socks

Hey peop's, back again. Look at the kids here! Buck, greets! The masterherbalist has stories to tell! We should hear more of what you've done, sounds like a great time was had by all! Buck, Hope DOES have a great way with words. And Living Waters was a great band. Gary could sing his butt off and played nice guitar too. There's more to that story that can be told I'm sure. ;)--> Okay, here's an idea, a favor to request, and I know New Years is fast approaching, so no hurry but if anyone has an idea to throw in, I'm all e-ars. I have 3 lines to a song I wrote several years ago, the last 3 and that's it. They're almost like the tag ending of a verse of chorus. The title is "The Best Thing I've Done", as least for now. They go like this, (with little chord symbols on top if they lay out right): D-----------------------G--------Em If all our tomorrows were never to come, -------A----------------------D--------G I'd be happy with all that I've done. - -------D---------A---------------D Loving you is the best thing I've done. --------- That's all I've got. It's a waltz, in 3/4, with a light love song kind of feel. Any ideas on what should come before that? CK? Shoot me an e-mail at soques@hotmail.com or post 'em, whatever works, if anyone has an idea. Nothing's too short. Maybe we'll get something here. Thanks! :)--> ------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:38.] [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:39.] [This message was edited by socks on December 31, 2002 at 2:41.]

Mike, I feel compelled to make an observation that you might not agree with but might be worth considering, even though I'm committed to letting you say your piece and wind this out. I'm not sure how much contact you have with actual, living former PFAL grads, so bear with me for a sec. "Mastering" PFAL isn't an impossible task nor is it one that has never been accomplished. Over the years it's taken on a somewhat mystical and vague "spiritual plateau" kind of aura. VP's instructions notwithstanding, any thinking person needs to really look at that honestly and clearly before embarking on a journey to accomplish it if that's what they want to do. (VP states in your last lost teaching that is what people should do. I personally think that his perspective on how and what people were doing with his teaching was in reality somewhat clouded his final years, warped slightly by his perceptions that the ministry he had invested his life in had abandoned the precepts of what he felt important. He wasn't entirely in touch with the ministry as a whole, by any means, and had many unresolved issues with his own top leadership. That's not a criticism on face value, just a very general way of saying that VP was fighting a battle that was very much his own as well as his ministry's...Now, that's all debatable, but I'm not entering that to argue it, just to site that's my background opinion. To you this teaching represents some kind of clarity, but to me it's much like what he said over and over again over the years.) PFAL, the series of 3 classes including Intermediate and Advanced, (although VP himself said oftentimes that everything was included in the Foundational PFAL) was a class on "Keys". He said he didn't intend to teach the bible from Genesis to Revelation, rather to teach the keys and principles that would open the bible to the student and allow them to learn and walk themselves. As far as the CONTENT of PFAL, it's knowable. It seems huge the first time through, but anyone who made a reasonable effort soon realized that it was 12 sessions, each about 3 hours long, and with a few hours a month even at the minimum, it was learnable and knowable. The basic ideas, concepts and techniques aren't terribly difficult to learn. I think some of the ideas and conclusions don't add up quite the way he presented them, but that's another topic. Overall, he covered a lot of bible and got me reading it. "Mastering" has different definitions, depending on the content. If learning the books of the bible is part of mastering it, then once memorized, you're done. Speaking in tongues, the same. Once you learn what it is and manifest, mastering it is to simply continue doing it. "Mastery" of S.I.T. was and is as easy to achieve as any of the things of God. It's not a grunt and groan "look what I did" kind of thing. So please consider this: the difference between learning and mastering. We see through a glass darkly and will NEVER "master" walking with God because 1) we won't know as we are known till we are gathered or raised with Christ, and 2) life isn't a mastery of anything, it's an ongoing process of growth and learning. Today we know as much as we can, tomorrow, the same and hopefully a little more. He who becomes the "master" in his mind, is the slave of his own knowledge because he's stopped learning. I'm fully aware that there are people "out there" who feel like you and are struggling with their own inner battles over "what happend and what went wrong". I can see how each must take their own course, and each will do that. Just consider this - to many, the understanding of PFAL as a thing to master and maintain was an early part of the growth curve. Ultimately, one of the primary initiatives presented by VP was to take what he offered, learn it, and take it even further-do something with it, apply it somehow. Unfortunately, he didn't allow for the fact that such a "mastery" might include drastic change. But then, he was just a man like you and I. I'm not trying to be egotistical, just offering this perspective. Give it a whirl. ---------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Any Way Weinies secretly reading and reporting what is on this thread can glom on to this bit of Way Prod trivia: we're all doing fine! Every former participant that I'm aware of or have heard news of or spoken to in the last year hasn't dropped off the vine of life and shrivelled up in to some unbelieving piece of un-Way-blessed grease. Far from it me lads and lassies...to quote Nine Inch Nails: Bow down before the one you serve You're going to get what you deserve. Way spies get their rewards from their Way masters while they lick their hands like dogs and grovel for recognition. They can dumpster-dive all they want for their Kibbles N Bits, I had steak for dinner. Now all you Way Gee-Bee's go eat your millet and pray there isn't another reduction in staff salaries. We'll be enjoying CHRISTMAS in a couple days and as our families gather around to celebrate life together I'll say a silent prayer for you that God hasn't given up on your sorry souls and will send you a sign that will open your eyes, clear your ears and bring light and joy to your lives and throw open the doors of your heart to the love that's everywhere around you! Even as you creep in darkness His light knows no fear. Merry Christmas to all Way GB Sp-eyes from CK's Music Thread! --------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

A al, here we are! Now I don't want to give the impression me and Boz were trading licks and knocking back shots at his place. After he left the Steve Miller Band he stayed in the San Francisco Bay Area and put together a band, a pretty large group with horns, etc. They played around quite a bit and we opened on some nights in the same places. It was cool to work the same little clubs, as I'd been enjoying his stuff since the first SM album, "Baby's Calling Me Home", etc from Children of the Future. He was a cool guy, never said much and always had anywhere from one to two knock-out babes on his arm when he came in. He was real laid back. Had real long hair for awhile then cut it. I watched him like a hawk. Played a big Gibson guitar. It was a great time, with some many clubs around northern Califorina and so many bands. He went on to a big pop career of course, just as Steve Miller did. Ted, one of the things I remember most about the early JN days was the travel we did. When I tell people today I've been in every major city of every state at least once, it sounds crazy, but seems we criss crossed the ol' USA a few times. Transportation developed like everything else did. At first we used a station wagon and a VW bus, our own cars and whatever we could stash in them. Then the Way got some fleet vans and we got to use the "green and the blue" vans, and a little trailer was added to carry the equipment. We loaded and unloaded like busy bees. Struck every room we played in that I can remember. Some great fellowship times with people after the shows at midnight, shlepping stuff out to the "vans". The Way had some great people, I'll say that. Everywhere, just wonderful folks that loved God. Early itineraries were up to 2-3 weeks. I remember one that was 4 weeks. The drill was always the same, drive all night to get to where we were going by trading off drivers, meet the folks where we were playing, in the evening set up, play, hang out afterwards, strike the room, pack it up and then hit the road for the next place. We learned to sleep sitting up those first couple years. Once the van I was in had the heater go down and it was in the middle of the winter, snowing and we were hauling a$$ to make it to some city. We had another 4th corps guy along, and Janet was with us on that one. I can still remember him sitting up in the back seat in the middle of the night, frost coming out of his mouth and saying "Man, it's cold! What're you guys doing!?" We were going to the gig, man! Can't let a little thing like 10 degree cold stop us! We just wore more clothes. We did some pretty outrageous stuff those years, sometimes straggling in an hour before the show after we'd driven 12 hours in snow to get there but we always got there. No days off on the road, that came later. The first few years the "day off" was the day we drove to the next city. Later, when the motor coach was bought and we expanded JN and JB came onboard, it was like heaven, if sleeping in a clothes drier is heaven. I know everybody thought that coach was plush and it was nice, but travelling for 2-3 weeks with a foot between you and everyone else can be tough. The sleeping bunks were about 6 foot one, fine for me, just a tad short for Ken. We were stacked 3 to a side. Seats up front, tables. We had to learn to be extremely patient with each other and there's no guage for the patience the women had travelling that way. We had a lot of great times. Never slept more than a half hour straight through in that coach, just about time you'd drift off we'd hit a bump. That was hard for me after a year or so, but we had great times. Then you'd wake up and jump down to get dressed with 5 of your best friends every morning. Line up for the little bathroom and pray we weren't on a bumpy stretch of road. Coffee. More coffee. Pray, read the bible. Laugh. Man, we laughed a lot those years. You did a good job, Ted. -------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Gee, it's nice to be appreciated, CK! Well, I'm back yet again, and I think what I was trying to say in that puff of post above was that I think Mr. Ted had the right idea in how to set up Way Prod so it would be on it's own rather than a department of the Way. Going back in my head to those early times, I think we were all heading towards developing things and it would have worked, could have worked nicely with Ted and the gang at the Way Nash doing their thing and the people in other locations doing theirs and just working together. Distinctly independent, but in cooperation with one another. Maybe do things together sometimes, mix it up, whatever. I'd like to hear the details of what Ted's idea was, and I'd say I bet it would have really allowed everyone to develop on their own with their own ideas and "voices". One thing you're going to get when people are passionate about their work is ego. Yup, the nasty "E" word, ego. You want that, in fact you need that kind of personal buy in and ownership to "create" something. There has to be conviction and drive to see your ideas work or they'll never get done. Hassling and haggling over them isn't a bad thing IMO, it's the way you work things out. It simply has to be tempered with an equal passion for a common goal that is shared by everyone involved. Well, it's easier to see in hindsight anyway. Way Prod has suffered in some it's periods because the people trying to wave the wand over it don't know what they're doing. When you get people saying things like "I don't know music but I know it's just not right spiritually", you're in trouble. That's a whole nother kind of ego, and it's more dangerous than some guy thinking he just reinvented how to play an "E" chord, because it puts GOD into the whole thing and we all know there's no arguing when it's GOD telling someone how to do something. Good Lord, imagine what you'd get if someone tried to apply that approach to, uh dance or sumpin'... --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Looks like some strange network path... Okay, Ted's on it I see and I'm puddling along. I'll jump back to a step to the New Knoxville meeting. I was there with Cookin' Mama, from the west coast. We'd been out and about, we came in for that "Rock of Ages" concert night at the winter youth advance in ... 1971? think it was and that was our first exposure to the Way Nash. Then in the summer we did a little travel around out of California, visited Wichita, KS and played with Dove it seems like, did a club gig or two with a local band "Crank". Went to Indianapolis, IN with Lynn and played there a few nights and Good Seed with Rick Panyard were working, then hit the Way that summer for the Rock of Ages. That ran in to the NK meeting. Afterwards we headed for New York, and played around with PDSTRO, up in Rye, and at Alley Pond Park (sp?) for a great gig I still remember where we did sets and some stuff together with Pressed Down including a kick a$$ version of "Christ is Coming" with Ralph on Hammond organ. Great time in NY, great people, Donald and Polly Lewis put my wife and I up for a couple weeks while we got our VW camper bus fixed, which had blown out an engine going in over the Throgs Neck Bridge. C-Mama wasn't really a "ministry" band, although we were doing our own brand of Christian music and worked with Jim Doop who we'd all met prior to PFAL. Loud, and very aggressive sound. We were grads by then of course, but initially we were shooting for a commercial career. It got mixed up as time went on. We broke up at the same time the Way West was taken over by the Way Nash, and I started working with Steve Abella of Alameda, CA who I'd played with in other bands previous to the Way years. We worked up another band called "Sonrise" with Bruce Britton, Pete Miller, Mike Hughes and Mike Richie, all Californians. We went out to play at the Rock of Ages 72, Ted may remember Bruce and I met with him to talk about working with Way Prod, we had ideas and a couple sets of music. We were leaning towards a mix of secular and Christian stuff, with an idea to do mixed media, maybe theater and music together. Steve, Pete and Mike were black belt song writers and had stuff we hadn't worked up yet that was great. We hoped to work clubs and support ourselves and try a travelling caravan with the Way Nash, which had been talked about for a couple years. That didn't come together with Ted, so we headed back west. I went out WOW that year, and ended up in the Way Corps. That's the short abbreviated timeline for me up to the 4th Corps, leaves out a lot, but there's a lot better left unsaid maybe for the time being. Those days were much different than the later years, for better or worse. We fell out with VP that summer in 71 when we hashed through our book of lyrics. We weren't writing verbatim scripture in to every song, and there was a disagreement over how to say certain things. A big disagreement, to be honest. He wanted to change them, we wanted to leave them as they were. One idea was to leave them as they lay and write other stuff that would be along the lines of what he wanted. It didn't work out at all at that time. One thing I think about those early years that's true of all the Way Prod stuff that has stood up at all over the years is that what was written, sung and played came from the hearts and souls of the people themselves. It wasn't scripted or directed, it said what we felt and while that wasn't always crystal clear, looking back it's funny - a lot of people got the message anyway. Cookin' Mama would get 100's of people coming to our concerts when we'd throw them and a lot of them heard the message of Jesus Christ and believed. A lot of others just got stoned and danced the night away. Everybody had fun. We played clubs, often as the 2nd or 3rd billed band, the "underdog" opener spot, and our attitude regardless of who we played with was "take no prisoners". We'd open the night and leave people drained, sweaty and happy and leave it up to the headliner to figure out how to follow us. We didn't always succeed, but we always tried. No matter what, people knew we MEANT it when we played. We held our own with some interesting acts - John Lee Hooker, Robben Ford, Harvey Mandell, Boz Scaggs, the old Loading Zone with Linda Tillery, Tower of Power. We were young, but we were ready to deal. All the stuff I loved of Way Prod's music was like that in one way or another. Sonrise was no different when it came later, most of the bands and singers of that time all had that quality I think. Wandered off there a bit, have to get back to the thread here next time... ------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

That's a great piece about the conscience. "Rounding off the corners" so to speak. Craig has a habit of digging around in the bible for "new light" to defend his actions and set his course. It's like a dog who can't figure out where that bone of his is so he tears up the flower garden and destroys it looking for it. In the end all that dog gets is a dirty face and a lot of dead flowers. All of this makes me think: at what point does a Christian ministry realize it needs to teach it's leadership how to lie and "when it's okay" to do it? Moses - A mom hides her baby from those who will murder it, and VOILA! We got a new piece o' light here. Oooooh, heavy! We never saw that before! I think that's the expected response they want, right? The Way has become a ministry of Lists and Techiniques. Everything in the bible is taken out of it's context and made to fit in to some list to do this, another list for victorious that. It's like a freakin' self help group but without the help. As long as they get up in the morning and start ticking off something on a list of "keys for the effectual walk of power", they know they're on track, in fellowship, aligned, harmonized and on point. Their goal seems to be "Successful Living Through Micro-Management of Every Non-Essential Detail in Life". Meanwhile the important things slip away. If it didn't hurt people, it would be funny. They can lie all the want to. That sound they hear is the ice under their feet slowly cracking. ------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

theend, that section was covered years ago by vp in the advanced class. craig's interpretation is dramatically different than his mentor's. in the a.c. it was taught as sarcasm. the king knew dam well that he never got any good news from the prophet, so when he asks the question, the answer is with the tone of "oh suuuure! absolutely, king. you'll win hands down. go now, have no fear! heh heh...you know i'm always behind you!" picture sadaam hussein asking cole what he thinks of his chances against a u.s. military action -"you'll do well! you've got a greeeeat army!" politics aside, craig's assertion that a person speaking on god's behalf and for his people would lie just says what low esteem he holds god in and that his conscience is seared like an over cooked strip of bacon. his morals and ethics speaks for themselves. how anyone can trust these people around their wives, children, family and money, let alone ministry, is beyond me. birds of a feather flock together i guess. --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!..... [This message was edited by socks on December 15, 2002 at 23:18.] [This message was edited by socks on December 15, 2002 at 23:22.]

Hay'yall. Been offline for a day or two. Really enjoy reading up on the latest on this thread! CK, we preached "one God or the other" for years in the Way when it came to success. In the long run, it's a slippery slope trying to decide on the surface who's really successful and who isn't. (Look at the Way - a few short years ago they thought they were at the top of their game and today, they're like an album clipped for the bargain bin, with all other one hit wonders. Even now they no doubt yearn for a "comeback" release and subsequent world tour!) The inherent problem with that kind of evaluation is setting the bar for success for being "at the top" of a field, etc. How do you do that? Oftentimes it's the flavor of the month or the year that seems like it's a "success". Good Lord, I've heard everyone from Huey Lewis to The Doobie Brothers being hyped as "seed boys", or being sold out to the devil because they're selling lots of units. Like a gold record means the devil's behind you. It's trite - it makes mass popularity the standard for achievement, godly or devilish. Typically, in the Way you'll hear whoever's being lionized by the media as the newest fad as the one being promoted by the devil. It makes the news media the standard setter. Material abundance isn't the standard, benchmark, or primary indicator of spiritual achievement. Just because someone pulls their pants down and farts in a mic and everyone wants to hear them do it so they spend money on their concerts and cd's hardly means they've tapped in to the Devil's Pantry and are being promoted by Beelzebub himself, nor does it mean they're possessed or born again of some wrong seed. It just means there'll always be a market for audio flatulance. And some people like fart jokes. But it makes sense, in a way, that the Way marks popularity in the marketplace as a spiritual indicator because they love money and what it can do for their objectives. I can see why they look jealously at anyone else who gets any of it, because I'm sure they think they'd be better off having it. You've got a song in your heart. The world will be a better place for it being sung regardless of whether one person or a million hear it. THAT you sing it is what's significant, first and foremost I believe. No matter where you go, you'll never meet another "you". You're the only one of You we get - before you none like you, after you - no more the same, ever again. You are a one time deal. You're precious and for that reason alone it's a wonder to be on the planet with you at the same time. Know what I mean? ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

ChattyKathy, you're sweet. I'm still pondering Ted's question way back up there somewhere and especially how it related to your first post. I'm slow, still pondering... be back... ------------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Zix, I'd agree on Brian Wilson. He's done some very nice music. It's funny how The Beach Boys were pulling from the Chuck Berry sound same time as the Stones and Beatles, but they did it totally different. He really developed over the years. I love the sound of "Don't Worry Baby" and even tunes like "Surfer Girl" sets a mood that's unique with the voices and instruments. "In My Room" is a deep tune..."Lie awake and pray" is one of those lines that captures the heart of just about every young person at one time or another. Behind the scenes, I'd think Phil Spector will probably be remembered for all the work he did in the studio. George Martin too, the "5th Beatle" as he's been called. I don't think they would have advanced as far as they did without his arranging and studio expertise. The shear volume of material both those bands recorded really set the bar for rock artists striving to write and record their own music. ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hey Hope, us lefties gotta stick together, after all everybody else is doing things backwards! We've talked about that thumb picking before. You do it very well. It's not my thing, I tried some John Pearse thumb picks and finger picks awhile back, a buddy that plays banjo got me messing with them. I'm dangerous using them, as in not good. It's hard to get a good sound with them, I can't just seem to get the knack. I know a few "rolls" and that's about it. I just stick to the heavy Fender flats and nobody gets hurt. --------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Sunesis, that's intersting about your picking down strokes naturally. So the "sweep" was the normal way for you to play. It took me awhile to get the feel for that, I'd worked so long at the up/down stroke and getting that coordinated. Never really got it fluid except for little parts here and there. That's cool. I'm left handed, so that was a challenge initially. I was 10 or so and on the borrowed guitar/chords on binder paper program. I'd play them left handed, and then the guy would come for his guitar and wince at the chords which were all wrong of course. I finally figured it out, but switched, it was just too much of a hassle. So for me, it was bass-ackwards with my hands and it felt comfortable to pick UP. but not down. For awhile it felt like the guitar was upside down, which it was for me. I drove my teachers nuts because I could never decide which hand to write with. This may explain a lot of things. I'm pretty locked in to the up/down pattern now, although I find whatever gets the music right is the "right" way to do it. Whatever works! I have a bunch of Eric Johnsons's music. Love Cliffs of Dover, and the stuff off Venus Isle. "SRV" is a really nice tune on that, with Jimmy Ray Vaughn doing a guest shot solo. Saw Eric with Steve Vai (YIKES!) and Joe Satriani a few years ago on their 3G tour. Kenny Wayne Shepherd opened. Eric's tone was deLICious! He had a lot going on, pedals, stuff. Handled it very well, played a 335 for most of the songs. Flawless, passionate. Joe Satriani is in my top 10 folder. I really like his playing and sound, the tunes he writes. If I had to take 2 albums to a desert album they might be B.B.'s "Live at the Regal" and Joe's "Flying in a Blue Dream", and an mp3 of "Krush of Love" snuck in on the side. Satch is probably my #1 overall favorite guitarist, harmonically, tonally, the whole deal. Buuuuuut, Robben Ford! Met him and played around San Francisco years ago around 1970 or so when the band I was in worked some of the same clubs he was doing. His brother was playing harp and he was a young guy. Played just exquisitely, totally "on". He was a pretty down to earth and humble guy. We were all Christians and we "rapped the Word" with him a little and I remember him being so "mellow", nodding and smiling and pulling his hair back, just going "yeah! that's cool, yeah". He seemed like he had a great attitude and outlook on life, very "together" for such a young guy. It was over 30 years ago, but at the time we all were knocked out by what he was playing and the fact that it was to club audiences of like, 20. On the other hand, saw the Billboard Music Awards tonight. Michael Jackson looked like he must be getting frequent flier miles from his plastic surgeon. Dunno.... Sack time! ---------------------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Wow, lots here to get caught up on! Yana, nice list! Those are great players for sure. Joe Pass sure made his mark. Classy, great tone. Ran across him back in the 60's when he was involved with Synanon. A band I was in played some Synanon events through a connection with one of the band members family. Great player. (Synanon was supposed to be a big drug-rehab prgram. It looked to me like that was where they kept the GOOD drugs but that may have been just my, uh, experience) And Kenny Burrell, yes, of course! Never totally checked out Martino but like what I've heard. Al Dimeola is a name that comes to mind with that fast picking muted sound of his, Sunesis mentioned him. "land of the midnight sun" is a killer album with vintage Al sounds. I've been mistaken for him when once or twice when I was young-er. Recently daugther picked up his album one day and drug out a picture of me from long ago and said "It's you!" Oh to be young. Gotta get back to work, and get caught up later. A la, my wife is in love with Nora Jones too. Got her cd and it's on a lot round her of late. She was on Saturday Night Live a week ago, she looks so young to have that voice! till later.... ------------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

We've been down the same path, Bluzman. I can relate. Heavy guage BD's were the first strings I used too. When I finally got an electric, that's all I really knew about, so I kept putting them on. Finally the guy at the store threw me a set of flat wound Gibson's and said "try these". I knew what they were but didn't know where to get them. Aaaah....relief! I was kinda slow. What a great guitar. Dang the tuners, though! It's a keeper though, your right. It's got time in it's pores. Aging is beautiful thing. It reminds me of how similar the path is for so many of us. When I picked it up it was hard to get information, so I'd glom on to anything or anyone who knew anything. If I got an album, I practically turned it inside out trying to absorb what it offered. Along the way, you're listening and learning and every little thing you learn is like gold. Musicians all over the world know what it's like to be sitting there and suddenly go "wwwwwhoooooAAAA! what was that!" and know the excitement of discovering something for the first time. Everyone learns things, but in their own way. Each musician has that sense of "ownership" that comes with practice and learning. Even when we're all learning the same things it's "ours" and we can share it with pride. "Look what I made! You made it too! Cool". I get a little overwhelmed inside thinking of what music brings to all of us. What can you say? That's what kills me about guys like Les Paul - they're so generous. He never seems to have held any of his stuff back from the world, trying to protect it. Some musicians are secretive and don't want their stuff "stolen". With all the people doing the same thing, there's always going to be someone who's coming up with the same stuff somewhere. He's professional, but seems to get a kick out of people doing things with his ideas he never thought of. Like his humbucking pickup design. I've read interviews where he's said it never occured to him to drive them cranked up to get distortion out of a preamp, as guys like Clapton and others did. He wanted to get a CLEAN, QUIET sound out of them. But he thought it was great what people were doing with his ideas, and encouraged experimentation. Can't beat that. -------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

bluzman, you BETTER hold on to it. That's cool, the ES 150 and the Recording King. What kind of strings have you got on it? Would love to see a pic of it. That's an oldie alright. Was it a solid or hollow body? Grizzy, yeah! I ref'd Chet back aways in relation country music and Ted's comments. Yeah! Chet, the Country Gentlmen, was another innovator of the instrument, and extremely expressive as a voice in just about any kind of music. There's an album that he and Les Paul did, "Monsters" that's killer, can't think of the whole title. They left a lot of the comments in and it's pretty funny. I'm with you, he was great. A lot of people think of him as "country" and dismiss him. Anyone who digs in and checks him out (like Mark Knofler and a gazillion great players everywhere) learns something. Linda, yeah, he holds the first patent on a multi track recording head setup, sorry, and that's only at half-geek, I'm not even a true geeker. It allowed him to record their voices and his guitar more than once, so they could harmonize, and he could do cool things with the guitar. It sounded like 3 Mary's and 3 Les's. Or 5, or 12. Very cool. Thanks, Zix. I wouldn't mind having one of those! --------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Yeah, Grizz, Les Paul invented and patented the first multi track recorder device and used it on his early recordings in a sound on sound setup. Ol' Edison invented audio recording but Les really made it what it is today. He also burned his own recordings on vinyl, with a mastering setup made from the flywheel of an auto engine. I seem to remember seeing a photo of him standing over this rig that looked very industrial age, all black and silver metal and wires. He really developed echo delay, the forerunner of digital delay effects we can buy today in little boxes for 30 bucks. The double-coil "hum-bucker" pickup for guitars is his baby. He was a true innovator! Not to mention, early in his career he was in an auto accident that damaged his right arm elbow, and it had to be set permanently in to place at the time. He had his guitar brought in and he had them set his arm in to the correct position so that he could play. Pictures always show him with his right arm slightly raised up at the elbow and that's why. I'm surprised he didn't just have them weld a pick in to his hand, too. "Idol" is a term tossed around freely in pop music, but Les is a man any aspiring musician could put on a pedestal and not feel cheap. He's the Real Deal. -------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Thanks for the tip, Zixar. Maybe Santa will toss that under the tree, if I give him a hint! That is good info, Hope. I seem to have a reference somewhere in the back of my head (need to make more room for hair back there, though) about what Keynote said of Salieri not having quite the intense relationship with Mozart that the movie portrays. That helps a lot. Linda Z - that's a sweeeet guitar! It's HERE! in case anyone wants to check it out, or do an ebay search for "Claption guitar" and it's right at the top! Cool axe! LZ - you mentioned Les Paul a ways back. Mr. Paul didn't actually invent the electric guitar, I'm grabbing the mem cells here - it was actually "invented" by a guy who worked for Gibson I thiiiink, Lloyd Lear/Loar? in 1923. I'm going to check around my books and get that nailed down. Les Paul is widely considered to be the "father" if not technically the inventor of electric guitars however, as he really put together the first solid body ele. guitar that solved a lot of problems with pickups and intonation. He'd been working on pickup and body design ideas since the 30's and was known for his work throughout the 40's and on. Some controversy exists over whether Leo Fender or Les Paul came up with a usable design first. Both produced instruments that have set a standard. From what I've read they had concurrent efforts along the same lines for many years, but Les Paul was a few years ahead. I've read Leo Fender actually conferred with Les Paul around 1950 while Paul lived in Los Angeles and they discussed ide . So they don't appear to have been adversaries. Fender had a specific sound he was looking for - clear, clean, and simliar to the pedal steel. Les Paul was interested in a technically superior instrument as well as sound. One of Les's first "official" solid bodies was put together when he was working with Epiphone guitars and he took their neck and attached it to a piece of wood and called it "The Log". He began working with his pickups, and the rest is history. Leo Fender is on record as going to market first with his design for the Broadcaster, a forerunner of the Telecaster. He had the prototypes completed for both in 1949. Les Paul got his out with Gibson in 1952, if I remember the year right. Les had definitely been working on design issues for many years previous though and personally played his own instruments he'd made for years prior to marketing any of them. As the "idea man", he was at the top as far as I'm concerned, and he was an awesome player too. That's kind of vague, but that's the idea I think. More than we wanted to know? But there's really a looooot more of course... -------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hi Sunesis, no, I'm no Paginini player. Studied up on some of it for awhile though, couple of the Caprices, and I whacked away at Moto Perpetuo for awhile. Got some nice bits and pieces though that I use, it helped me to try some new stuff and get a little different approach. I busted my middle left finger several years ago, and when it healed up I decided to start taking a broader approach to get back to form. Ever check out the OLGA site? I think it's down now, bet you've been there. Ran across tabs for days, and a Judy Letostak who had a whole series of Paganini and Malmsteen related exercises. They're cool, if you want them I can dig 'em up and send them to you. I never mastered the sweep technique, just in small snips here and there. Worked with a guy at one time who had it down cold. Just knocked me out seeing it up close. He was a Malmsteen freak, gave me a few tips, I've tried to incorporate it but it's hard if you don't keep on it. I just add a little here, little there. What kind of stuff do you work on? The Pagster was a killer player alright, definitely a rock mentality, fire, passion. Sounds like he lived the rock-star life too. I've read people rioted once after a concert he did, they got so excited. I can see that, he must have fried their ears! What's a good rock concert if you haven't kicked over a chair or two, right? Is that The Fire Bird, of Stravinsky? Metallica is a great band. Good stuff. -------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Keynote, I'd love to hit the Montral Jazz Festival! If I win the lottery anytime soon, we'll ALL go! That competition sounds cool. All that dedication, and the pressure of performing. It's amazing what can be done. Nver seen the Red Violin, have to check it out. So the Salieri connection wasn't so strong, I wondered. It was a good story telling device, a littl "dramatic license" or a lot. I love the opening where he's talking to the priest and playing little snippets of his tunes and the priest doesn't recognize any of them. Then he hits a Mozart line and the priest starts humming it, "Yes, yes! I know that! I didn't know you wrote that!" Salieri's look is worth a 1,000 words. It's a deep look into pride, envy and how it can consume a person. Cool flick. So how's your instrument these days? Playing at all? ---------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Greetings, Keynote. Welcome! Mozart and Marsalis would be an interesting collaboration, hey? Mozart - I recently bought a used VHS of "Amadeus". I always liked that movie a lot. Have you seen it? If so, what did you think of the the way Tom Hulce did him? I thought it was really entertaining. F. Abraham's did a cool job on Salieri. Good movie. Nicoli Paganini is a classical guy I picked up on several years ago. He's popular with speedster style guitarists, metal shredders. That's not my thing really but I found his story and music pretty wild. The Caprices of course (learned bits and pieces, never mastered any of it) but I like his Violin Concerto No. 4 in D minor and the Moto Perpetuo. Got 'em on a cd set titled "The Best of Paginini" of all things. Know much about him? I haven't been able to decide if he was just a wild man, showboat, or what. Quite a player, that's for sure. Catchya'll later! ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Ah, that would be The Tubes, Oaks. Fee Waybill, and The Tubes. Interesting band! ------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Wynton Marsalis gives a loose definition of jazz, it's been used before in different forms to define what "jazz" is. 1) rooted in the blues 2) incorporates improvisation 3) has melodic and harmonic depth The feeling seems to be that jazz can and should include many more elements too, but these will inevitably appear in the mix. I'd add "it swings" to that list, too. Not just a pulse but a rhythm that ebbs and flows. I like a good, solid beat, but I also like variety. There are so many different forms and sounds, it would be impossible to fence it in, in fact it seems that historically jazz has grown by allowing people the opportunity to experiment and stretch. The improvisation point is a strong one, I think it moves the players towards personalizing the music. In essence, "recreating" from what's already been written. To do it well requires thought and committment to the moment. Music being what it is, certain parts of the vocabulary are going to become established and "definitive" for certain genres and forms that come out of different cultures. Jazz is rich with basic forms that I think give it the kind of flavor that A la Prochaine is talking about. Once a musician starts to move in to them, it can open the door to further development. (Steely Dan is a great example. Fagan and Becker both have done some great stuff. Their first album was full of high end rock and roll and they really developed a lot of stuff over the years.) When jazz gets slavish, by rote, it gets a little boring regardless of the instruments or beat behind it. It can still be fun, though, either way, if some of the basic elements are there. --------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hi Keynote! Welcome! Look forward to hearing from you! ------------------ Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....

Hey there! Thanks Hope! It's kangaroos, then! Thanks, that really is a blast from the past. There's a whole 'nother sub-genre...novelty tunes. "Purple People Eater" "Hello Mother, Hello Father" There's always been a place for those kinds of tunes and I'm glad they're back. Some of the rap things I run across strike me as really funny, too. Not the kill/die/i'm a bad mudda-fudda rap (I always feel like saying "ok, I GOT IT the first 1,000 times you said it. YOU'RE REALLY a BAD DUDE!") , but the sounds, the sing-song melodies. Snoop Dog...that' a whole laugh track right there and it's just the guy's nick. A la, you mention Celtic. Grand stuff. We have a lot of that around the house too. My wife's Irish on both sides of her family, so we got freckles on our potatoes round here. There's an NPR show done by a Fiona Ritchie you might like if you haven't ever heard of it. It's called "Thistle and Shamrock" and they deal with it, she plays all kinds of that music on her show. She puts out sampler CD's and stuff. We got one a couple years ago, killer stuff. I gotta dig that cd out. There's a tune on it with a lead guitarist playing that's out of this world. It's a really nice blend. Another one's kind of a fireside chant kind of thing, modern sounding. It sounds like, hard to describe, I oughta shoot you the cd. Drop me your email if you'd like a copy, I'll mail it to you. There's just so much here. Woo! I'm still stuck on Bobby Darin and Ted. I LOVE Bobby Darin. "Dream Lover", "Mack the Knife". That guy was talented, plus he hooked up with Marilyn Monroe if I remember right. Can't beat that. I'm pondering your question, Ted. Not sure where to go with it. I'll have to give it another day or two. Just checking in. One thing for sure - it's clear music means a lot to many of us and it's been a constant presence throughout our lives. Something strange that's started to happen to me is in my dreams. For a couple years, I'd dream at times about being someplace where I'd be playing or trying to, and there'd always be something goofy about it. The guitar wouldn't make any noise or the strings would be like rubber bands, or I'd have no pick. I'd be late. It was always something, and I could never remember the music that would be played when I'd wake up. About a year ago or so, that changed and when I'd have those kinds of dreams, I'd just play with the other people and I'd remember what the music sounded like. Go figure. Now it's more fun to have that dream. Well, gotta catch some z's. Ck, the thread is growing...growing... ------------------------- Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....