def59

Hi all, I got in some people's faces a couple weeks back and then disappeared. I will apologize if I went too far. Just for anyone who cares, I have busy at work and within my church. I am pursuing some Reformed theology web sites, so that's another reason why my posts have stopped. Everyone have a great Memorial Day, and if you can, thank a vet! Def

I left, because posting was taking too much of my time from other more nobler pursuits. Oh, you meant twi, my bad.

Raf You said Hebrews 1 convinced you that Jesus is Not God. How so? 1 v2 says the worlds were made through Jesus, the greek dia meaning by. 2. v3 says the Son is the exact representation of the Father. and that the Son maintains all things by his powerful word also why would the angels worship the son? why would God say about Jesus "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. and Galen, et al. "1. The Father is greater than the Son and therefore they are not equal." I agree that they are not equal in strength or power. def- the Father and the son are not the same person, but they share a level of equality as part of the Godhead. "2. The Father has (or had) knowledge of the timing of future events that He did not share with the Son." I agree. Def-So? "3. Points 1 and 2 lead me to the conclusion that Jesus Christ is not God." I agree. Def- I don't, I used to, but not anymore. "4. Hebrews 1, through employment of the figure of speech erotesis . . . states that Jesus Christ is not "an angel," I agree. Def-Again, so what? He is called the creator and sustainor, what angel has that authority? "5. If Jesus Christ is not God and not an angel, then he did not exist prior to his birth, and scriptural implications to the contrary need to be explained in light of that understanding. Def-That's a big if Raf, basing a theology on an understanding of one section of scripture. Since there are so many verses that point to his pre-existence (and not foreknowledge as vpw suggested) then you should do more study. Any explanation of those proof texts that does not address the identity of Jesus Christ as a man whose existence began at birth are, in my opinion, invalid." Def- Bully for you. I think you have missed the point entirely, still falling suspect to vpw devilish doctrines. I think I see a error here. While I agree that Jesus Christ is not our Heavenly Father, I agree that Jesus Christ is not an angel, and I agree that Jesus Christ did not live before he was born. However logic would not conclude this. "Could Jesus have existed prior to his birth without being God or an angel?" As was discussed previously, the idea of time-line skipping that would enable Moses and Elijah to both show up and rap with Jesus, and both return to their own times, all without disturbing the idea that they both died and are now awaiting the return. Just as Paul needed to travel forward to see the return, to build his hope, so Moses and Elijah needed Hope. Since both Moses and Elijah knew Jesus personally, it could be said that Jesus' presence was known before his birth. One thing about Heaven, there is no time there. There is an eternal now. God lives there, so His understanding of the universe and eternity is far greater than ours. Jesus' parable about the rich man and Lazarus seems to indicate that people do experience some level of consciousness in the afterlife right after death. The point I keep bringing up is that we were in a group called a cult for a reason. Our doctrines were not God-inspired. Stop rebelling and find your way back to the orthodox faith. For many, I would suggest James White's Alpha-Omega Ministries Web site. It may challenge you in your faith.

Who's your favor non-twi (offshoots included) teacher/preacher/philosopher I have several, including Chuck Swindoll, Charles Stanley and now Rick Warren.

Well sir, My motto always has been, if you can't laugh with me, at least laugh at me. :D-->

Uncle H I believe the being running twi is the same one as has since vpw went on his quest. Sounds like hatan.

But that was then, this is now, times and people change.

GW is like all the other nazis, just like Big B-b in S.Diego,

Mike seems to be their biggest threat. If can succeed at resurrecting vpw worship, the leadersh*p will be challenged. A turn to Mike's devotion would have disastrous effects on them.

setting up for meetings. feigning the more abundant life. laughing at vpw's dumb jokes.

my top ten 1. the class. I am sorry, but doc would go on and on and on beating a point to death. I got the idea around the first five minutes of a session and then fought off sleep for the rest. 2. door to door - a truly useless exercise 3. bless patrol - at least for me it was being shoved off into a corner at ROA 4. Anytime doc taught-really I learned more from the books than any film strip, film or audio or video tape. The man was downright boring.

Sometimes I wonder if the offshoots aren't working in cahoots with twi.

Isn't it funny that a group that tried so hard to be as different from church as possible ended up being so fundamentalist and legalistic?

OM You need to check the bible again about what practices will keep one out of heaven.

I hope that will be a rush job.

We learned these things because the BoD and BoT were charter members of the Keepers Of Odd Knowledge Society.

I tossed all my pifle books and tapes in 1991. Still no regrets.

OM you posted April 28, 2004 16:55 "wouldn't even help one of their own people" have lots of mixed feelings about this. on the one hand, you'd think they should've helped when there was a need; on the other, should ABS money be used like that? don't know... What do you think ABS is for? Check the book of Acts again. We are to help each other when one is hurting. Ministering to each other goes beyond a class or a fellowship.

I believe demons can oppress Christians.

I remember some leader praising groups like the Salvation Army, because helping alcoholics was their focus or purpose. Since ours was biblical research, we didn't have to help others in that way.

I was in the two-drink movement as long as one defines a drink as 12 cans!

who is he?

the pic of loy was a hoot. Paul?!?! Who did the beard? George clooney's was more realistic in O brother where are thou? I thought for sure mike would have chimed in advancing his mogfat theology for ole vic.

OM Believe what you want.

Om But can't you see when a leader takes advantage of the follower that is the big sin. Yes God will hold us all accountable for our actions, but to focus on the victim and let the criminal goes free is why it so hard for women to come forward when they are raped or abused. Get out of the Stone Age and see the world for what it is. And take a fresh look at PFAL and see how vpw uses most of it to tear at the word to pump up his own (wink, wink) conclusions. He sets himself up as the man of God, receives adulation and glory from his minions and then returns the favor by taking advantage of it.