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All the apostles died and some in the witness of others. Paul was beheaded, as was James. Peter died by crucifixion. No one vanished into thin air. I am sorry, but I cannot equate Buddha with any man in the Bible. Men, yes, but that's it. Buddha was an earthly prince who set up a faith based on him. Jesus is an eternal king. I came to this thread late. But I would caution anyone to avoid Hinn like the plague. His teachings are off, his theology weak. And his motive appears to be greed. Have you seen his rallies? Where he throws the holy spirit around? Better to look at works by Billy Graham, Franklin Graham, Max Lucado, Chuck Swindoll and Charles Stanley. Avoid most of the TBN crowd.

Off the cuff answer: duh ? Reflective: If I hadn't gone through twi I never would have appreciated Jesus (as God) like I do now.

Everything except the show that comes on at 10 p.m on Wednesdays on NBC.

johniam you can be a unitarian and be possessed. The burden of proof weighs on unitarians to disprove the deity of Christ.s

I go to Promise Keepers and they charge $59-$79 for a ticket, provide a boxed lunch. Lodging is up to you. Mostly we have stayed at other churches.

When trinitarians say that Jesus is God, they are not saying he is the Father. Jesus was both fully human (which allowed him to be tested/tempted and suffer the constraints of being locked in to his earthsuit) but he was also fully divine (and could say "before Abraham, I am" "I and the Father are one" and "He who has seen me has seen the Father.") So Johniam, when your pastor was talking about the Jesus' struggles with trust or obedience, he was not being anti-trinitarian.t

Johniam: You said: What have I kept from PFAL? 1) Salvation is by grace (Romans 10:9&10). Me - yep, but that came before pfal. 2) SIT. me- not so sure TWI had it right. 3) JC is not God. me- I am convinced otherwise. 4) The dead are dead. me ? not necessarily. 5) The gathering together will happen before the events of the book of Revelation. me- most definitely not. 6) Prayer in the spirit lifts the burden better than prayer with the understanding. me ? see No.2 7) The 7 church epistles are in order according to doctrine, reproof, and correction. me- not so sure, and there were nine letters (Corinthins and Thessalonians) and the idea came from Bullinger. 8) You can't lose incorruptible seed. me- depends on who you talk to. 9) Religion is the biblical opposite of godliness. me- this was taught by the most religious (legalistic) man I know. 10) The bible interprets itself. 11) Puctuation, chapters, verses, paragraphs, page headings, etc. are man made and have no divine authority in rightly dividing the word. me - true, but this doctrine allowed vpw to change the Bible to fit what he wanted it to say. 12) Christ did not say why have you forsaken me, but rather, for this purpose was I spared (cry of triumph). me ? he did say it, because he was quoting Psalms. 13) God doesn't kill people. me- God allows things to happen for His purposes. He is sovereign. 14) The old testament, the gospels, and the book of Revelation are not written to the church of grace. me- this was a nice dodge by vpw that allowed him to negate the words of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Christ founded the church, created the world, so his words are definitely written to me.

Maybe this has been done before, but I told my wife a joke I heard in the Way. Q: Who was the most flexible man in the Bible? A: Balaam, he tied his *** to a tree and walked 40 miles! So I was wondering if anyone knew any other Way jokes.

VPW did teach in pfal and it was stressed elsewhere that sin was a bad word choice. We were taught to call to broken fellowship.

I learned how proper it was for a man of god to have a porn collection and how it was OK to look at films of women and animals having sex so long as it was to be able to counsel someone.

I confess, my first time session 12 it was all a lie. I started rambling and words came out. I have doubted my tongues experience from time to time. I can still do it, but it sound so fake. As for my interpretation and prophecy, I tried to be genuine, but there was so much crap how am I to know?

The phrase "the way" mentioned in Acts, was a very common term used by many religious sects and causes at the time.

In light of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, it could be said that vpw was never saved and did not enter into the kingdom. I find it hard to believe that he was ever saved, what with all his doubt, hatred, fear and sexual problems. Alot of people can know the Bible, but to twist it like he did makes me wonder. But let God be the judge and the rest of us learners from vpw's mistakes.

I think we need Mike now to offer some balance or maybe Galen.?

Lorna The (cough-cough) research department worked to prove the statements made the MOGs. Any actual independent research that contradicted the stated positions of the MOGs and BOT (BOD) were met with dismissal (see John S.'s work on adultery). TWI did not research to find truth, only to back up prestated beliefs and to find the most obscure interpretations available.

Let's not forget that VPW didn't like the word sin. He called it broken fellowship. A much softer sounding phrase and less demanding of a holy lifestyle.

PFAL= The Way to Hell that does have a nice ring to it.

Galen We have let Mike talk. and talk and talk and talk and talk. But he never says anything. He keeps promising to share some deep revelation gleaned from the tapes of vpw (rhymes with pee-eww) All he gives us is his personal interpretation of what Herr Doktor said. Or what Mike's thinks vic said. Mike wants to believe vp was God's man for our time fine that's his right. But there's alot of us here who are exercising our right to dissent. Mike needs to not only talk, but listen, and not to the barbs thrown his way ? which I have slung I will admit. But also to the clear and reasoned arguments opposed to his viewpoints. I don't always like to hear what those opposed to my pov have to say ? take our banter on sexual purity for example ? but I will listen. r

Mike Maybe we could talk about how to spell check that would help Roy communincate better. Roy you wrote fare when you meant fair Am I wright?

Ok There's 20 minutes I won't get back. I will continue to believe in the Trinity. It still makes more sense than Modalism. Branham or Oneness Pentacostals. But all those do have a ring of wierwillism.e

Raf From what I read, the heresy of Arius was a direct threat to the church and the council was called by Constantine, who initally favored Arius, and then the mood the of council changed when the orthodox church prevailed. for anyone who is interested, check this site. It's an article called "A Hammer Struck At Heresy" What exactly happened at the famous Council of Nicea, when the Roman emperor convened some 250 quarreling Christian bishops? by Robert Payne http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/51h/51h011.htmlo"A Hammer Struck at Heresy"i

Sounds like all these guys were disciples of Arius. He promoted the idea that Jesus was a man way back in the third or fourth century A.D. That's why the Council of Nicea was covened — to put an end to his heresy. If you want more, go to Christianity Today's Web site and a look up their critique of the DaVinci Code.,

Wonder, As many others have said, don't be misled by the notion that Twi is the standard bearer of truth. I too felt alone when I left, the church, I felt, was filled with pagans, devil spirits and seed boys. That is, until I actually went to one. Sure I didn't agree with all their doctrines (still don't) but there is such a big world out there that to limit your understanding to twi is a great disservice to your intellect and integrity. Please reconsider. TwI was bad enough for you to leave once, don't return to the vomit again.,

he just christianized it.