def59

Coming to America - Neil Dimaond Longtime-Boston Gimme all your lovin ? ZZ Top Diving In -Steven Curtis Chapman 'You didn't stand by me' Clash Can't get enough of your love -Barry White Staying Alive - Bee Gees You got another thing coming - Judas Priest Back in Black - AC/DC I am glad to hear anything. I was hospitalized for five days fighting pneumonia and high blood sugar. Def

Raf As I have said before I support what you are doing here. I speak from fuzzy memories. But some of TWI's basic doctrines are in error. But you may say that is error of interpretation. Well what if it isn't? VPW has zero, nada, zip credibility. His works are worthless and he conclusions suspect. What was the apparent premise of all his ideas. To me, it was to be as different from the orthodox church as possible. To claim divine authority to preach and to be the star of all shows. His logic would force him to change words, meanings and use figures of speech where appropriate to convince us he was the only who has seen this stuff. His conclusions were flawed because they were built on his lust for power and to be "unique." So we must, if we are honest, dive back into PFAL and see the reason he wanted to be different. We must also have the covering of the Holy Spirit and take advantage of non-Way scholars to show the error of his ways. But keep up the good work. Would his admimistrationalism count as an error. It would appear all of the New Testament was written to the church in one form or another. ?

What I am saying is that vic was a charlatan and that his character must be included in any criticism of his "scholarly" work. What was going on in his life when he was growing spiritually? And which spirit was he growing? Since his works ulitmately took people away from Christ and toward him, his conclusions and logic are suspect. I can't do the exhaustive work Rafael has done, befcause I chucked all my way books a long time ago. Now I look at scripture when I remember what I had learned in the way. I may not gain brownie points here, but that's not my motive. I offer different views on some subjects. e

I love this thread, and if my points are a matter of interpretation to you so be it. I believe Wierwille was more off that anyone here care's to admit. Since I left the Way, I found PFAL to not stand up to the Word. So I see more "errors" than you. But that's not the point. The point is that Wierwille needs to be discredited as the scam artist he was and I will never hold any position as Gospel. Call me the antiMike. But even Satan uses the word to prove his points, so Wierwille might have gotten lucky once in awhile. I have worked the word on the issue of Jesus' deity and it works for me. If you choose not to believe, that is your choice. It's free thread, right? But I still find your posts fascinating. You say you are a journalist, if so what publication. I too am a journalist.

Two errors that haven't got much play here and I know they are contentious are Jesus' last words and his identity. On the cross, Jesus quoted the first part of Psalm 22:1, he was in pain, separated from God (from his perspective) because he was carrying all of the sins of the world. With that much sin, you too would feel separated. No one seems to acknowledge that. As for Jesus' identity, John 1 was completely misread by vic. It's obvious from the context of the book that John is speaking of Jesus. So to begin he tells us that Jesus was there before the beginning. He was with God and he was God. John 17:5 and 24 talk of the relationship Jesus had with the Father. John 8:58 tells of his existence before creation and his link to God by claiming the family name. Colossians and Hebrew speak to his work in creation (hint: He did it) Vic never had an origianl thought and when he did try something new, it fell flat. Is it any wonder that only cults deny his deity? The first step to recovery is admission of a problem. For those of you who still put stock in vic's words, this is your challenge. We have seen how he plagiarized, invented theories and made outrageous claims that cannot be supported. and that doesn't include his personal life. Why would anyone give him the time of day? Def59g

I find it interesting that Mike only appears to use PFAL as his resource material, when in fact, his master used outside sources. If true biblical research was his goal, why won't he use other sources.a

Remember that part of pffle when wierwille told about spend 14 hours a day with some woman who taught him stuff in the bible. Given his alleged mysogony, do you find it strange that he would accept instruction from a woman on any topic, let alone the bible? One has to wonder what he and her were doing for 14 hours by themselves in a room locked up?

You are absolutely right. And when people in Acts are called followers the Way it is not Jesus. All groups outside of the Jewish orthodoxy felt they were the ones in the know. The best way to look at PFAL is watching it being carted away by the garbage truck or burning. The teacher lied to us and made up great stories, why do we believe his other works? o

The verse that has Aramaic and is translated My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me? is a quote from a verse in pslams. That Jesus, always quoting Scripture. Well it HIS book after all. VPW's whole point was to tear down the accepted Bible and pump up his revelation. Is it any wonder he was making it sound like God had sex with Mary to produce Jesus? As for tongues. unbelievers can speak in tongues. Evew Wierwille says he faked it for Oral Roberts in Tulsa. How many of us really copied sounds and words from other people. And it my area, all interpreation and prophecy sounded the same and sounded like King Jimmy V. Thanks Rafael for a greath thread.

I found the Cortright site and its list of believers. I want to add my name, as I have found some people I have been looking for. Can I trust it? I am out and have been since 1989.

I am in Michigan too, where are yous

Someone said twi is going back to the vpw days. What does that mean? Is lechery coming back. Will RR prance around in her underwear and invite girls back to the motorcoach? Who's books will be plagiarized now? What obscure Indian minister will expound on arcane cultural aspects of scripture. And who will be the next lcm to take over? Just asking.

My chronology TWI 1942- the India trip 1950s -1964 teaching mainstream doctrine 1964-1969 Pfal put on film, deviations from mainstream theology 1970-1976 Jesus movement taken advantage of, looser mentality, but changes came when vpw pulled coup in Way East and Way West. 1977-1980 age of classes at large universities PFAL 77 at Ball State and Advanced Class 79 at Ohio U. 1981-1985 twi goes corporate, wow auditorium plans made, aos made vpw steps down 1986-1990 lcm keeps things rolling until POP and then loyalty oaths, purges start. 1991-now total legalism creeps in forever changing heart of ministry.

In twi late 70s, there was a teaching that the word fantasy came from the same greek word that produces phantom. So fantasies were evil, but ideas weren't. So someone could come up with a song/book/play and that was OK, but dreams were not. Superman could be construed as devilish because its about a man not from earth who comes to save/serve mankind. Athletes of the spirit with its emphasis on demons and glorified man over God was OK. t

1.Greed 2.Tom Green 3. Howard Stern 4. Law and Order SVU 5. Rosie 6. Galactica 1980 7. Three's company 8. High Chapparal 9. After Mash 10. Cagney and lacy 11. NYPD blue 12. Where John Goodman played a gay guy 13. Will and Grace 14. Friends 15. Pax 16. WB 17. Voyager 18. Suddenly Susan 19. Medical Center 20. I can't go on

Twi held Spock from Star Trek in high regard. No emotions (did Lcm get that tape?) and no feeligs. Seems like all they cared about was themselves. I remember one speaker talking about the way purposefully did not reach out to people with problems (alcohol) but was focused on the word. Let other ministries take care of those people was the thought. So I grew calloused toward causes, thinking only twi deserved my money. Now I find it hard to give to my church. But I cry for the children.

Even in the way, which is as much a scam as Amway, i tried herbalife, politics (only 3rd parties and fringe groups for me. I got into sexual addiction and the like. I go to church now and take it in small bites and steps.