hampshire73

RottieGrrrl, thanks for posting this. I liked the picture of you and Nico. I had a large black & white mixed breed dog who was very sweet, got along with everyone including cats, but he passed away in January. I really miss Rolly, especially when I go for walks. I have a good friend who has a Labrador retriever and a chihuahua. Of the two, the Lab is the friendlier one. But she has a collection of designer bags to carry her chihuahua around in. "It takes all kinds to make a world..."

A few weeks ago I discovered GSC and spent several hours a day reading things from links and forums. One of the things that has stuck in my mind and has me wondering is something I saw in PoP, about how VPW near the end of his life was obsessed with the wrongness of gambling. He strongly objected to people "playing Hearts for a penny a point." I got the impression that he even objected to people playing cards, even if there was no money involved. When I read that, I thought, why the big deal? Is anyone being hurt by it? Then, when I read in the forums about the extent of the sexual abuse going on (and being perpetrated by VPW himself), well, I can't come up with adequate words to express my feelings. It's incredible to me that VP (or anyone claiming to be a Christian) would be so wrapped up in fighting against something that seems (at least to me) a minor matter while at the same time doing truly horrible things that hurt people. But, I'm getting off my own topic... What I want to know is, what does the Bible say about gambling? I know what it says about adultery, but the word "gambling" is not used anywhere in the KJV. I have looked in Young's and Bullinger's Critical Lexicon and Concordance, not only for "gambling," but also for every word I could think of that might be construed as being related to gambling, such as wager, risk, game, bet, and chance, but found nothing relevant. PoP mentioned that VP had done a Sunday night teaching on it. Does anyone know what he used as scriptural justification for this topic? I'm not a gambler (though I do like to play Rummy), but I'm curious about this.

As I recall, she was having some problems with her throat for at least a couple of years before I left (85-86). As a person who has had more than one throat surgery (and been told by doctors not to try singing because of it), I can understand how that might contribute to her doing something other than singing.

Bride and Jeff, Stickers on the back of Bibles... A few months ago, I found my old pocket sized Bible in a box and it has a Way sticker on the front of it that not only takes up the whole front but hangs a little off the side. I hadn't even thought of trying to remove it. I use a large print one now.

Hi, waterbuffalo! Years ago, I heard an Al-Anon speaker from Texas say that the whole state of Texas was qualified for Al-Anon because at the time both the governor and the lieutenant governor were alcoholics. You said it!

Hey, Steveo! We have communicated elsewhere, but I just found your introductory thread today! I remember Peter and Faye. They were operating Larry Newey's leather shop while he was either out WOW or in the WC. (Or maybe they bought it from him, but I remember that he got it back when he moved back and they left the area.) Ham, you and I have some things in common in terms of time, not geography. I took PFAL in 1974 (in Massachusetts) and went WOW (to New Jersey) in 1977. But I took the AC in 1976. Was accepted to the WC around 1979. Fortunately (in retrospect), something happened that made me realize I didn't have "natural leadership ability" so I didn't go in.

Doc, thanks for sharing. I have been out of TWI for 20+ years, but I did attend a fellowship almost 10 years ago with my ex-brother-in-law who is still in and WC. I remembered thinking that something was different, because I had to be vouched for to get in. In my day, the meetings were open to anyone. We tried to let the public know when and where we were meeting so new people could freely come in. However, even back in the 70s and early 80s, I would occasionally meet someone who would seem to me to be a puppet, not thinking for themselves. I took all of the available classes, and I believed a lot of what I was taught, but I tried to check things out from other sources too. Sometimes, I knew something was wrong, and I mentioned it to whoever was coordinating the particular class. Sometimes I would be told that there were errors in the recorded class, but these were corrected in later works, which I would be able to see or hear at some point. Other times, the coordinator would insist that it was correct but I just didn't understand it. Only once did someone raise their voice and say, "It's true because the MOG says it's true, and that settles it!" That person happened to be B@rb@r@ G33r, wife of you know who, and this was back before they even moved to HQ and went into the WC. At the time, I felt that this attitude was a direct contradiction of what I had gotten as the main message of the PFAL class -- thinking for yourself and searching the scriptures to see whether these things were so. I still think so. The difference now is that after finding GSC, I know that what I thought was an isolated occurrence then was (and is) much more widespread. I remember that hierarchy thing, too. When I married my first husband, who was a PFAL grad, I was told by several people that he wasn't worthy of me because he wasn't as spiritual as I was. (Ha!) They concluded this because I had taken all those classes, had been through the Advanced Class twice, and had been accepted to the WC, even though I ended up not going in. He had never gotten as far as the AC or taken the prerequisites, and he never aspired to leadership. We "left" TWI a few years later, not intentionally, we just stopped going because we had a lot happening in our lives at the time. When we thought about going back, a lot of the "twigs" just weren't there any more. (This was 21 or 22 years ago, and I just found out why a couple of weeks ago!) In retrospect, I'm thankful that it worked out that way. I have children, and my firstborn was there for our last couple of years in TWI. I can't imagine telling her who she can or can't date or marry. The same goes for my youngest, who was born around the time the manure hit the fan. After all, they are both adults now. This reminds me of something I read in another thread about cults controlling people by treating adults like children. Even though J____ was an adult (and in graduate school), she was still being treated like a child. Some parents do this to their children, but your narrative made it clear that it wasn't just her parents being unable to let her grow up -- it was the whole Household. That's sad.

Doc, I know what you mean. I'm not currently in regular contact with anyone I knew in TWI, and it's been like that for around 20 years. I feel the need to talk about what I have learned recently at GSC and other places, but I can't talk about it to people who weren't in it -- they wouldn't understand. In the past year, I've been trying to find and contact people I was close to in the past. This was because I was in lockdown on the Virginia Tech campus during the shootings last year, and I thought about all these people that I cared about but haven't spoken to in years. I resolved that if I got out alive, I would do something about it. So since then, I've been looking people up and emailing them. Anyway, since finding GSC, I have emailed a few of these people, and I noticed that if I mention TWI in the message, they do not respond to me! I don't know if they didn't get the message, didn't remember who I was, or don't want to have anything to do with anyone who mentions TWI. It was depressing. Anyway, I'm finding it therapeutic to participate in these bulletin boards. It's all that seems "available" to me at this point. Waterbuffalo, I was active in Al-Anon for several years after leaving TWI, but I started going there because I was married to an alcoholic. At the time, even though I hadn't been active in TWI for years and had joined a denominational church, I didn't know what I know now and didn't think of TWI as a cult, so I didn't know I needed recovery for that. Now that I know, I will think about applying the 12 steps to this. Thanks for mentioning it!

Hi, everybody! I just found this thread today and it's been interesting reading the posts. I know that some people faked speaking in tongues, but some didn't, including me. I also had two experiences with visitors understanding what I had said in tongues and when I asked, they both said that the interpretation was the same thing in English. One of these people was from Puerto Rico and the other was from Portugal. Each of them visited the twig I attended in college back in the 70s only once. Both of them thought that I knew the language I was speaking. I have heard before that there were non-Christian religions that also believed in SIT. And, as far as fakers are concerned, I didn't feel it took any special revelation to spot some of them. I remember a guy who had been in the campus fellowship for a year or so when I started, and I couldn't help but notice that every time he "spoke in tongues" it was exactly the same thing, even though the interpetations were different. It got to the point where I could recite his "tongue" along with him. I always wondered why nobody ever said anything to him about it. (I wouldn't, because I was just a newbie and besides, I didn't want to hurt his feelings.) I do remember those exceller's sessions, and I agree that some of the practices there were unnecessary and nonsensical. If you are getting the words directly from God, what sense does it make that you can pick a letter to start with?

RottieGrrrl, if you ordered 2 all beef patties with cheese, no sauce, no lettuce, no pickles, no onions, they might or might not give it to you without the bun. It depends on the individual who is filling the order and how they think. I know what you mean about the ranch dressing -- they use too much of it and it's not a favorite of mine anyway, but I do occasionally like to have a Big Mac.

I understand your frustration, RottieGirl. I don't eat fast food as much as I used to because I'm trying to reduce my blood pressure and my weight, but when I do, I give them two exhaustive lists: what I want on it and what I don't want on it. And even though it ties up traffic a bit, if I'm using the drive-through, I don't drive off until I have checked to make sure they gave me exactly what I ordered. A lady I used to know said that the first 50 years she spent catering to everyone else, and the second 50 she started looking out more for herself. I think of that sometimes. It was when I turned 50 that I started being more "demanding" when it comes to things I'm paying for.

Maybe I should try that next time I have to make a presentation.

Ross did go WOW to Iowa, then returned to Massachusetts. I have some pictures of him from the 70s and 80s, but they are not in digital form. When I last saw him in December 1998, he looked just the same. He went into the Way Corps in the 80s but I don't remember what year.

It's me again. I seem to be hogging this forum, but you see, I'm making up for lost time! Steveo, I remember most of the people you listed from the Berkshires. From another part of your list, I can tell you that Ross (my brother-in-law) is still in TWI. I haven't talked to him personally since my father-in-law's funeral about 9 years ago, but I heard through the family grapevine that he got married last week. I wish him much happiness -- he's a good guy.

Steveo! I remember Bema Bound and several of its members. I looked at your profile and remember your face. Your name will come to me when I stop trying so hard. I was in western Mass from 1973 on (except that I went WOW to NJ in 1977, moved to the DC area 1989-1991, and moved to Virginia in 1994). I was in Springfield 1980-1989 and 1991-1994. I should post a picture on my profile but I've been putting it off. My hair is gray now, but people tell me that my face looks the same. Maybe you'll recognize me.

I know this contribution is late, but I just found GSC recently. Roy's last name is spelled REIZOVIC. This will help when you try to google him. BTW, he was the best man at my wedding in 1980.

Hi, dragonlots! I'm new to GSC, but I used to live in Springfield, MA, 1980-1989 and 1991-1994. I knew Tom Burke. We first met when we were both in college (in the 70s) and years later when he was the limb leader of Massachusetts, he performed my wedding. I haven't seen or heard from him in over 20 years. I don't recognize any of the other names, but after the 70s, I mostly knew people in the western part of the state.

Jean, I remember you and Alex. I was in the Springfield area 1980-1989 and 1991-1994, but I never saw or heard of him after the last time I saw you. I hope all is well with you now.

This is the first time I've seen a reference to me in GSC. I'm Pam, but my last name isn't Vachon any more. I haven't seen any of the people on your list in recent years except for the one I used to be married to. I notice, jetc57, that you posted this in 2005. If you're still around, it would be nice to "talk" to you. I knew Larry and Peter. I visited Great Barrington in 1994, a few months before I moved to Virginia, and found Larry at his leather shop. At the time, he was talking about possibly retiring, so I don't know if he's still in the same location. I haven't seen Peter since about 1980, when we all moved out of the last Way Home I lived in.

Ditto, act2! I discovered the Cafe just recently (less than two weeks ago, I think). Like you, I had a lot going on in 1986-1987 (buying a house, renovating it, having our youngest child, and divorcing), and did not know that all this was going on in the ministry. From time to time I would hear that people left or were kicked out, but until I found GSC, I didn't know what it was all about. It was great to hear your voice again after all these years, Ralph. Pawtucket, thanks for all you do to make GSC what it is!

Thank you, waysider! It looks delicious, even though I'm more of a chocolate type than strawberry.

As I recall (I was in Massachusetts at the time), Tony Collins was the first one from the New England Patriots to take the class, and he witnessed to Irving Fryar and maybe others who took it later. About Hayes Gahagan: A bunch of us (College WOWs from all over New England) went to Maine to go door-to-door campaigning for him. We were told to pretend that we were from Maine (it was my first trip there!) because the voters might be upset if they thought the election was being influenced by outsiders. I also remember the subliminal advertising flap. Those were the days!

1973 to either 1986 or 1987. The last ROA I went to was in 1986. I remember that I was expecting my second child then; she was born in March 1987. I took PFAL in 1974, was a College WOW three years, I think. Advanced Class 1976 in Emporia. Went WOW in 1977, after attending PFAL 77 in Athens, OH. I seem to remember taking the Advanced Class again in 1979. I just remembered something -- I got married in 1980 and at the ROA in 1981, I went to get a new engraved AC nametag (remember those?), but they didn't want to allow me to have a hyphenated last name and insisted on using my first name and my husband's last name. My then-husband and I just drifted away from TWI in late 1986 or early 1987. We didn't really intentionally leave, but we stopped going and didn't know a lot of what was going on in the ministry at that time. I knew something was going on, and it seemed like other people we knew weren't going any more either. I think everyone else assumed that we knew more than we did. Anyway, I stumbled upon GSC one day last week and have been coming here almost every day since then. The first time, I just read for hours. The things I have read here have helped me make sense of a lot of things that I noticed back then but didn't understand.