def59

I remember getting all hot and bothered by the John Todd tapes. And for getting reamed on Christmas by my way home coord for not pulling out the stove when it was my turn to keep the kitchen clean. Seems the idea that there might be crumbs afoot while he and and the wife were cooking their christmas dinner was too unsettling. Mind you, he apologized ? two years later!_

the advice I wish I had listened to when I was in TWI came in 1979 from my mom "Get out of it."

There's always the Patriot Act, that should scare any reasonable person.

I am trying to stop the posts from coming to my e-mail site. How can I do this? I changed everything in MySpot, but nothing helps. I don't want to get any more posts, at least not now. As for the reasons, I believe God does not want me here any more — if he ever did. My wife and friends at church are happy with my decision and I am too. So how can I disconnect?m

I want to part company with greaspot and I don't know how to break my connection.P

No subtitles? Interesting. Better bring along John S. to interpret.o

Did you know Jars Clay's recond company is now owned by Larry Flynt?

I am not ashamed ? Newsboys Favorite song of all ? PCD Long time ? Boston China Grove ? Doobie Brothers Jesus Freak ? DC Talk Talk about Me ? Toby Keith Red white and Blue ? Toby Keith The List ? Toby Keith Should have been a Cowboy ? Toby Keith Saturday Night Fever soundtrack

Thanks Raf. I was just wondering about your thoughts. I like to read your responses to Mike and since we are both in the media, it keeps me sharp on some other aspects of the craft. God Bless Deff

Does anyone take into account John Jedues' work here. I have read some of it and it sounds good. In light of this thread, does anyone or has anyone talked about it?M

ditto word

In pfal we learned how vpw interpreted the Bible. On the Associated Press wires today, I found this story about reactions the Left Behind series and thought it had some interesting points about Dispensationalism, which is what vpw believed, he just used the word administration. I think it is pertinent for our discussion since Mike is so sold out to way theology. Here's a portion of the story. Carl E. Olson in ?Will Catholics Be ?Left Behind??: A Catholic Critique of the Rapture and Today?s Prophecy Preachers? (Ignatius).Olson is as well-informed on this as Burge, since he was trained in the ?Dispensationalist? theology that underlies the ?Left Behind? series and similar books. He studied at Briercrest Bible College in Caronport, Saskatchewan, but converted to Catholicism in 1997 and now defends his newfound church in Envoy and This Rock magazines. Olson objects that the popular End Times scenarios have a low regard for the church and Christian tradition. In addition, he says, Dispensationalism recognizes ?little or no continuity between the Israel of the Old Testament and the New Testament church.? In certain variants, even New Testament teachings are sometimes seen as not applying to Christians, only to Israel. Dispensationalist teachers, Olson contends, ?have inserted divisions and distinctions in Scripture, often arbitrary and artificial in nature,? that are not self-evident in the Bible itself. One important problem, he continues, is that apocalyptic and poetic writings (especially Revelation) are interpreted as literal forecasts rather than as symbolic messages to the church. Olson concludes that the literalist view ?is a fabrication inconsistent in practice and misleading in theory.? The Christian position on the End Times, he says, has always been simply this: ?Christ will return with and for his saints; he will judge all of mankind; time will end; and eternity will begin.? The same viewpoint underlies ?Whose Land? Whose Promise?: What Christians Are Not Being Told About Israel and the Palestinians? (Pilgrim) by Gary M. Burge, a Bible professor at Wheaton College, an evangelical school in Illinois. As Burge?s title implies, his chief concern is fellow evangelicals? uncritical support for whatever Israel does and neglect of Palestinian justice claims. He focuses hard on the widespread evangelical belief (shared with West Bank settlers and some other Jews) that Israel has a rightful claim to all territory between Egypt and Iraq?s Euphrates River because of God?s land grant in Genesis 15:18. Burge says the Bible teaches that the gift of the Holy Land never required dispossession of non-Israelites from their homes and lands. In fact, biblical law is notable for giving full rights to non-Israelite neighbors, he says. He also says in the biblical understanding, the gift of land is conditioned on faithfulness to God, citing for instance God?s words in Deuteronomy 4:25-40 just before the Israelites conquered Canaan. Religious infidelity, God warned, would mean that the nation would be destroyed, the promised land lost and the people scattered among the nations. Both books are vigorous and interesting, but unlikely to make much of a dent in the End Times audience being built by radio and TV evangelists and popular writers.

Sorry for how it came out, but my irrelevant remark was meant as sarcasm. No human being is irrelevant. t

i believe that vpw learned something from a god. I am not sure it was the true God. Yes, he taught Bible, but heck, even Satan knows the Bible. He claims to have been the leader only in the Holy Spirit and dead alive now fields. But he ALLOWED others to fawn over him like he was the Prophet or something more. But his claims that he would teach the world like it had not been taught since the first century is a claim made by many others (JW's, Mormon's, Worldwide Church of God -before they repented, and other pentecostal groups) He overstated claims of academic credentials is a minor point to some, a major ones to others. His plagiarizing is a fact. What everyone wants to do with it is their business. I no longer follow the PFAL method for interpreting scriptures and have thrown away all my way stuff: Pfal, holy spirit, collaterals, JCING, adan, seed, and aramaic bible. To me, it is all the work of Satan, because it denies Christ as He is, God the Father who he is and the Holy Spirit as he is and makes him out to be something lest than what God says he is. We can all banter about the minutiae of vpw's words and what he meant or didn't mean. Mike is pretty well convinced as I am of the opposite view. But vpw is dead, lcm is defrocked and the rest are running an incredibly shrinking empire. Could that say something to the fruit of vpw's ministry? To Mike, probably not.

Dallas Holm Phillips, Craig and Dean Steven Curtis Champman The Gaithers Selah ~

don't take this personally, but the key here is that you are irrelevant. Def

I think for the most part this thread gives men a place to rip into something without making it personal or physical. I don't mike is having the effect he thinks, rather I think most of the posters ( I am guessing) are men who like the banter and discussion here. We are mostly trying to top another with a stinging comeback or tough question for Mike. Mike, in essence, is irrelevant. He is the bogeyman, the ghost, that we are contesting. For all his rantings, writings and ravings, he is really not important to our postings.' We could insert any name here and be just as happy.

I was in charlotte NC, Dave T. was my Limb leader and Randy Anderson my Region leader.

God "tolerates" sin in the sense that he is slow to anger and abounding mercy. But make no mistake he abhors it, despises and detests it. The children of Israel's entering the promised land was judgement on the Canaanites there, who after 400 years of sin, receieved their punishment. God says the sins of the father are found into the third and fourth generation. As others have stated, Jesus came to our planet to die for us as a perfect sacrifice. Not because he tolerates it, but because He loves us so much he wanted to make a way out that would last. This is why God is being merciful with you, because he is rich in mercy. He wants you to come back to Him and leave this doctrine of devils you are so consumed by. Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit ALL want you to repent and come home.a

Mike, You will lose me by referring to JCiNG, and like books. I don't agree with vpw's conclusions, premises or logic on any of those subjects anymore. As for Jesus' words on reaching the Gentiles, it wasn't a change, it was fulfillment of OT prophecy that of the promise God made to Abraham. While it is true that we are no longer the law and we should shun legalism (you know, if we don't do things like you do then it can't be right mentality.) What we must do is allow God to speak through the Scriptures, faith comes by hearing (gasp 5 senses) and hearing by the word of God. To teach that the Pauline epistles have pre-eminence over any other scripture is ludicrous. I love his letters, don't get me wrong. But Luke and John and Matthew and Mark also did a good job. And I want to learn what Jesus had to say while he was on this earth. After all, He meant it!s

It will 25 years since I went WOW and I may see one of my WOW brothers soon.

Oak Which Turtledove book is your favorite? I am reading the series based on the premise the South won the Civil War. Def

Mike, First, thanks for finally responding, I feel so blessed.:0 All of Jesus' words carry the same weight. When you are The Way, they tend to that. The problem with elevating Paul's letters above any other scripture is that it tends to diminish Jesus' words as mentioned in the Gospels. I believe that we should take the whole Word of God and not just certain verses "as written to us." Too often we, who were in TWI, had a tendency to dismiss Jesus and elevate Paul which led us to elevate vpw. But we should also take a look at James, John and Peter's letters as well. Those verses also tell us what we, in the church, should do and act. All, of this must be done in light of Jesus, who is the Word made Flesh.

Mike, First, thanks for finally responding, I feel so blessed.:0 All of Jesus' words carry the same weight. When you are The Way, they tend to that. The problem with elevating Paul's letters above any other scripture is that it tends to diminish Jesus' words as mentioned in the Gospels. I believe that we should take the whole Word of God and not just certain verses "as written to us." Too often we, who were in TWI, had a tendency to dismiss Jesus and elevate Paul which led us to elevate vpw. But we should also take a look at James, John and Peter's letters as well. Those verses also tell us what we, in the church, should do and act. All, of this must be done in light of Jesus, who is the Word made Flesh.

I always try to get through one Michener novel a year. I used to like Tom Clancy. Raf, I too am reading the New Living Translation and find it a powerful book. Have you tried the Message? Lucado is good. I like Chuck Swindoll. I also reading alternative history novels by Harry Turtledove. Left Behind books can't be as bad as the movie.