shiftthis

If I had family still in, I would want them to leave of their own accord. Coercion to leave doesn't address the real problem of distorted thinking and unwillingness to think critically. If they are physically removed (willfully or forcibly) and retain the same mentality, there is limited benefit, at best.

For starters, one of the most harmful doctrines The Way has promoted is the concept of magic thinking, otherwise known as the law of believing. (In the original PFAL class, it was called "magic thinking" or something similar.) Simply stated, it involves convincing oneself that they have the ability to change things in the physical world by simply using thoughts to think them into or out of existence. The Way is certainly not the only place this doctrine is promoted but my personal experience has been with The Way so I'll limit my remarks to that effect. My personal experience includes cases of people dying because they tried to believe their way out of situations that required serious medical intervention. It also includes watching people live with painful, unnecessary guilt, thinking it was their believing that caused bad things to happen or hindered good things from happening.

I don't want to run this discussion off track. If anyone cares to further pursue a discussion of the law of believing, there are many existing threads that can be revisited using the search feature. Or, by starting a new thread on the subject.

In summary:

Would I want them out?......yes

Would I force the issue?....No

the way never taught that you should not see a doctor. we dont know who started that crap but it has ben a problem. i was in the region coordinators fellowship and there was a couple that has a 4 or 5 yo daughter that needed an operation. they wanted to believe. i sat at the kitchen table while the region coordinator told them over and over to get her operated on. they refused and stopped coming. i have had way and other believers and unbelievers get on my case for taking asprin , nyquil, and going to the doctor. i will never tell someone not to go top the doctor or take medicine. last night i was talking to a friend thats an unbeliever thats having horrible back pain. i have been telling him for about 2 weeks to go to the doctor, he refuses to. he told me the pain only comes when he starts thinking about it. he thinks its all in his head , i dont know, maybe it is. i have believed for healing and gotten healed. i have taken medicine and believed and gotten healed. whatever you need to do , do it. i dont know where this so called magic thinking came from. this is the 1st time i'v ever heard of it. in the 1970's before i got in the Word my girlfriend took me to a Sylva mind control siminar. the only thing i remember was they said you can use thoughts to heal yourself. if you got blood gushing out , or something you get to the hospital asap ! several years i had severe pain in my left arm. i decided to go to the emergency room. they did an ekg, took xrays , ran test and didnt find snything wrong. by the time they got done the physical was gone and i went home to a painful emergency room bill. about 1-1/2 years ago it happened again and i went to the emergency room again. nothing wrong this time either. the doc said it could be nerves in my neck. i told him i had ben rear ended in a car in the 70's and it suffered a really bad case of whiplash. he said that can come back and cause problems like this many years later. if you need to go to the doctor , go !

An important reflection, Twinky.

I suspect that current twi "innies" use the irrational rationale as explained by shiftthis because it's been offered as an

effective shiny object to distract followers away from having to assess wierwille's depravity.

i have never talked to anyone in the way about what i posted about people turning away from Paul. I got what i posted from the Bible. the only thing i ever talked to anyone about was LCM and the 2 women he was banging and that was a long time ago. whatever may or may not have happened was long ago. the way of today is not the same ministry as it was when LCM was the pres. LCM turned into a major a hole. the way of today is so different from when it was in 1980 when i went to fellowship. but one things for sure , the believers i was around then and am around now are good people. if anyone had ever gotten violent and i was there i would have stopped it and called the cops. if i had know of anyone using sex to get a green card signed i would have spoken up. i never heard of a green card quota either. the 1st year i was wow we ran 1 class. the 2nd year we did not run a class. we ran one class on the way disciple field. all the people that signed up did it freely. are there guys that signed the card because a woman witnessed to them ? imo yes ! why ? if you cant figure that one out theres no hope for ya ! lol !

VP had armed body gaurds. yes i know. i was in a restroom at a way event in mississippi and a few armed body guards came in and looked around and then VP came in. members of congress have armed body guards. i was at a burger joint in hollywood and several armed men came in and looked around and then a small bald guy came in and ate. lots of movie stars here in los angeles have armed body guards. i know a few big time musicians that carry a heater. nothing wrong with that. around 1980 or 81 we were witnessing at a shopping center in south jackson mississippi. one of the believers was a black. some guys in a pickup truck were riding around in the parking lot yelling racial stuff at us. they pulled out onto McDowell rd and the guy on the passenger side pointed a gun at us. a different black guy had all 4 of his tires slashed during fellowship one night. a branch coordinator was shot at and had bullet holes in his car. someone switched the wires on the ignition coil on one of the women that ran a fellowship. she called me and when the coil wasnt firing i checked the wiring. there was other stuff done to. so i can see why VP had a gun close buy.when i travel across he country i carry 2 .45's , 6 loaded mags and 50 extra rounds just in case of dia. i call it my travel kit. well , what do you expect , i'm from south mississippi. lol !

no , i'm not an innie.

.....and yet, it was commonplace in The Way's halcyon days for women (and sometimes men) to use physical attraction to lure new recruits into the fold, some even offering sexual favors in exchange for a Green Card commitment. Once the new recruit was hooked, the Way-promoting believer would move on to another prospective recruit. It was the Way's version of bait and switch, sometimes referred to as date and switch. I guess it's only considered a "distraction" if it leads people AWAY, rather than TO the organization.

wheres your proof ! i never saw any such thing. i was in the way in jackson mississippi in 1980-1981 in a fellowship run by 2 beautiful women in their mid 20's , i was wow in clinton iowa 1981-1982 with another guy and 2 beautiful women , i went back to jackson in 1982-1983 and lived with a corps family , i was wow 1983-1984 in cheyanne wyoming with 2 guys , in 1984-1985 i was in virginia beach in a young corps womans fellowship , in 1985-1986 i was in atlanta in a corp guys fellowship , in 1986-1987 i was in houston in a corp families fellopwship , in 1987 i was in west hollywood in Dennis D. fellowship and lived in several places in los angeles , in 2003-2004 i was way disciple in hoover alabama , in 2004 i went back to los angeles and have ben in about 7 different fellowships in los angeles and over all those years did and do lots of witnessing with all kinds of different people and no one ever used sex or attraction or coercion or anything else to sign people up for the class. all we ever did and do is speak the WORD to people. this thing about using sex to sign people up for the class is a lie from whoever started it. i dont care if you want to bad mouth the ministry or air your anger at some leader that did you wrong like was done to me but i will not be silent about outright lies.

People are getting smarter and the times have changed!

It is FAR to easy to look up twi online and see all the criticism.

Even if twi did a FANTASTIC presentation, eventually they either

have to say their name, or have everyone suspicious because they

refused to say their name. Looking them up online quickly shows

all the warnings, and hundreds of pages of discussion, analysis

and direct testimony of eyewitnesses RIGHT HERE.

So, we still starve their fire of fuel by informing the strangers

and the clueless.

"In vain is the net spread in sight of any bird."

There's also no zeitgeist like the hippies for twi to hijack.

vpw lied and deceived his way into their trust, and used them

to sell twi on both coasts. There's no equivalent group

available now.

There's no dynamic speaker to even SELL twi to the stranger.

Rosa-lie is dry and boring, and any dynamic speaker would be

a threat to her-even if they HAD one.

There's no "special knowledge" anymore. It's far too easy to

find local churches that teach the Bible, it's far too easy

to find "special knowledge" websites for free.

So, twi has NOTHING to offer new people. So, its current

recruitment is to recruit the kids of innies. This becomes

especially ironic after decades of discouraging innies to

HAVE children. So, there's a few spoiled kids of the

inner cadre, and a few kids of the rank-and-file.

That's not enough to replace the people who leave due to

finally getting fed up and leave due to dying. So, the

numbers keep dwindling every year, even if it's in the

single digits. And the younger ones think they can

turn it all around.

Why can't the younger ones turn it all around?

A) No special knowledge not already out there.

B) No zeitgeist to plug into.

C) Everyone's been warned about twi.

So, everything they have to offer is old, tired, and

worn-out, and usually only re-served to those who've

sat through it thousands of times by now.

And if they COULD energize people somehow?

Rosa-lie would guillotine the whole thing because

anyone with a lick of talent is a threat to her,

even Donna. Any dynamic leader could "steal" her

entire base away from here before she saw it coming.

So, she clamps down on talent.

So, twi dwindles every year, and the members get older,

and a handful of members become teenagers and adults.

That's a tiny handful, from whom SOME may join the Corps,

which explains why any active Corps program would be

in the single digits.

I could care a less about some personality. All I care about is GODS WORD in my life and the joy, excitment , and adventure GOD brings. I never cared about presentations either. The reason I go to way fellowships is the hear the WORD, and teach others the stuff I learn at home. I could care a less about how big or how small the way is. I went wow 2 times and way disciple once. it was some of the best time in my life. maybe it has to do with my ever wanting to learn and know and help others attitude. I strive to be the best electrician and drummer I can be. ever since about the the 6th grade i have had this attitude or whatever its called. that was 1969. in 1980 i was praying to GOD for people to teach me the truth about HIM. unknown to me at the time GOD directed my path to them. there were some bad people in the way and they hurt people. my dad was a violent drunk and tried to kill me twice. i have a scar on my forehead he gave me when i was about 5yo. in the 70's my younger brother broke into a gas station i managed and stole a lot of stuff and got caught. i got fired and didnt get my last paycheck because of him. i know what its like to be hurt but i never saw or knew anyone in the way to have the hell beat out of them like my dad did to me when i was growing up. i had to leave and go live with my grandmother when i was 16. i know a lot of people that are corp grads all the way back to the 11th corps that say it was one of the best times in there life. the way isnt fo everybody and neither is GODS WORD. playing drums in a touring rock n roll band isnt for everybody and thats why i dont tour.

The Way Corps still exists, it simply put on a disguise, changed its name and moved to Mississippi.

HERE

HAY ! I'm from missippi ! there are several of those independent groups around that teach the accuracy of GODS WORD. a good friend and exway believer was just ordained by one of them. i went to his ordination and told his congregation what a great man of GOD he is. the WORD of GOD is HIS WORD no matter who teaches it.

the same thing happened to Paul in the first century church. Most of the believers left his ministry and lots of them turned against Paul. History repeating itself. With the quality of leadership on the field now there may come a day when the corps isnt needed.

Mr. Pawtucket, it is now 2015 and I realize the request is 4 years old but I want to know: what is your intent with the photos. Given you are seemingly concerned with only leadership folk, I do not anticipate something on the positive side, are you looking to dis folks? Please, re-evaluate your heart, there is a better way to get your point acrosse to help folk. If this is a revenge site against sisters and brothers (past or present) I will not participate. Who knows if you are even here to respond. We have all been hurt, but must we continue to inflictt. It's time to seak healing and move on in our lives and work the word.

The best healing I got was when one of the thugs was fired and 3 others quit the way. I am moving foward. Philippians 3:13-14

Hey I'm the kid here, but I'll assume that all those accomplishments the magazine the jobs were Way International related,... and the Ordination. Thing is - if you don't stand with that ministry any longer, not much of that counts. their college wasn't accredited, the ordination would be to a group that you no longer stand with or have any affilliation with,... the internationa Bible magazine is the Way magazine? And yes the fact that you don't say where you achieved all this is interesting. Why not put it all out in the sunshine? Just asking.

If you say you're just sort of ashamed of that, I'll accept that. No problem. But if you're all proud of that. I'll likely want to know why you don't credit the sourse of your credential list there with the name of the ministry you took such pride in.

I'm assuming you don't list the Way Ministry - because you're ashamed of it or fear that people will look it up and gainsay your accomplishments. Just as they do Weirwille's degrees and honors. I'm not out to get anyone here, not you Ken, that's for sure, but it's just damned odd that you didn't say where you researched, who ordained you, what college(s) you did your teaching/learning at. If you're proud enough to list those accomplishments and too ashamed to list where you accomplished all that, I feel sorry for you. ~~~ And if that's the case, you are here with the choir,... preach away, we know the words to this song.

If I'm wrong in My assumption, pplease tell us what international magazine you write for where and how you were ordained. which colleges you graduated from and taught at. and which Foundation etc - you Researched for.

But you know - I don't think I'm wrong Though you might have had the BA in Math before you went into the Way, I'll bet the rest is TWI related and that you'd rather hide that. That would be what you're upset about here I would imagine Someone might google it and find you out? ~~~ Hey, anytime someone hides stuff like this, it's like a Red flag. Hey I'm sorry you got hurt by the Way. You're not the only one.

And you were a mindless groupie - happened a lot in The Way Ministry - Glad you finally got out. I will assume you don't still stand with them based on what you said. There is an incredible range of people here at Greasespot Cafe, belief-wise... and perhaps the only thing everyone here agrees on is that the Way wasn't ultimately beneficial to their life, so they scrammed, jetted - and in oh-so-many-directions!

You'll probably be mad that I said you were a mindless groupie, but hell you admitted in your post that you stood in the water with the pirrahanas and complained about them. to me that's mindless.

how can a drummer be a mindless groupie ? i go to twi fellowships and i'm also a drummer ! lol ! but i'm not the president of the hair club for men cause ................. i'm bald ! lol ! :)

you know , i should look at the date , this is a very old post ! silly me !

Would you want an intervention?

Just wondering how serious folks think TWI is causing harm to their family, and if they could, would they want a professional team intervene to try and get them out?

Looking forward to serious replies.

Thanks,

Seth

thats illegal and against the federal law and kidnapping. about 30 years ago congress passed a law againt that. i dont know where you got the info that TWI harms people from but its a lie right from lucifer himself. why not attend a way fellowship and see for yourself. thers a lot of ....ed off people that use to attend fellowships that did nothing but cause problems and were told not to come. your avatar is of a military man. what does the military do when a soldier causes trouble ? kicks him out ! what does your boss do if you cause trouble ? your fired ! we dont put with that stuff. if you wanna be a jerk your not welcome. we dont allow the adversary in.

i started going to TWI fellowship in 1980. i went out WOW twice. in 1987 most of los angeles split from the way. Dennis D. was my fellowship coordinator and split from the way. i decided to keep going to his independent fellowship. soon after most of the other independent fellowships in the area that were run by the leadership that split from the way became corrupt, not but most. Dennis continued in THE WORD of GOD. i spent 7 years in Dennises independent fellowship and then he moved 60 miles away. around november 1994 i called the way and started going back top fellowship. there was some leadership and fellowship coordinators that never should have been in the way. eventually they were fired or reproved and got on THE WORD. read this > 2 Peter 2:1-3 < NO fellowship or ministry that teaches THE WORD is immune from false teachers, etc. you gotta speak up and most believers including me did not at the time. from 1994-1998 i went to way fellowships again. around 1998 a BC doing what LCM instructed leadership to do kicked a lot of people out. about 3-1/2 years go by and i didnt attend any independent fellowships but i kept my head in the Bible and continued to renew my mind to THE WORD. one night GOD directed my path and i met a believer that was going to way fellowships. around mid 2002 i started going to way fellowships again. a few months later i was going to move and the region coordinator ask if i would like to move into their spare bedroom. i moved in and it was a great experience. a real man of GOD that manifested the love of GOD. there was no yelling or any of that other crap. i was very blessed. i lived there 14 months and went way disciple. i came back to la and have been attending fellowships ever since. this is NOT your grandpas way ministry. i know that there were people that were wronged by false teachers, etc but GOD says there "shall be" those false believers. the love that i seen the past 14 years is awsome. no one in the area i'm in is being harmed by TWI and if someone is they should call the next higher up leadership. i have met a few people that told me some insane lies and thats what the adversary does,oh the TWI is a cult that hurts people. the people that did hurt have been long gone. i have seen natural man married friends have huge fights with their spouses and they forget and move on. but it seems the first time another believer says something not right the other believer wants to leave the ministry. thats what reproof is for and the god of this world wants you to split out. btw i still talk to Dennis D and he is with another ministry that also teaches that acccuracy of GOD WORD. Dennis was ordained last year and i went to his ordination to bear witness at what a great man of GOD he is because i know first hand. immagine that , a way believer going to the ordination of a man thats in a different ministry, well thats the way it is. TWI is NOT your old grandpas ministry. GOD BLESS !

CLICK

LMAO !

twinkie twinkie little bar how i eat you like a star ! < well ...... i tried !

:biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/>

Ron,

As a former military man, I found it necessary to play taps and salute with a tear in my eye at such a disgusting destruction of perfectly good booze.

Shiftthis,

:o/> :huh:/>

Thank you for the update, I've always wondered what Mongo would have to do after the ox wore out. :blink:/>

Mongo gittum "iron ox" ! do good !

yeah , well, me and my moonshine hauler got away ! and yes this was my 66 ford wagon with a 460 and 4 on the floor and it would haul shhhhhhhhiiiiiiinnnnnneeeeeee ! cb radio equipped ! 250 watt landing light high beams. tail light/brake light cut off switch. custom suspension. 4 wheel disc brakes. detroit locker posi. its tuned up fine !!! i am from south missippi !

all i can tell you is what my dad did. my dad started drinking heavy around 1968. by around 1970(iirc) he would come in from work and start downing 2-6packs of tall bud. after the tall bud he would drink a 5th of vodka. he did this every day until 1992 when my mom told him she was going to divorce him if he didnt stop drinking. he quit right then and hasnt drank again. yes he just up and quit. this is all the help i can offer. i have heard of other people just up and quiting.

this aint the only case like this. when i was about 17 i was hitching on i-55 south in mississippi and a huge guy in a nova picked me up. as we drove down i-55 south he started talking graphic sexual stuff to me. he then told me he was turning off a few exits down to go to a party in the country and invited me to go. i said no thank you. he continued to insist and i continued to resist. i looked over at him and he was drooling big time. i started insisting that he stop and let me out right here in the middle of nowhere on i-55 south several miles south of brookhaven mississippi where he picked me up. i made a comment about jerking the steering wheel causing us to fly off the road and he pulled right over and i got out. this guy wasnt inviting me to a party he was gonna kidnap me after he got me to where he was going. i garuntee you there are many many others that are locked up in neighborhoods and out in the sticks. a friends parents live in a house built at the end of a curved driveway about a mile long out in the sticks in south missisippi and trees cover the house and trees are everywhere cause its the woods. no one is within about a mile of them and i think how easy a kidnapped victim could be at a place like that for the rest of there life. if you hear somthing or see someone waving call the cops. someone said they saw one of these women in a window holding a baby waving. the cops came but didnt go in. if it had ben me i would have called the tv stations and harrassed the cops until they got a warrant and searched the house. as for the kidnapper helping with vigils and stuff a guy that murdered a girl out here went with people looking for her before they found out he was the murderer.

cute little animals. i bet they are very playful. i always wanted a ferret.

Good luck to you just the same, though. I'll be believing for you.

Thanks

Hello , my name is Mr. Ed. just kidding i'm not a horse of course of course i'm ........Jeff ?

I'm putting together an outreach rock band to play in the parks on warm saturdays around the greater los angeles area. looking for 2 geetar players and keyboard player. i'm the drummer and have bass player. the music will be Word based rock n roll similat to TAKIT but more like early Johnny Winter, CCR , Steppenwolf , Poin Blank , KISS , Deep Purple , RIOT , etc. the concerts will be free and we will be doing this to move GODS Word. i am putting a PA system together to cover about 3000 people outside. i have ben looking at used 45-48 foot flatbed simi trailers for the stage. there is a believer that has a securtiy company and 2 that have operated portable generators like the 75kw that will be used to power the pa. we will cover 4-6 mainstream rock songs and the rest we will write for about a 2 hour show. i'm a professional drummer and have ben playing since 1970 and moved to los angeles in 1987. i'm looking for players (male or female) that have ben in bands and have at least 100 amps and at least 2 geetars and ben playing for ate least 1 year. you will also need a monitor speaker, amp, & eq. i have 3 identical tama superstar double bass drum kits. right now i have 22 qsc power amps for the pa. send me a PM here at greasespot if interested. we will probably catch a crap from people in the audience like the apostsles did in acts ch2 so dont bother contacting me unless your the good seed that sprang up and brings forth fruit. if you dont care what anyone but GOD thinks of you then you got what it takes. remember this is to reach thousands of people via THE WORD in music. this is "not" a Way International Sponsored band but we will be inviting people to attend way fellowships. even if you dont attend a Way fellowship and are interested contact me. GOD bless ya , Jeff

i miss suzie q ! i miss them packs of little white donuts ! i miss my cherry pie ! i miss my chocolate zingers ! i miss my ho ho's and ding dongs ! i'm all tripped out like a circut breaker ! well ding dong the bell just rung i gotta go !

Mongo not gone ! Mongo just big pawn in the sky ! of all the movies i have ever seen this is my favorite line of all time > Mongo say > Got to do with where choo choo go ! RIP Alex !

Charging for classes..

the main objection I have to STFI, or any other offshoot charging for classes, is they are charging or accepting a "donation" for twice-stolen material.

For the most part, anyway. It would be not unlike selling an aged, yet stolen motor vehicle. One carefully refurbishes it, paints it a different color.. changes a little of the vocabulary, slightly restructures the order the material is presented.. paints over the title and names it Living in god's power, or something sorta like that.

It's still a stolen vehicle.

"Acquired" from a previous "owner" who "acquired" it the same way..

wanna buy a good used seminar?

Title? Who needs a title..

The sad part of this is that "pfal" is essentially their bread and butter.

great reply and right on. around 1992? i knew a guy that said he had stolen the pfal class tpaes. the offshoots out here were charging people for the class. i'v met a few people over the years that were witnessed to by folks in the independent fellowships and took VP's pfal class. they wernt very happey to learn that those tapes were stolen,copied and passed around. stealing is stealing. if the independents want to run classes they should make thier own. did you guys hear about the guy that was reunited with his stolen MG after about 40 years ? those tapes are still the property of twi. THE WORD says one of the devils traits is to steal.

I have been having trouble going to mass lately... ok, for almost a year now. I feel alone when I am at mass. But when I go into the church all alone, I feel warm and embraced. I wish I could puzzle this one out so that I can go to mass happily. I miss mass.

It is hard not to attribute every dark corner of my life to TWI. It is hard to realize that other things have happened in my life - happy and sad. It could be that I am going through yet another season of forgiveness... and as much as they are uncomfortable, if I just get on with the forgiving, I can get on with everything else faster, too.

you will always feel alone because GOD isnt in that place. the "only" thing you will find there is darkness. i'm not talking about the people necessarily cause there might be a lot of people there that love GOD but dont know that they will never learn about HIM there.

i dont see how anyone could become a roman catholic. talk about throwing up ! my grandma was an rc and sent my mother to rc shcools and raised her rc and we were raised rc sent to rc schools and that was a great thing. we went to several different rc churches and then one day i realised that the rc churches were dark. yes dark as in spiritual darkness. i was about 15 at the time and quit going to church and that caused lots of problems with my parents. i was punished and finally they said i didnt have to go. about 9 years later i prayed to GOD to show me someone or some group that would teach me the truth about HIM. a few weeks later i was thinking i should go to a certain store and right after i went inside a guy came up to me and started talking about GOD and then invited me to a fellowship. that was around febuary of 1980. you will not find the truth in the roman catholic church. ypung boys run the risk of getting poked by a homo priest. if it sickens you to read the accuracy of the WORD then your definitly being attacked or possessed by the devil. i dont care if you dont believe me just look at THE WORD. yeah a lotta bad dang happened at twi by false teachers that came in. THE WORD of GOD says in Peter that there SHALL BE false teachers that SHALL come in. they have to be kicked out. there are some that lurk here to cause trouble. dont ask me to name names cause i wont. just beware that the roman catholic doctrine is false doctrine. i should also mention that i went to the rc sunday school that was taught by the head priest. you know those of you that grew up in a way household should get on your knees and be thankful you had decent parents. i grew up in a house full of tortue. my dad busted my head open in a fit of rage when i was about 5 yo. when i asked my mom why she didnt grab me and leave him right then she didnt have an answer. in the 5th grade my dad became a violent drunk and would beat the dang out of me on a regular basis because he didnt like that fact the raising children cost money. before the start of the 11th grade my dad was on a drunken binge and my mom was out of town at her mothers. i came in the house and my dad pocked up his vodka and came at me cussing with the bottle held back in a hitting position. i ran down the street. i treid to get the cops to come but they blew me off as they had done before. i went back inside and this was the 1st of 2 times i got my shotgun and was going to kill my dad. i drove 100 miles instead and lived with my mothers mother. about 6 months later and promises by my dad that he would hurt me anymore i came back home so i could go back to school. i was 17 years old at the time. shortly after i came back my dad tore my bedroom door off the hinges and came at me. i managed to get passed him and ran down the street and waited in the dark night for a couple of hour untill i thought he had passed out. i went in my room and my dad had destroyed my drum set. i got my shotgun and headed back to the bedroom to kill him. the thought of me going to prison kept hitting my mind so i put the gun away grabbed some clothes and went to my grandmothers to live again. a few weeks later my da came down and saw me in a parking lot with some friends. it was 1975 in a mccomb mississippi and we would leave the keys in the ignition if we were hanging out in a parking lot. my dad got out of his car and got in mine cranked it up and was putting it in 1st and reverse and popping the clutch to try to break it. then he pushed the pedal to the floor to try to blow the engine. i ran to the hood and opened it and pulled the coil wire off. my dad got out and was going to start a fight with a friend of mine but the cops drove up. my dad tried to blame it us but the cops smelled alcohol on my dads breath and told him to leave. they told us to leave to. there was a guy there that i didnt know that went to his car and got a pistol and was headed back to kill my dad because he didnt know why the crazy man was. the cops showed up before he could kill him. so all of you that didnt like growing up in a way household but had good parents should get on your knees and thank GOD you didnt have a violent dad and weak stand by your husband mother like i did. i never finished high school. i got my ged later. as soon as i was able i moved 2000 miles from mississippi and will never live there again becase of all the horrible memories of the tortue i went through. i will be glad and rejoice the day my devil possessed dad dies ! yeah you people that bad mouth your decent parents becaue you were raised in a good setting can trade with me if someone invents a time machine(fos)! i'v heard a few unthankfull young adults bad mouth their way parents. if you had(have) loving parnets and live in a nice home setting you outta be so dam thankful ! soem of us had it real bad and even though what i went through wasnt sexual there are people that have ben raped by their dads !!! just think about this the next time you want to COMPLAIN about growing up in a way hosehold weather your parents were way core or just plain believers. i'm 54 years of age and the tortue i went through was so great it seems like it just happened. i thank GOD for the wow vet that witnessed to me. GODS WORD healed me and kept me from going comitting suicide. yeah i might have gone back and blown my dads head off and then blown mine off. if your parents are good then be thanful and love them back !

"Just when I thought I was out...."

Hi there shift. Dunno - I do apologize for the initial tone of my response if it seemed rasty, I did think this was a joke. Slap my asz and call me Judy, now we're serious and I want to clarify what I wrote.

I was "in the Way" as they say from '68 PFAL, till about 1989, give or take. I met David earlier on in the SF Bay Area, and before going back there to Ohio. I'd met Skip M before that and we all knew some of the same people. Later I was in Way Productions at the Way Nash, Joyful Noise and played guitar and worked with that initial effort from it's inception through 1980. I left in 1980 but kept contact with the work over the years up till I left - the rest is water under the bridge. The development of "Takit" was influenced by many different people, the times and the inevitable change that occurs in an organization and it's efforts. When members were being discussed for that work DG was at the top of the list of course - his availability, etc. As it worked out he took it on and his leadership both musically and personally had a significant impact on it's initial successes. (as you'd expect).

I don't know what DG meant or what happened in your conversation. DG did was in fact the initial drummer for that band. The drum chair changed after a year or so - I'm fuzzy on the who/what/when's of his leaving, it's just been a long time since all this, but he did. Michael came in at a point, sounds like others did too but I wasn't in contact with them for most of the time they were down in L.A. and only got caught up on it all years later. Anyone who was around in the early 80's there when they were on the road with the production that year saw him with them, and he was always introduced by name, of course. But Dave was part of it. I don't know what he meant by what he told you, I'm sure it was correct in the context of the conversation you were having.

In some ways this isn't a big deal, definitely not to me. And while I respect their effort in that band and they did make good music that wasn't the sole goal of the effort - but it was a primary goal in why it was formed. DG was an asset and contributor to those goals - of course, he's a great musician. Like all of the Way's efforts though it wasn't completely reliant and built around single personalities. Members shifted. This isn't unusual at all in music efforts, bands, etc. TOP's roster over the years is a perfect example of that kind of dynamic. I'm sure Dave's List of Best Of's might already be loaded up - I'm sure it was meaningful to him in certain ways but he's had a busy career of great work.

I realized years ago that as time passes, information and history is going to get blurry on all of this Wayfer stuff. A lot of it is now, and there are many different perspectives on events. Hope this helps in some way. Either way, play long and prosper!

thanks for the info. i went to a fellowship DG was running for about a year. i dont know why DG told me and the other people in his twig he never played for takit. maybe he meant he didnt play on the album. i was shocked at Daves reply. i was going to DG's fellowship when he packed up and left to SF around 1988. i wish takit had put their names on the album cover. thanks for the info. btw the drugs reference is from the movie "my cousin Vinny" !

You are moving the goal posts. You started by saying that you could call and find out. IRS code governing 501c3 corporations has many specifics regarding financial disclosure. If you were to actually call them they should direct you to someone who could get you copies of the information you request. That's their responsibility by law. But they don't do that. They make available no financial disclosures that I am aware and I was at HQ for nearly a decade and was on the presidents cabinet for a short stint.

If they don't have integrity in the smallest matters then what does that say about them?

Are you frightened to call them? Perhaps a likely scenario if you do is repercussions through the way of the USA down to your local leadership. Perhaps you are scared (rightfully so) of a reproof session. If you are, then what does that say about the organization you support?

It took me a number of years to finally wake up to the fact that the way international is an abusive cult. I too went from thinking all the reports of Wierwille and company's wrongdoings were lies, attacks of the adversary, etc. I've spent a number of years with a Acts 17:11 mindset. I've searched diligently whether these things are so. I have also spent quite a bit of time taking many of their doctrinal teachings to the bible and found that they are not so.

I won't argue with you any further. You have a number of resources to begin your investigation. One thing is for certain. Asking someone that has absolutely no knowledge or what we are talking about versus a host of people that know and can prove what they say is an odd way to verify the claims we are making.

Wierwille's evil and his cult legacy has been exposed and shouted from the rooftops.

no i'm not moving the goal post. no i'm not a frighted to call twi. I JUST DONT GIVE A SH&&T how much money twi has in the bank. i dont f n care to put it bluntly. saying "i could" didnt mean i was gonna. again i dont care if twi has > see picture !