shiftthis

Were you ever involved in any "grad" activities? After I left TWI I was thoroughly disgusted with all the name-tags and the artificial divisions they promoted in the body of Christ. Grads WERE considered better than the non-grads, even of the foundational class. That was a fundamental assumption for anybody running a class, and I know whereof I write, because I ran my share. I thought we had gotten away from that way of thinking in CES, but one of first horrifying things I saw after Momentus was a return by the leaders of CES to a "grads are better than non-grads" mentality.

The WHOLE motivator behind promoting a class... any class... is that grads will be better than non-grads. That's okay for a course in drumming or auto mechanics, but Christianity is spiritual, and classes are fleshly. The knowledge in PFAL/Intro to God's Heart/Exercising Spiritual Authority/Momentus/etc. DOES NOT edify. It PUFFS UP.

While you were involved with PFAL and TWI, you may well have developed a "better" walk with God, but I submit it was because you were humble to God, and not because of the class. Wierwille stole credit for himself and his class that properly belonged to the Lord Jesus Christ and to God the Father.

Love,

Steve

going all the way back to febuary 1980 when i first started going to fellowship i never saw any of what you say. hell i had Tom & Barb Lally from 1980-1981 for twig coordinators and again in 1984 as branch coordinators and as big of an &^% hole as Barb was i still never saw what you say about grads vs non grads. btw i wear my advanced class name tag to large meetings at banquet rooms so if someone wants an advanced class grad to pray with them they can find us easy. i'm out to help people, and all i am is a lowly dude that believes GODS word. i dont elevate myself above anyone and that includes unbelievers. when i was new to fellowship and wanted someone to pray with me or for me I "always" looked for the highest leader i could find because i figured they would be the best to pray with. i always looked for Limb coordinator name tags at the rock so i could hang out with them and learn stuff. name tags are great.

when You , Me , and Anyone else speaks the rightly divdided WORD of GOD division happens ! Not because I or others want division to happen but because some people dont want to hear IT. The adversary gets ....ed off and starts working in poeple. It is written(i think it in Peter , maybe Timothy) that we who stand for GOD are gonna suffer persecution.

does anyone know who the drummer was for TAKIT ? iirc his fisrt name was Willie.

old post but if anyone is interested theres a TAKIT album on ebay right now. there were 2 but i bought one. someone posted a TAKIT song on youtube. just type in takit.

i had to pay money to take drum classes. it cost money to go to collage. even public school cost and property owners pay the cost. if someone wants to charge for a biblical class they have a right to. The Word of God says a laborer is worthy of his hire. if TWI or John Lynn or somebody else charges for a class why is it a problem. materials cost money, a venue cost money, electricity cost money, peoples time cost money. if you dont like it you dont have to go.

I've been giving this some more thought.

After I took Power for Abundant Living, I thought that I was a better Christian. Whether or not I really was is something for the Lord Jesus Christ to judge, but that's what I thought. I promoted PFAL because I thought it could help people be better Christians.

I now realize how devilish that mindset is.

If the class can make me a better Christian, that must mean that I am a better Christian than anybody who hasn't taken the class.

well it depends on what you mean by "better". a friend of mine is an aircarft mechaninc and works on the air tankers that fly over and drop liquid on forest fires. he took classes so he could be a better mechainc. my landlord is a mechanic for the city and recently had to take classes so he could be a better mechanic. i took drum lessons so i could play drums better. i study the bible so i can live the word of God better. it not that my friends above or myself are taking classes to be better than other people but rather to be better at what we do. i took PFAL in 1980 and as i applied the Word taught in the class i became better at livng Gods Word. i am a better drummer because of the lessons(class) i took. i'm not trying to compare myself to others as a drummer or a christian but rather improve my own life. it is possible for someone to take classes and boast that they are better then others but thats not what TWI promoted. i went to way fellowships and i went to the offshoot indendent fellowships for about 7 years and i never heard anyone in either group say that taking a class will make you a better christian. i took a couple of the independant fellowship classes to. the only thing that will make you a better christian( better able to do the Word because of instruction) is if you apply what your taught in the class. the same applys in classes that pertain to work. if i take a class on drumming and not apply it i will not be a better drummer. i hope this helps. btw my landlord is a better mechanic than other mechanics that have not had the latest automotive repair class.

The one who REALLY needed his azz kicked was VP. I suspect he knew that someone was likely to try. That's why he surrounded himself with armed thugs and was known to dispatch goons to quiet any opposition,

THE WORD says that there "shall be" false ministers that shall come in amoung you(us). they tried to do in Jesus but he would escape them. John 10:10 the thief cometh not but for to steal,and to kill,and to destroy. if your in a high profile position and need body gaurds go for it.

What about shiftthis?

Deliverance from pride?.....

Deliverance from "casting stones?".....

In coming to the Savior from sin.......go and sin no more.

<_<

it all depends on the situation when it comes from tell them twice and what are you telling them twice. i run a construction crew and sometimes i have fired a guy for refusing to wear a hardhat that he was told to wear by the job superintendant. if i didnt fire the guy on the spot the super would call my boss who would fire the guy and warn me to run the job or i will be fired. i told a guy probably 5 or more times to do the job a certain way until he finally did it that way but it was because i could tell the guy was a real slow learner and not seeing what he could get away with. i have had k nown gangbangers,hells angels,other bikers,and riff raff on my crews. if they do the job right,dont cause trouble, dont steal, they have a job and if not they are fired. if i dont do my job i will be fired and if i allow the job to get screwed up the company is fired. we have ben hired to finish a job that another co contractor messed up. people pay money to for a building for their store and it has a deadline and WE work for those people. its no different if someone wants to cause trouble in fellowship. i wouldnt want to be st fellowship or work or a friends house if someone was causing trouble. i could cause some really bad trouble if i wanted to BUT i choose not do that stuff just like i choose not to rob banks or embezzle money or other bad stuff. would you like it if i came to your house and started causing problems ? depending on the situation would determine weather or not i told someone to leave or just gave a warning. the difference with me is that i know better because i know the word. there aint no excuse for me causing problems for anyone and no i am NOT perfect BUT i know better. if you instruct a pilot not to land in thick fog but the pilot decides to land anyway people die as in what happened to the polish president and the rest of those people. its late and i hope i have answered this for you. GOOD NIGHT !!!

beatings? . . . just listen to PFAL . . . think for a minute . . . that will drive you crazy

its possible but i grew up with a biological male parent<(father) who was a mean violent az hole and became really mean and violent when he turned into a drunk when i was about 10. he resenetd having us 3 boys and used to give my mom hell for it. i went through a lotta verbal tortue and physical abuse while my younger brothers were left alone. i was really messed up mentally and it took a long time of putting THE WORD on and believing GOD to heal me mentally. i had some fellowship coordinators ask me why i come cause they didnt see me growing and that i was kinda strange. a few tried to help BUT ithis was something that only i with GODS help could do. i was invited to move in with a very kind state coordinator and his family about 9 years ago and the man really took the time to help with what he could do and allowed me to time to finish healing mentally. one thing i never did was be unkind and mistreat others like my dad treated me. i NEVER want to be like my dad was. this leader told me that the reason it took me so long to come out of all that was that no one had ever taken the time to help me with what they could help with. i am answering 2 things here one is the time it takes people to overcome and the other is that just casue someone was treated badly at home growing up isnt and excuse or reason to treat others that way. when i was a teenager some of my friends wanted to have my dad arrested for the way they say him treat me and some quit coming over cause they couldnt stand to see me treated badly. a couple said they wanted to beat the hell out of my dad. there wernt any abuse laws on the books back then like we have today. my mom was gonna have my dad arrested one night after he started hitting me for out of a drunken rage but i told her not to cause of what my dad might do after posting bail. my dad appologized to me a while back fo what he did but all he will ever be to me is the biological parent. when my mom died about 10 years ago my dad got remarried to a retired coworker and i thi nk she had some serous talk with him about what she found out about our relationship. i think martindale got a powertrip and thought he could do what he wanted and did. my leadership appologized to me for the way i treated under the m regiem. i have known a few people that grew up in loving families that turned out to be trash. my younger brother never suffered at the hands of my dad but grew up to be a no account druggie and crook. he came to fellowship for a while but said he would rather party and do his own thing. he died in 03 of lung,stomach,panchreas cancer and he mainly smoke lots of dope over the years. he robbed a gas station i managed once and stole stuff from me. he was treated well by my dad. i am a sinner but i choose to live according to what THE WORD says. when i am taught something i do like they did in the book of acts and search the bible to see if what is taught is so. if you dont then your taking somebodys word for it and i dont do that. i hope this answers the questions about time to grow and change and that being abused doesnt mean you will be an abuser. i stated earlier that not everybody wants THE WORD but its not up to me to detrermine that i have seen people come for awhile never to be seen again and if i didnt want to know GOD i wouldnt read the bible or go to fellowship. a go to fellowship to hear THE WORD , manifestations,and we got some really cool people in our fellowship and i am the oddball of the bunch. yeah i am a little strange but i like who i am. GOD BLESS YA

Hang in there shift. After you answer my question (if you do) I am going to leave you alone.

Shift must have had to get to fellowship.

just lots of stuff to do. i stay really buisy. i dont mind you asking me questions,if i did i wouldnt reply or be on this forum.

If they are still teaching that Way followers are a special, superior breed of human that can conjure up special powers to exact physical change through magical thinking, I would be inclined to say they haven't changed.

i never heard anyone teach that way followwers are a superior breed of humans. but IF you believe that the WORD of GOD is true and that 1co. ch12 is true and that WE who are born again of GODS spirit can operate the manifestations then you can do what THE WORD says you can do. but if you dont believe that we have the exceeding greatness of GODS power when we believe then why even talk about GOD. do you believe that GOD raised Jesus from the dead ?

Jesus hung out with tax collectors, prostitutes, Samaritans, women, and just about every other socially undesirable that one could imagine. I don't see one record where he told them to shape up according to the word or he would shut them out. Perhaps he realized that for some it wasn't a radical conversion, but a lifelong process of progress and failures.

yes but in a case where homosexuals come in to make a show and dont want to change that aint right. most people who dont want THE WORD will qiut coming but others will come in to disrupt and spy out our freedom as is written THE WORD. not everybody grows at the same pace and it takes some people years to overcome something and you cannot put a time limit on them as long as they want deliverence.

Oh, I think quite a few ladies here can "understand" that. You don't have to look too far to find first-hand testimony of TWI related rape victims here.

i have read post here about sexual abuse but non of that ever went on in the twigs i went to or ran. why didnt these women call the cops if they were raped(sexually abused)? i am also not saying if i did or didnt cause i dont know.

These are good questions. Shift??...??

why not call international for that answer. so for i havent encountered any of the aboved in a fellowship since returning in 2002 or was it 2001 ? i do remember that around the early 80's a limb coordinator got wind of a female believer hanging out with a convicted RAPIST the was on parol and didnt want her or any other female around that guy unless another male believer was with them. can you ladies understnd that. i wouldnt want my kids alone with a petterazz.

Sooooooo----from this post, it is obvious you have seen things being done in The Way with which you disagreed. But, you didn't rock the boat because you knew there would be undesirable, personal consequences. And, you feel somewhat powerless because you lack the rank to wield any clout that would result in change.

Please tell me again how this describes a "kinder, gentler" organization. i never said kinder and gentler but if you want to find out for yourself why dont you go to a way fellowship and check it out and report back ?

You guys better go easy on shiftthis before his way corpse leadership finds out he's messing around on GreaseSpot Cafe. Wouldn't want to get him into trouble ya know.

not to worry !

Yes.

Quite a lot of people. Specific focus on one or two at the moment; it takes TIME to really help someone change so drastically.

Who have I cared about? YOU HAVE NO IDEA but actually, genuine care and help - lemme see - several dozen. A hundred, maybe? More? In a very wide variety of ways.

Answer these questions please.

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But Shiftthis does.....

Here there has to be a question. You believe the allegations about Rosalie Rivenbark are false and that those making them are liars.

Would it make any difference if you had proof that this was the truth? What would you do? When Martindale was in charge, people were face d with that same choice,... MOST, did nothing. many of those people are still in The Way International today, and some people still don't believe Martindale did anything wrong.

It's easier to say, "It's a lie" than to look into it. There's always that uncomfortable fact that when you discovered it to be true, you'd be forced to do something if you had any spine at all.

Not looking into it is far easier. The tweo women who have stayed with Rosalie Rivenbark also have lives outside of Way Property. It's interesting to note that people who are so very close to RR, living under her own roof, have such private personal lives. Would it stun you to learn that they live together.

Yes shiftthis, you're a good ostrich. You've never looked into any of it seriously (It's not actually that hard to do yanno?)

It's easier to believe others are lying, That requires no time or effort on your part, no expense, and less personal aggrivation.

It would be terribly uncomfortable for you to discover the truth that people that refuse to do as THE WORD instructs are welcome in her home. Heck - you're paying for it. Better to deny. It's easier.

That's how Martindale got to be such an idiot. He counted on people like you to stick their heads in the sand, until the Allens called his bluff and exposed him. But LC Martindale wasn't the only one getting his jollies. His wife and RR were into all that too. the Allens didn't sue them,... because they weren't in charge of the Ministry. But they did mention D.M. and R.R.'s indiscretions to the judge. The judge mentions this offhandedly in what is public and when R.R. and D.M. were informed, they quickly subordinated their case and paid the Allen's off to NOT carry their lawsuit into a court of law.

Easier to be an ostrich......

i never stuck my head in the sand concerning martindale or other leaders i was under BUT when your not the boss there aint nothing you can do and if you speak up your fired. i have spoken up on construction jobs and gotten fired. i have refused to do shoddy and illegal construction work and ben fired & thats happened a few times. there were a couple of times i started to speak up in the ministry and was close to possibly getting kicked out. i dont stick my head in the sand an this is not my grandpas ministry.

I don't think it's whether or not we (as Christians) believe homosexuality is wrong. I think it's whether or not we believe (as Christians) that Jesus came for everyone. Outcasts. Outsiders. And yes, even the homosexual. Who are we to decide who is to be reconciled to God? Who are we to suggest your or my particular sin is any less despised by God?

I'm just sayin' that I think we (as Christians) should be very careful when we attempt to speak on behalf of God about who or who yes it has not welcome.

yes it has to be done on an individual basis , not one size fits all. people need to be given time to believe THE WORD and grow.

No Shiftthis, you haven't. What I asked was this:

You have set yourself up as a mouthpiece for The Way. But you comment on what your own approach would be. Should it be taken, then, that your approach is exactly what The Way's attitude would be?

You say:

You would therefore refuse to have anything to do with them; refuse to fellowship with them; refuse to help them. Refuse to show them the love of God.

The Way's attitude to homosexuals (under LCM's reign of terror) was that they were the lowest of the low, dregs of society, basically words weren't enough to describe their despicable behavior.

Who does God love? Does he not pour out his goodness on all? Is not God's love unconditional?

Who did Jesus hang around with? Drunkards, prostitutes, the lowest of the low, dregs of society, those nobody else wanted to be around. Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of those were homosexual, even though there was an enormous taboo against that in Jewish society. (The very fact that it is mentioned at all means that it was present in that society!) No, Jesus showed love, grace, compassion. He wasn't judgmental, condemnatory; he showed he cared. Some people listened, changed their ways; others didn't.

Change doesn't happen from simply reading words in a book - maybe only reading those words once or twice, even if it does say Bible on the cover; it takes time to sink in and for the desire to change one's behavior (whatever that behavior is) to something more Godly. It takes a proper model. Once full of grace and kindness.

Another question for you:

What about what The Way might consider lesser sins?

Does the Way now kick out adulterers? Child molesters? What about those men who do not love their wives as themselves, but abuse them, hit them, emotionally injure them? What about "invisible" sins? Those who are prideful? Those who lie? Those who think ill of their brothers in Christ? Those who backbite and speak evil of fellow Christians? And those who condone these things, even if they (say they) haven't done them themselves?

Because, Shiftthis, all those things are ALSO in the Word, and there are most definitely people still fellowshipping with The Way who do (some of) those things. There may even be some who have done all of these things.

Where does the kicking out start? And finish?

How on earth would you "help them," without first showing that you cared enough to help them?

Otherwise, it's just finger-wagging from a position of superiority.

How on earth does The Way "help" anyone, when it doesn't show it cares?

you used a term "looking very gay". exactly what do you mean buy that ? a guy wearing a dress ? back in the south in the 70's i was called a queer in school cause i had hair down over my ears. is that what you mean. i clearly stated that if someone wanted help they would get help. if someone sees that being a homosexual goes against GODS WORD but want to reamin a homosexual then it aint no different from a theif or crimnial who doesnt want to stop stealing and go out and get a job. they are not welcome. i wouldnt want drunks and drug addicts who didnt want to qiut the drugs and booze around. my dad was a violent drunk and that was pure hell growing up in that enviorement and i invited him to fellowship in 1980 and he refused to go , he loved his getting drunk escapades and my youger brother took the pfal class around 1983 but decided to be a theif and drug dealer and i refused to let him in my home cause i caught him trying to steal form me. if you dont want to do the WORD that you learn then whats the reason for coming ? its one thing to grow as you learn more and more of THE WORD but if you dont want to do it your wasting everybodys time when there are people who want help that my time and others could be spent on. you seem to want to take what i typed and twist it around and say the way doesnt want to help anyone. have you ever ben W.O.W. or Way Disciple ? i went wow 2 times > 1981-1982 and 1983-1984 and way discilple in 2003-2004 because i wanted to devote a lot of my time to help people get the deliverence i have gotten. who have you helpled get deliverence lately ? "THE WAY" is made of of people, and we care ! again i ask who have YOU cared about and helped this week ?

sounds like it's ok for gays and lesbians to attend fellowships with TWI as long as they stay in the closet. or was lcm right to "purge" the "ministry" as he did? after all, he ran off thousands of "homos" hiding amongst the faithful and contaminating the "one true household".

p.s. I don't consider a "homo lifestyle" to be something people need to be "delivered" from.

well that means you refuse to believe what GOD says in his WORD about homosexaulity. i thought greasespot cafe was a place for believers who were wrongly kicked out of the ministry. i see that unbelievers reside here to. if your not into GOD and HIS word why are you here ? is it to stir up trouble amongst people ? GOD says homosexuality is wrong. and no its not o.k. for homosexuals (male or female) who know THE WORD to stay in the closet and attend fellowship. i never typed that and dont go saying i did. you should read what i typed again. end of story !

Shiftthis posted a number of quotes recently. These are some extracts (edited a little to correct some spelling bloopers):

Shiftthis is at pains to emphasise how much TWI has changed since Martindale was kicked out. Others describe it as being "softer and kinder."

No doubt there has been change - some perhaps for the better.

I just have one question, specifically for Shiftthis: what is the Way's attitude towards homosexuals? If a homosexual man (or woman) turned up looking very "gay", would that person be welcomed, honestly and openly, at a Sunday Night Service? Or (even if permitted to stay) would they remain feeling welcome, or would they feel lectured at, and condemned for their sexuality?

It is widely understood at the Cafe that Rosalie and Donna have had/are in a relationship and there have been allegations that Rosalie had a lesbian couple living (secretly) in her household. Those things have always been kept away from the wider public knowledge, even from most people living at HQ. And certainly at the time, that behavior was going on even though it didn't fit with Martindale's rages against it.

But now?

If, let's say, two homosexual ex-Wayfers (perhaps some of those you say were "wrongly thown outa the ministry by others who aint here no more" turned up hand-in-hand for SNS, what would be the reaction?

i cannot speak for what other fellowships would do but if 2 homosexuals that were former way believers came to fellowship hand in hand i would talk to them outside and ask them if they remember what THE WORD says about homosexuality. if they said yes they know what THE WORD says BUT they want to continue doing their homosexual thing i would politley tell them that anyone who refuses to do as THE WORD instructs will not be welcome in my home. this applies to someone showing up who goes around doing drugs,stealing,etc that doesnt want to live according to THE WORD. i would not yell at them , i would not condemn them i would calmly tell them that if they wanted to change and neede help i would help. i have witnessed to a number of homsexuals since i started going to fellowship in 1980 and all of them wanted to continue their homo lifestyle. if they showed up wanting deliverance i would help them. when it comes to allegations of rev. rivenbark being associated with homosexuals anyone can make allegations. Jesus was accused of all kinds of stuff and eve3n his family said he was nuts. as far as i see it whoever made those allegations are liars. i run construction crews and have ben accused of stuff from other construction workers wanting my good paying job. i could make up stuff to say about other people here but would you believe what i would say without me having actual proff ? there are those who work for the adversary that are out to destroy ANY ministry that teaches GOD's WORD. look what happened to Jesus and Paul , Martin Luther. Paul wrote that all asia turned away from him. i hope i answered you question. standing against the homosexual lifestyle deosnt not mean that you mistreat people. you dont go verbally abusing someone cause they are homo.

DUH-- you just told me you would

obviously i'm not marking and avoiding you. but read the scripture GOD says mark and avoid. what does GOD mean by that ? i didnt write that scripture GOD did. if you have a problem with it go to GOD. i was told by a branch coordinator back in the 90's that the believers were to mark and avoid me cause i had some problems i was dealing with. i was kicked out cause i had some problems and martindale wanted a super clean household and didnt want any weakness. that was the wrong usage of that scripture. if somebody is tearing people down and causing all kinds of problems for people then it should be said to stay away from (namne) cause they are a troublemaker > mark and avoid. hey man i was hurt and screwed over by the martindale regime ! martindale and his cronies have ben long gone and thats in the past in my life. phil 3:13.

Well thank you-- now I know that despite all your claims of "new and improved" that "Mark and Avoid" certainly hasn't changed--that odious doctrine is still alive

Let me be the first

obviously you havent ben to a way fellowship sicne martindale was kicked out. how can you write that sorta stuff without even knowing ? thats like me saying something about you when i dont know anything about you. what date did you last attend a way fellowship ? i was at one last sunday. what i said is right on and if you want to call me a liar so be it. btw i never said mark and avoid and i never said new and improved. mark and avoid is written in the word and GOD had it written down for a reason. the ministry has changed but maybe you were one of those trouble markers that caused trouble and hurt others after all some of those people came here. i have seen people get attacked here by others. if the ministry was the same as martindales i wouldnt be going to their felowships !

well your looking at the way ministry of the long past. i was told stuff by the lally's who were my limb and branch coordinators at one time. they are gone and thats good. i was kicked out by a branch guy in the 90's cause i had problems. that branch guy later left. GOD answers prayer if you believe not if you go to a study or not. you do not have to fellowship with the way or any other ministry that teaches GODS word to be protected. i read alota post of people having conversation about the way of the past. the way of today isnt anything like martindales way. alota false ministers and so called believers left or were told not to come back cause they didnt want to believe the word only cause trouble. some of them are here on this website BUT there are others here that were wrongly thown outa the ministry by others who aint here no more. i was yelled at , told i was possesed and other stuff way back when. i went to some of those independant fellowships only to find some of the same trouble makers running them and after they taught they would talk crap about the way insted of staying focased on what was taught cause some taught the rightly divided word and some didnt. i cannot undo the way i was treated by leadership in that WAS in the way long ago so i put that behind me and focus on the WORD. i am sorry that some of you were treated badly but so was i and others and until martindale and the rest were run off things were bad. i relise i will probably get alotta flack from posting this and thats fine cause i know there are some evil people lurking here along with the really good people. its written in peter that there shall be "false ministers" that shall come in among you and no longer do believers sit idle and allow others to hurt us , we kick em out ! GOD looks on the heart and if you gotta heart to know GOD you will get taken care of. all i can do is tell you that the way ministy of today is so far different from martindales way that theres no comparison. i have yet to see one person get mistreated or yelled at or told they better come or else or any of that other heavy handed law crap in the way of today. as for you folks that are gonna bad mouth me or the ministy go ahead cause i will then know who to avoid and not reply to. may GOD heal the hearts of those who were hurt by martindale and his cronies. btw i got lots of faults but nobody but me reminds me of them. i get sick sometimes and pull muscles and sprain things get blisters get teeth filled have a bad day etc. right now my arms are really sow frum workin. Shellon i dont believe that someone attending a way ministry fellowship on a regular basis wrote you that letter. that goes against everthing the ministry does in this day and time. i would like to know who wrote you that letter because that is out of line. anyone talking to or treating someone in that manner is either not thinking about what their saying or they are being a jerk and trying to bad mouth the ministry. you dont go telling somebody "see i told you so". for them not giving their name is cowardly. as for forgivness that aint got nothing to do with weather you attend a way fellowship or not thats between you and GOD and it aint nonna my business. i'm sorry you got that letter and i hope your daughter gets well. GOD BLESS YOU

I don't see anything in that scripture to indicate that man can't make the planet uninhabitable.

if the entire WORD of GOD is going to come to pass then the planet has to be able to sustain human life. according to the enviromentalist c02 the stuff we breath out is destroying the earth. gas engines emit carbon monoxide and diesels emit sulfur dioxide but thats not whats being regulated. there have ben enviromentalist that have called for human giniside and have called man a virus on the face of the earth. the devil seeks worship anyway he can get it and this is one way. if man could make the earth where it couldnt sustain human life then the devil could wipe us all out right now and defeat GOD by not allowing all the rest of HIS WORD to come to pass.

Hi Shift

I hope that you stick around! Its great to remeber why I left.

They (the bible study folks) got in a hit and run accident with a neighbors car if you read the article.. as they had no parking and were creating a public nuisance ...I suppose that you wouldnt mind getting your car destroyed or your driveway blocked as long as whoever did it was at a bible study?

You can say whatever you want, but when you start being criminally negligent, bible study or no you are still subject to the same rules and laws as everyone else in your community. Your interpretation of the bible may give you some special exemption to be any kind of a-hole that you want to be, but in the real world there are requirements to at least be civil to your neighbors. You cant run a crackhouse, in many communities you cant run abusiness out of your home and in many other communities you cant have 20 cars show up at your house unless you have made legal arrangements for safe parking. THAT group didn't, was given a chance and refused---the only 'witness' that bible study gave to the community was that they were a bunch of self centered arrogant pr*cks

i just reread the article as i clipped and saved it and theres nothing about an accident in the la times article. i can definitly see someone getting upset about hit and run. you hope i stick around cause its great to remember why you left ? why do you post that ? you dont know anything about me but you accuse me of doing something to you and i dont know you , thats really not cool.

so now that the gov is forcin us to buy med ins. and the dept of energy is gonna make us get a carbon foot print permit on our houses it dont surprize mee that they want to tell us how we will interprit scripture after all the head commie (obama) has said he dont like that "BILL OF RIGHTS" ! lest satan should get an advantage of us for we are not ignorant of his devices. heres the anti global warming , man cant destroy the earth scripture 2Peter 3:7 !!! i still go to way fellowships and its awesome especially cause martindale aint around with his heavy handed man made law agenda ! i drop by ever so often and i dont go tell the way whats typed here. just look for old friends and check out the news. glad i saw this gov telling me how i can read the bible. i wonder how long before they tell us we cant have home fellowships ? they just did that in rancho cocamonga ca. near ontario. they shut somebodys (not way a fellowship) bible fellowship down about a month ago. it was in the la times newspaper. the local politicians told them they will to get a permit , obtain an enviromental impact report , etc. etc. ! the devil never stops and wants to shut those down that TEACH and PREACH THE WORD ! if you are speaking the word the devil will try to shut you down ! that goes for ANYONE regardless of what ministry you be with ! gotta stop these commies from taking our freedom away or it will become like the king harad stuff ! RIP Skip Mesquite