problem. I was told that many corps grads finished up their degrees or career pursuits after graduating. The impression that I got, was that it was a GOOD THING to have a skill, degree, profession. During our time in-rez, my husband and I both made it know that our plans were to go back to college. Me, to finish my design degree, him to get his phd. We were assured by the then corps coordinators when we met with them about our graduation assignment, that our wishes would be honored. It never happened, just because some almighty region/limb coordinator wanted my husband. (He and I had never met before.) And when we protested, we were guilted and arm twisted in doing what "the ministry" wanted. Of course, we could have said no, but turning down our corps assignment at that point would have been an all out act of defiance that would have gotten us kicked out of the corps I'm sure. And we had just graduated! I really don't understand what all the fuss is about on this thread. I didn't think it was any secret nowadays that the way strong-armed people into doing what "they" wanted. Is this news to anyone? I agree with whoever said that arguing with words on a promo brochure is absurd. The way inc. never had the right to keep people from finishing their education and other professional pursuits. Especially since we were "volunteers." We didn't expect salary or compensation from TWI and they sure weren't going to provide it. The whole thing is just beyond absurd. Lifetime of christian service or no, we still have to be able to earn a living.

dooj, my last year in-rez, I applied to 3 different colleges, same ones my beloved applied to, because we had a plan for both of us to go back to school. Pat Lynn assured us that our requests would be met, and there would be no problems. At Living Victoriously, we got our corps assignment, which was nothing like what we were promised. We were upset, to say the least. Went to corps coordinator, bitched, got nowhere, got referred to Johnny Townsend who was to be our limb coordinator. Turns out, he had "requested" us. We objected. He promised he would make our dreams come true, and if we both wanted to go to KU to finish our degrees, we would work it out. When we both applied to KU, and got accepted, he told us we couldn't keep our "committment" as branch coordinators and go to school. We requested a change of assignment. Every year for 4 years. Finally, we told him we were quitting to "do our own thing." at the end of year number 4. Unfortunately, our branch had like quadrupled in size, and we were quitting "moving the word." He relented, and pretty much wrote us off. We didn't have the "level of committment" it took to be corps grads. It was a shame, according to him, because we had a "future" with "the ministry." Yeah, right, that "future" included a whole bunch of bs, neither of us wanted. I could say a whole bunch more, but I don't feel like it now. ps white dove I was made promises by VP that he didn't keep. :B) Seems he had a selective memory.

But dove, enlighten me or something. You never went into the corps, never went wow, never did any of the regular stuff most of us did. So I guess I'm missing something....???? Not to make light of who you are or what you did, but you didn't do the same stuff we did. So why come off as knowing and understanding all the other stuff, when you never did it? I'm just asking.

Dove, not to be argumentative or anything, but you never went into the corps, never went WOW, or anything. Did you know something we didn't?

I am not going to argue with you, my dear friend. What was said, in writing by the way inc, and what was practiced are two entirely different things. I would venture to say, it still holds true today. Go figure.

That's it! tommy. I don't know anybody who doesn't wish we had a "do over." ;) Like who do you know in your world is really happy about wasting time with the Way? We invested our heart, knowledge, energy, youth, and look where it is now. Not too much to be proud of, is it? Sorry if I sound bitter.

Here's the deal, tom strange, my husband was offered a phd fellowship at the University of Michigan that he turned down to take our "corps assignement." It just really makes me mad, this whole subject. Sorry for being grouchy. What it boiled down to is this, if any of us corpsbees had any kind of aspirations beyong the Way, upon graduation from the corps, we got GUILTED into doing the ministry THANG. Yes, I can attest to this, as can many of my family and friends. Makes me mad, to this day. Sorry.

OMG I confess to being a latecomer to this thread. Whitedove, you are my friend, and I've known you since forever, but geeze, you never went thru the way corps, so what makes you the expert on what it was and was intented to be? You never even went WOW. So please, stop. Ok? You have no idea what some of us went through. And what we gave up, and the kind of sacrifices we made. I am so tired of crap being minimized. Call me grouchy....... I'm sick of it. It's easy for people who never gave up anything to judge those of us who did. :B)

I have to admit, I love being "a piece of foot" with a mouth.

Ok this is gonna sound really wierd. Several years after leaving the way, and being involved in various christian related stuff, I went to a splinter group meeting. I spoke, and related my experiences being involved with "ministry" stuff after leaving the way. Afterwards, a guy I knew from Emporia staff came up to me to talk. It was someone I didn't know well while I was in the corps. He said to me: "I have to confess, that while you were at Emporia, I thought the only reason you were in the way corps, was to @*#( VP and Craig. They let girls like you in, just so they could have you around, ya know?" He said: "I'm having a hard time believing you have anything to offer me, now. You were just a piece of foot, then, and I think that's probably what you are now." I said, " Ok. Fine. It's a free country." :lol: Since then, I have proved him wrong on every count. <_<

oh geeze I been busy for a couple of days. Thank you so much, mark, and johnny lingo, for answering my questions. You guys are the real deal, and I so appreciate you both taking the time to think and post here, so I can learn something. What I don't get is this: Why some hold onto a teaching by LCM that somebody has to repent before being forgiven, when we know that most of what he said is, uh, how do I say it tactfully? SUSPECT. Tis true, most of the forgiveness debate/discussion is Christianity 101. Pretty much NOBODY in the Christian world views forgivess as something to be earned. If one is not a Christian, then fine, fuhgetaboutit. And dooj, thankee. But if one is.......well, tis a different matter altogether.

thank you oldies, for the de-rail I was gonna say something, but ................well, whatever, I guess it won't be a serious thread, after all.

Shell, You make a fabulous point. I only wish I had that much power over people. Especially my kids. :B)

Thank you, sky, for telling your story. I can't tell you how much it means to me. Seems the standard MO of any MOG was to test the boundaries of us normal humans, and see what they could get away with. The backrub was the standard THING. OMG, I have so much more to say about this, but it makes me really mad and grouchy, so I better not. :o

OMG Too funny! I love telling stories!! Ok, one Sunday after church, family and I happened upon new acquaintance family, who moved in a couple houses down the street. We had kinda waved at each other in passing, and I was quite pleased to run into them at church. So, family and I walk up to newby to church family. "Hi, it's good to see you guys," I say to Mom. Mostly. (Dad was standing there aloof, looking slightly uncomfortable.) I look at daughter of said mom, who is maybe 4. And "what is your name?" I ask innocuously. Little girl says, "My name is Amanda, and I have a vagina!" She was obviously quite excited to share this with me. Meanwhile, Mom is turning shades of red I didn't know existed, and Dad is inching ever slowly further and further away from the, um, conversation. In my effort to say the day, and minimize further embarassment to Mom, I say, looking directly at guilty child, "That is wonderful, Amanda." Well, Amanda, encouraged by my attention to her comment says, "And guess what? Johhny (little brother, who is like 2) has a p*nis, but it doesn't have a beard like Daddy's." Ok, Mom is horrified by now. So I turn and look at Mom and say, "You just had 'the talk' right?" She says, "Ohmigosh, yes." I said, "Don't worry about it, it gets worse as they get older, I promise." She, knowing I had teens replied, "Can I have your phone number?" Cripes, what else do you say?