spectrum49

Hi again, Dot! Lots of stuff in those LYRICS! Lots of heart. I wish you well. Sent you a letter. Now I'm looking at your posts since I started writing it. (This is just so you know I didn't read them FIRST -- Ha! Ha!) Your Friend, SPEC

Dot said... Yet in scripture they are saying to Jesus (paraphrased) I worked hard for you - let me in. Like they believe it. Unless, their last con is to try and con them. Some are wolves in sheeps clothing - I think they know they are a wolf. But these verses seemed to challange that. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe also that they know they are wolves. Do they see their own clothing they are wearing? Did they dress themselves? It appears to me they intentionally and knowingly made themselves to look like sheep with the intent on fooling people. (reminds me of Goldilocks, looking like grandma!) And when they appear to give an answer for themselves, I don't think they are doing anything but trying to TEMPT, just as Satan did before God Himself (in Job). He knew better also! However, there are still those who have nothing and just think they do. They are just plain ignorant and don't truly realize what the hell they are really doing. (fools) I'm just glad I am not the judge! They will be sorely disappointed when they are told, "I never knew you."!! ================================================================= Powerful stuff here, all -- What an enormous responsibility have the prophets, whoever they are! Sometimes I wonder if there is mercy and grace available for them in the event they "blow it" and speak the wrong thing at times, as we all do. To be very honest, I am not sure about all that. Sounds like LAW to me...and the verses quoted in this post about the "strictness" of these OT prophets' sayings ARE IN THE OT, under law. Do you suppose NT prophets have some "leeway" at times? How about a "sub-thread" here, on "Do the prophets KNOW they are TRUE PROPHETS?" (Ha!) I would love to hear others' "opinions" in this matter. Otherwise, who the hell would even desire such a "gift" these days? It would be akin to walking a greased tightrope without a net! SPEC :)

Why, thank you Waysider! I have to admit I was rather proud when I penned "Doctor Wierd-wille". I sort of made that one up "on the spot". I have not seen it elsewhere. (HA!) If if has already been thought of, I do hope I don't become accused of plagiarism myself! (Har! Har!) Spec

To be quite honest, folks - although I rather now despise TWI for what they have done, I must admit that (for me) it was the first place I heard things about God and the scriptures which made at least "some sense", and am thankful in a way for that. Surely, I could have picked up on a few "keys to understanding the scriptures" in other places and times as I lived, but that was where I did receive quite a few things "packaged up together", which I had not already realized. Sure...I grew up knowing a bit about semantics, etc, because I was one of the few "grammar nuts" in school. Sure...anyone knows about reading for "context" (the "whole story"). Many many things in PFAL were so obvious already! But I did enjoy learning about how "italic words" (in the KJV) were not in the Greek texts, for instance. I also enjoyed learning about concordances, lexicons, and other "research material" which I knew nothing about whatsoever. I would probably never have been introduced to E.W. Bullinger's remarkable works on my own if they had not been so "wonderfully plagiarized" by "Doctor Wierd-wille", and others. If I took the time, I could mention many other things in the "package" which I was glad to hear about for the first time. I "gleaned" what I could, and eventually moved on. As for the question at hand "What am I doing with them now?"... The same as I always did: I still love to study and learn. I check things out for myself, and keep my eyes and ears open to others so I might continue learning when I see something which makes more sense to me than what I have, and I adopt that instead (in Way-Jargon, that is "renewing your mind", I suppose). Personally, I think it is rather ludicrous for a "Biblical Research Ministry" to have no Biblical Research Department!! -- The "BRC" was replaced long long ago. The "Way College of Biblical Research" in Emporia KS and its sister facility, "The Indiana Campus", were among the first things to go when the suffering Way needed more $$$. I still enjoy researching the scriptures with they keys I already knew, or learned about, or picked up later either by my own observation or from others. Basically, nothing has changed. I came there looking for answers, and got a few. I left there and got even more. On a recent thread here, for instance, I just realized that the "more abundant life" is not about THINGS in abundance in a person's life, or necessarily the quality of his possesstions, but about an "abundance of TRUTH". That is what Jesus Christ came "that we might have". I will always want more of that, and am happy that I learned how to find it for myself. Thanks for listening! SPEC

Just fine, I suppose...(It's a "free country")...just as long as they STAY OUTSIDE, and don't try to come into THE HOUSE! :lol: SPEC

edited for deletion...post not intended after all

edited for deletion...post not intended after all

Hi Dot! Just read your disheartening story. You were certainly under some very austere circumstances. I consider it a brave thing you did to relate this incident, which probably was very difficult to write as you remembered vividly the horrid details. But for the sake of others reading your post who may themselves be in similar trouble, I am proud that what you had written contains much about how you persevered through it all, and came out of it in the end, for that will be of immense help to them. I do wish your desire for a true and meaningful relationship with a loving man will materialize in the future -- and soon; that is, if you still want it. You are most deserving of it! Love, Spec PS: I also offer you a poem I wrote many years ago. I do hope you enjoy it... Something Worth Giving Is there something worth giving you can give to a friend? Do it now while he’s living; do not wait till the end. Though one’s mind holds all mysteries, knowledge and faith, His deeds won’t be history without love; there’s no trace. While bestowing one’s treasures to feeding the poor, He can give without measure, yet one thing is sure: Even giving his life for a great, noble cause Will profit him nothing; without God’s love it’s lost. Charity is giving God’s love to mankind, And it’s given with cheerfulness; it’s not hard to find. So study His word and share to begin, And you’ll see that God’s charity is right there within. Whatever you do for God, do it with might! And share it with charity; fight the good fight. So give what’s worth giving; God’s keeping the score; So that now and in heaven you’ll receive your rewards.

OH MY GOD, mstar1! :lol: SPEC

A friend of mine took this candid photo of what this little guy's sister did to him! What a riot! (except for the mommy!) :lol: Click on the pic to see it enlarged. Enjoy! Spec PS: Forget the stuff below the picture...I don't know how to delete it....

DrWearWord, Although Jesus was human and had emotions as we all do, I believe he had full control of them. I believe he purposely "allowed" this weeping so that others could see and appreciate the compassion he had. In the context we can see his desire for others to see the empathy he had with them over such a loss. We see this in the context..... 33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled, NOTE: IMHO, he was not troubled terribly as they were, but was rather alerted to the situation by this "troubled feeling". (Perhaps this "feeling" was revelation to him from His Father.) 34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see. 35 Jesus wept. 36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him! If he had truly been so agitated and remorseful, then how can we explain his confidence and faith to raise Lazaraus from the dead later on in the context, as he had tried to imply to Martha earlier in the context? Spec PS: Perhaps you already understood this yourself, but were checking to see if others agreed with you?

Back in the 70's I worked as a "roadie". I had the rare opportunity to work backstage for Peter Frampton. It was among his first "gigs" in America after having done well in England. He did a show for merely $5000 in a rather run-down theater which held only 300. We could tell he was not very pleased with the place. I saw his guitar case backstage and opened it to see a BEAUTIFUL black Gibson. I play a bit myself, but am rather better at tuning them. As I plucked the strings, I noticed the high E string (the last one) was a bit flat, so I tuned it up. Little did I realize that if Peter had known that, I would be in BIG TROUBLE! To him, it is like BB King to his "Lucile". I had the pleasure of escorting him across the street for a Live Interview with a local FM station (in Dayton Ohio). He was rather short, but gets up there a bit with 5" platforms. We talked about lots of stuff (but didn't smoke any together...ha! ha!) and had a good time. When he played "Do You Feel Like I Do", you should have heard those 300 sound like 3000! WOW! Such an amazing talent he has! Later on, he made it big with his "Frampton Comes Alive" album which went gold, and then platimum. We tried to get him back, but he was BIG CHEESE by then and the phone call ended with a remark from him I will not say here...har har... So much for my "claim to fame". Spec

This is just a silly comparrison. I was wondering if any of you might agree with me to some extent... Do you see some resemblance between these? The new JQ Adams presidential dollar coin AND The Creature from the Black Lagoon I do.... Spec

Right on leafytwiglet! As a matter of fact, that is exactly why I left TWI. I did study on my own, using the "tools" they supplied me with. All seemed fine unless I found a "different slant" on something which made more sense. Trying to show the "leadershi*" was like pulling teeth! I eventually found something so wonderful it would have blown their socks off! However, in order to see THAT, it was necessary to "tweak" a couple of things which had been taught wrong since the beginning, concerning "administrations". After probably "too long", I gave up on them, finally acknowledging their apparent APATHY. They were (and ARE, and always HAVE BEEN) steeped in their own tradition. I like to view it this way - As Jesus Christ came to "his own" and was rejected, he said "Lo, I turn to the Gentiles". In my own way, I say the same. They had their shot at it, and blew it. Now it is far from them, and so am I! I finally understand their "take" on the following verse: Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. They believe it means to get to the point that you see what they found was CORRECT. If otherwise, it may be necessary to read your "blue book" again for the 100th time! HA! But we know different, 'cause we can think for ourselves instead of being the mindless puppets they wanted us to be. Let them stay STAGNANT! Let their numbers, and their land, and their holdings, and their finances continue to dwindle until there is nothing left at all! Spec :) PS: leafytwiglet: Thanks for the help and compliment with my avatar the other day. (There is much behind that....LOL!)

BUT HUMOROUS Spec :D

It seems that there may be quite a bit of interest in LIGHT within this thread, so I will speak a bit myself – for both “science lovers” and for “lovers of the Bible” – but especially for those who like to see how the two equate together. A well known and brilliant Astrophysicist (Bernard Haisch) made an important discovery along with some of his colleagues in the following article which begins: Brilliant Disguise: Light, Matter and the Zero-Point Field Is matter an illusion? Is the universe floating on a vast sea of light, whose invisible power provides the resistance that gives to matter its feeling of solidity? Astrophysicist Bernhard Haisch and his colleagues have followed the equations to some compelling -- and provocative -- conclusions. Link to short article My understanding is that even if they are correct in assuming the Light in Genesis One represents the Zero-Point (Energy) Field, that in itself is still a physical thing which God MADE, so consider the following: Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: The above verse indicates that much can be understood about the invisible things [spiritual matters] and even about God’s eternal power and Godhead merely by observing what is BEHIND these physical things. (And BTY, Genesis One contains many of these things which are made, which can lead to much understanding by observing their spiritual counterparts, behind the scenes, so to speak!) Now, as I was saying, even if Bernard Haisch is correct, he has only found yet another physical thing which was made, and behind it is more! Whatever man can find and examine has yet something else behind it – and behind that – to infinity!! As for Light, it has many meanings: truth, good, wisdom, the written scriptures, (Jesus Christ was also called “great light”), and do remember that God called himself Light! And darkness is just the opposite of light. It is evident that LIGHT encompasses just about everything! God is using that term to try to explain many many things about the universe, life, science and physics, etc, and not to forget – even those are only representative of the other side! (reminds me a bit of The Matrix – ha! ha!). Consider even our computers which work on binary. Light and darkness equate to the 1’s and 0’s which produce EVERYTHING a computer can do! Logically, things are either TRUE or FALSE and YES or NO (gates may be OPEN or CLOSED). Switches (transistors) may be ON or OFF (+15v or 0v), etc. Even our brains run on binary. We compare only two thoughts at a time, render a result and compare the next item to that finding. (try adding 1+2+3 = 6). You can only test two numbers at a time, and add the next to it. Even the most complex algorithms are based upon BINARY! Light and darkness represent the same things, and even wisdom or folly...etc... Now, speaking of physical light, it is true that we only see a tiny portion of the entire spectrum of light. We see what is termed the Visible Spectrum. That is what God has designed our eyes to see. And we should endeavor (for the most part) to stay within that boundary. It is interesting to note that Genesis One does contain the visible spectrum, starting with Light, which may be refracted into colors (for those who know: ROY-G-BIV). For those who have eyes to see, it is all there! But be ever mindful that whatever you do find or discover in the physical realm has something else behind it – and behind that – and behind that – FOREVER!! Ponder these things, my friends! Spec :)

I first took PFAL in 1975 and went WOW in ’77. It was sort of funny preparing to go “on the field”. Some things “came up” which tried to dissuade me from keeping my promise to go. I remember well the conversation I had with my father (who really didn’t approve of this “cult”) just prior to leaving… “You are what?!” he said, “You are letting your car get repossessed because you are not supposed to have any debts before you go? And you are turning down a job offer for twice what you ever made in your life? And you are leaving a new girl friend behind? And you even told me that one of your higher-up ministers [Walter Cummins] is taking a giant step “down” to lead the twig you are in? And for all this, you are taking off with 3 people you haven’t even met yet to go somewhere in the country that you don’t even know about? And when you get there you won’t have a place to stay, or a job waiting? Melvin…..you’re NUTS!!” (Note: In hindsight, I guess it was a little stupid, huh? Ha! Ha!) We left for Wheeling WV on a Saturday morning (just after the ROA was over, of course) and had to camp out in a KOA for a week when we got there. (2 guys – 2 girls) We woke up the following Saturday to discover that the guy who drove us had left already and was heading back home to California – and all my “little memories” were in his trunk. I had only kept the “most important things”, as was suggested by the leadership. (I never got them back!) He had been complaining about not having a home to stay in. However, we found housing that same day. The landlady looked at me kinda funny with those two girls. I felt like Jack Tripper in “Three’s Company”! During the year, one of the girls got involved with someone I had witnessed to and had taken the class. She got back into drugs with him and left. The other girl fell in love with a nice guy who had been coming, who had also taken the class, and had two cute young boys from a previous marriage. (Instant family for her!) SO – I was alone the rest of the year from about March to August. (I somehow managed to “peddle” two more classes) I admit that in some ways it was the best year of my life. It’s not so much that the ministry was looking after me, but I did learn to trust God, who always seemed to come through for me. I had been somewhat afraid to be on my own for the first time, and that happened. But all was OK; it wasn’t so bad after all, learning to pay rent and bills and cook for myself. After the year was over, I married a waitress from where I had been working my part-time job all year. (the marriage lasted 9 years) There is a lot more to the story, but I’ve typed enough for now, so will let you all go. Thanks for listening. Spec

Wow Wordwolf! What you showed was so right-on! I believe this topic is now covered in sufficient enough detail! It is amazing how the people involved seemed to know LCM's very heart, thinking, motives, ego, pride, concerning all aspects of this AOS project. They were no fools, including you. By the way, I had to chuckle at your mention of "Gunnysack". Ha! Ha! I get a kick out of stuff like that here at GreaseSpot, like "Loy-Boy" and "PLAF", etc. How silly it all seems now, looking back. Thanks for the heart - and especially the "levity"! Spec

Thanks for the assistance WordWolf! I am rather new here, and should have realized this is an old topic. Who here at GreaseSpot could not have noticed such a blatant similarity between these two productions? (My wife and I rather saw this on our own, though.) However, your response caused me to study just a bit about the site here and learn how to use their wonderful SEARCH ENGINE! I learned how to use boolean operators to narrow the search and also noticed it seems best to "list the matches as posts". I simply entered: +staying +alive +athletes +spirit. The results were few and simple. Thank you for "alerting me" about this nice feature, and have a good day! :) Spec

Hi All! Did TWI base its presentation of “Athletes of the Spirit” on the same theme which was behind the movie “Staying Alive”? I should have noticed this long ago myself when it first came out. Nevertheless, my wife brought this to my attention recently, so I first watched the movie and then TWI’s “original” production again on VHS, finding so many similarities that it I CANNOT BELIEVE they are coincidental! I’ve made up MY MIND – you decide for yourself – here are some facts: First of all, consider the timing. “Staying Alive”, starring John Travolta was released in mid-1983, and was a major success. Allow a few months to a year or so for the public to either see it at the movies or wait until its release in the video stores. Now it is mid-1984. Consider TWI choosing this “hot idea” to EMMULATE. Allow about a year or so to write the script, build sets, score music, have TWI orchestra learn the score, the players memorize their lines and practice the choreography. Then after all of that, try teaching LCM how to “dance” – if you can really call it that – HEY! – better make it at least another 6 months after that thought! We are now around the beginning of 1986. Give ‘em all another 6 months to rehearse it and VOILA! – You are now pretty damn near the Fall of 1986 – “Athletes of the Spirit” was released in the Autumn of 1986. Now, I could be sorely mistaken, but it sure looks to me like they didn’t waste any time considering, except to get busy PLAGERIZING! NEED I SAY ANY MORE? But there IS more……. The movie is about a dancer who gets a part in a Broadway play entitled “Satan’s Alley” and is about a man who descends into hell to do battle with demonic spirits. His main adversary is a seductive woman, who wears crimson-red tights and heavy eye make-up. The TWI’s production is about a man also doing battle against devil spirits, his main adversary being a seducing spirit, played by a woman wearing crimson-red tights and heavy eye make-up….hmmmm! In both shows steel cages of several heights with platforms atop were used for various dancers to perform on, and the “evil woman” usually descended from the highest one to get to the man on the floor below to tempt him. Many other demons were either writing (oops! editing now = writhing) on the floor, or stood up to fight against the man. In both cases, at times you hear the groaning of demons in the background; and again in both, many of the other women’s tights are similarly designed with sequins. In both productions there was a lot of smoke near the floor, many lasers or spotlights to indicate lightening, and of course lots of thunder. The lead dancer Travolta wore a headband and so did LCM, except Craig’s was multi-colored like a spectrum (the result of the refraction of light) signifying himself as godly because God calls Himself light in the Bible. Their costumes were also similar in fashion; sometimes tights, sometimes loin cloths. In both scenarios, the final act is winning against the seductive female demon. In the movie, the man holds her in the air as a bolt of lightening strikes her from above, and TWI’s method is to have Craig give her (the “antichrist”) a fatal karate-chop while bent over his knee. Was he playing Jesus Christ or God to do that? (I thought he was just an ordinary believer who rose up to be a leader…hmmmm!) Maybe many of you out there remember these two shows, or can watch them again and respond to this post with even more valuable input! Thank you all in advance! One last note: If you cannot find the “Athletes of the Spirit” for FREE, I would not suggest paying even a nickel for it. If you want to pay to see something, go rent an old “spaghetti western” or something. (no offense to Old West fans out there! – Ha! Ha!) SPEC

Did you ever consider that a wife's bad coffee could be considered as "grounds" for divorce? Another: Man to waitress: This coffee tastes like MUD! Waitress to man: Well -- it was GROUND this morning...

Now, that's funny Waysider! I rather suppose it was used TO LIVE ON! (and not "high on the hog" -- because hogs "split the hoof" and were forbidden -- LOL!) I also doubt it was used to support the need for "Biblical Research and Teaching" either, because (for one) the stuff was just being written and recorded at the time -- and concerning "teaching", what does it really cost to run your mouth like they do? Spec PS: Now concerning fancy motorcycles, I do seem to remember reading about many "triumphs" though...(groan!)

HI ALL! I'm not completely sure this comment is what was sought for in this thread, but for those interested I offer the following concerning the "tithe": As I understand it, the tithe in the written law was required (among the tribes of ISRAEL) only by Farmers and those who raised Livestock. It was to be one-tenth from eleven of the twelve tribes, and was given to those in the tribe of Levi (the ministers) who were to take care of the temple, etc. being excluded from "secular work". Within Levi, were another group called the Priests. They served IN the temple; the others in Levi served the temple itself. Another requirement was for the "collectors" in Levi to separate out ten-percent of the total tithe (one one-hundreth, in other words) and give that directly to the priests, so they may EAT. (By the way, this portion was to be the BEST OF THE BEST, of crops and animals.) Other uses for the animals for the Priests within Levi were for sacrifice, including all the details concerning what to do with the the blood, etc, according to the law. The ministers in Levi were to take care of the building, adorning and maintaining of the temple itself. They also managed what was left of the tithe -- the remaining nine-tenths which were not given to the Priests. This provided food for them also. What was left over remained in the "Storehouse" and was to be used as the rest of the tribes of Israel had NEED. In times of famine or trouble, it was measured back to them, so that Israel as a whole did not have to suffer. As for the rest of Israel who had professions other than farming or raising livestock, it was available at certain times throughout the year (like during the various Feasts and Festivals) to contribute to Levi "freewill offerings". These could be anything such as cloth, precious metals, pottery, etc. which was used to adorn the temple, and also to provide a "base" for distribution among all Israelites when NEEDS arose. NOW -- isn't it curious that TWI "required" everyone to give the tithe, no matter what they did for a living? And just how much of that ever went back to the people when a need arose among them? If you suffered loss, it was because you did not "properly operate the principles of believing", etc. and you were left to suffer for your actions, or lack thereof because you "deserved it". (There were however, perhaps some isolated instances where TWI did step in to help in a dire situation, but it was not their "usual practice", as it was among Israel.) Another thing: Mal 3:10 says to "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there be meat (does it say MONEY?) in mine house..." Remember, the reason for it in the first place was so that the tribe of Levi COULD EAT! -- So why not merely provide TWI with FOOD itself instead of money? And if you wanted to give money or other things of value, that was up to you. And there was no requirement UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES as to any amount to be given by FREEWILL OFFERINGS (other than meat and grain)! And besides all that, we all have been taught that we are NOT under "The Law", so why the requirement at all? The word "tithe" does not even appear in any of the Epistles written to us, so why does TWI try to apply it to ALL THE FOLLOWERS?... As their prime example they use Abraham, who "gave tithes to Melchisedec". They say that since our believing should be based upon Abraham (see Romans) and not the law, then we should do as he did EVEN BEFORE the LAW was written for Israel in tablets of stone. So just what did Abraham (then Abram) do? And just who was this "Melchisedec, the King of Salem"? As the story goes, Abram's nephew Lot and his family, friends and possessions were take captive in Sodom where he lived. Abram became minded to go to battle, which he did, sucessfully rescuing them all. Upon returning from the battle, the record states that Abram gave "tithes of all" to the King of Salem (Melchisedec). (And remember now, this all took place before the "written law".) In studying the history of this region (from secular books) I found there was a requirement where Abram lived that one-tenth of any spoils taken within that land were to be given to the King - or suffer a severe penalty! (Know what happens these days if you don't file your Tax Forms to the IRS?) Basically, all he did was to merely obey the Law of the Land where he was living -- Later on, God informed him to GET OUT OF THERE... Consider also that you never EVER see another account of Abram giving another tithe! But TWI would have you believe that he did it faithfully "every paycheck", and that you should act like he did as an example. Even later on when the LAW was in effect, the tithe was not received "every week", but rather either at harvest time (for crops) or when cattle, sheep, etc gave birth. And, as mentioned before, things other than the "required tithe" -- of FOOD!) were by "freewill offerings" at Festivals and Feasts during the year. So just who do the "leaders" at TWI think they are to be authorized by God to receive tithes from ALL the people -- Levitical Priests during this Age of Grace?!! And why receive AT LEAST A TENTH (bare minimum) of EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EACH WEEK? And where is their STOREHOUSE for the grain and meat they are supposed to be receiving? There is no such thing there. And just how is this "abundant sharing" treated? Is it shared among EVERYONE so as to exist an EQUALITY among the ENTIRE MINISTRY? For the most part, unless you wear a Corps Ring, YOU DON'T EVER SEE ANY OF IT. You are taught to understand that you have to suffer consequences for your unbelief -- and "God help you" if you do not continue to faithfully tithe and abundantly share even during your own desperate times, for that is when you should do it ALL THE MORE or suffer even worse -- BULL! And if you do wear one of those rings, you only receive just enough that you may be the SLAVE they taught you to be FOR THEM in Training. The "Lions Share" goes to the Trustees and the Reverends on "the Field"! Please forgive the lack of proper documentation in this post...I trust you all can read the scriptures for yourselves. Providing that information would have made this rather lengthy response even longer. And please forgive any slight errors in "my version" of this subject of tithing. I know it is not "perfect". But I do welcome your critique and comments -- especially the "favorable ones" -- Ha! Ha! Love, "Spectrum49"

Two blondes across the river from each other: One yells out, "How do I get to the other side?" The other yells back, "But you ARE on the other side!"

A construction worker asked his buddy, "Do you know where I can find a pair of dikes?" His friend replied, "Sure! Just go downtown to Main and 5th Ave Friday night about midnight!" Nice One T-Bone! (Made it up, huh?)