socks

My mistake, Twinky. I meant if for Open. Here I'm ripping Airport Security and can't click to save me life. Can it be moved? It's a short topic although I've been in vent mode. I've been figuring out who to send my thoughts to. I don't want to get into the airline/airport system as I don't know exactly what's at the other end. Maybe write a legislator, dunno. FAA? I hesitate to get on anyone's list. First issue to me is the overall consistency of the systems and standards. I know it's known that's a problem so it's not new by any means. But the way it's set up now it doesn't seem to guarantee that all airports and airlines will respond the same way to the same kinds of issues. Second is the airport itself - I think the security measures should apply to anyone entering the airport property, the buildings, check in, ticket counters. Basically if you walk in the doors for anything you're subject to a minimal amount of security review. That would support the entire effort. Why wait till you're going to your Gate? If you can get to the line to go through the flight scanners with something dangerous you're already a risk. Third would be to establish expectations so everyone knows up front what's up - I think the overall passenger attitude is to get through the whole thing as fast as possible and that it shouldn't take a long time. I would prefer that it take more time to be honest - an additional 10 minutes per person would be about right - screen every single person going through every single time - who are you, where are you going, what are you doing and why. When bags and coats and stuff are scanned allow for time at that point for finding out exactly what is going through. That would be a more sensible approach to security IMO if we're going to do it. I went through with a carry on electric guitar several years ago - had it in a travel bag, it had onboard electronics that require a 9 volt battery and a vibrato mechanism that has a rod that comes in and out. I took the 9 volt out, and the rod and had them separate. I expected it to be scanned separately and it was. But the person doing it didn't know exactly what they were looking for and wanted to know what the battery was for. I explained. They had to get another person to look at it who knew what it all was but he didn't actually look inside the guitar cavities to see what was in them. I expected them to want to look it over and I was prepared for that but they didn't. The guy just said oh yeah, I get it and passed me through. This was on a flight to Los Angeles - going and coming, same thing. I know a few guitarists must come and go out of SFO and LAX with guitars so it surprised me that they didn't have a process for them. I don't think it can be assumed that because a guitar looks like a guitar that that's all it is so I'd feel better going through more review than less. Between what's done and what I'm asked and what isn't done and not asked is a big gap IMO. Anyhoo...

The military pin thing is downright scarey Kit. I really started giving this some thought this year when I was ahead of a guy on crutches - this is the honest to God truth. He was using metal crutches and had a pretty serious looking cast on his lower leg. I could hear him talking behind me and he'd looked online and called the airlines and wasn't able to get a human on the line. He'd gone to the airline desk and they'd told him to go through the normal line and they'd know how to handle it. Now he was there in line still asking and was going to hold up the entire line which he really didn't want to do. First they asked him while he was in line - and this is the truth - , could he remove the metal cast....he said no. They asked him if he could walk without the crutches, he said no. They told him he had to be able to walk through the scanner or the alternative was to go through the full body scan and exam and they'd have to examine his crutches and cast. They didn't offer him a wheel chair, although I suppose if he'd asked for one they'd have gotten it. He told them he could walk, he was fine but couldn't they just look at his cast and crutches and see that when he went through the scanner what they were. They said no. He ended up heading off to the Room where he was going to have to go through an entire shake down and examination. I heard him saying "I wish I'd been told this at the airline desk" and they were telling him something about the airline desk not being the authority on it. Catch - 22 - a -go go. Okay - I get that there has to be a process but it was more like a guessing game or 10 Questions or something. It was the fact they didn't appear to have a process for that in place that everyone involved knew and that they could immediately initiate that was weird - it didn't make me confident they knew what they were doing. They made it seem like he was doing something wrong and by not knowing what to do and asking questions he was suspect. The entire tone of both people that dealt with him was obnoxious for want of a better word. Most of the time it's a breeze, I know what to do, do it and skeedle on to my gate. But if I stop and consider what's being done I feel less secure. Why? Because the airport is filled with 1000's of people, well 100's anyway, that are all over the external areas of the airport from drop off to the entries to the lines in front. Nothing's secured about those areas. Security appears to be reactionary - act on the last perceived or real threat. And not to be unkind but if I was to be completely honest many of the check point personnel don't act either mature or intelligent. In Houston couple years ago a group of them held up a security line arguing about who was getting the next break - this is the honest truth - they had to stop the line while a supervisor was called to sort it out for them. It was like the 5 Stooges Go To The Airport. The level of discussion wasn't professional to say the least, it was like listening to cranky kids. I understand that being a problem but if they don't have the break schedule worked out what else isn't?

Meant for Open...Scusami! As the year comes to a close I ponder the times I've flown this year, in and out of several airports including several times out of the same ones. Airport security is a misleading term IMO. Security should imply predictability and when it comes to checking in and through to get on a plane it's anything but. As for feeling secure only if standing around with a room full of strangers getting undressed is your thing. Recently my wife and I went through together and she went through the scanner with her belt on. Forgot to take it off. Oops. She walked right though and realized later at the Gate she hadn't taken it off. Apparently the metal in her belt buckle wasn't thick enough to set off the alert and it's density of metal that does that. Which got me to thinking - why are we expected to take off our belts anyway? What threat do they pose? None actually, it's simply that a buckle can be large enough to have something in it. But apparently something very small and dangerous has a pretty good chance of getting through. Other than that a belt is a belt. And since many of the passengers start belting down drinks once they're in the air it seems a little....useless, all that effort around belts. Water? Dangerous. Bad. Water can take an entire plane crew down with a single gulp. After you're through Security though no problem, Secured Safe Water is sold at prices that would scare a Sheik. Sometimes I take my ring off, sometimes not. I did that flight and placed it in my....shoe. BEEEEEP! Since shoes can carry bombs anything in a shoe is cause for a secondary level of review which I wasn't aware of. In the sole, hmmm, okay I get it, most of us don't have secret compartments in our shoes for chapstick. The personnel could see what it was, but procedures are procedures. Brief stop at the side area and I was on my way. Without any explanation of what they were looking for or had found. The person wiped my shoes with a little dabber thing though which seemed friendly if not a little...odd. I figured it out for myself since questions aren't allowed and if you ask more than once you can be identified as a Problem, not a good idea these days. . Which got me to thinking - ear rings, nose rings, assorted pins and pokers throughout one's body go right through, as long as they're small. I guess if you had a hammer inserted through your butt cheek that would set it off but something like a spanky new pin, no problem. Tip - take whatever you have in your pockets and put them in your coat pocket - take a coat of some type for that purpose. It goes right through, money, wallet, guitar picks, combs. Saves time of having all that loose stuff in the bin to gather up on the other side. But the overall impression I've gotten is that from flight to flight this can change. I saw a guy getting bullied by one of the personnel for not pushing his bag and bins through - "Come on, they're not going to go through on their own!" He was pretty obnoxious. I got the same routine for not moving fast enough, despite the fact that the conveyor was stopped more than it was started and when people pushed stuff through it got stuck and they were ripped for not waiting. Bad moods? That one particular flight was pretty weird all around though. Which got me to thinking - some of these people at the Security Check Ins seem intelligent enough but some....not so much. And a lot of what they're doing is making value judgments of what they see and hear. Like my back pack -always take it. Everything loose goes in plastic bags for easy access. I've taken cameras, cables, chargers, electronic e-cigarettes with batteries and atomizers, all manner of gee gaws and stuff. I've probably got enough voltage to start a decent camp fire in it and it all looks like a gnarly mess on their monitors which translate mass into color codes - yet it always - always goes through. And that got me to thinking - purses. Everything I don't carry is in my wife's plus all of her stuff. They always - always go through and at the speed of scan. No one ever even looks or opens them up to see what all the wires, batteries and electronics are or what they do. But I got pulled over in one security check in because I took a bottle of shampoo - that was in a plastic bag - but was 2 ounces over the allowed amount - that day. Never ever been stopped for that bottle which I've taken as part of my Emergency supplies-in-case-the-airline-donates-my-bags-to-charity plan - never a problem, it's a size that's compliant with regulations and always in it's own little plastic bag. But it got zinged that time. Not since though, just that once. I don't want more intrusion but it's got me to thinking - what do they think they're actually accomplishing? I'm familiar with all of the information related to the process, read it. I respect the need to process passengers and they're stuff, I want a secure environment. I'm still moderately confused. Between the dangerous belt buckles and the threatening shampoo I have started to wonder - what are we really doing? We live in the "i" society, where everyone has their i this and i that and will protect the sanctity of our privacy with guns bought at the nearest Wal Mart but then - we will get undressed in public with total strangers and be ready to explain just why we need so much shampoo. To be secure........

1) The Roman Catholic Church. Raised RC, educated for 10 years in the Parochial school system. I know West Coast RCism. I understood why VPW didn't "like" the RC religion. I didn't either. Still don't. I don't hate them though. I don't think he did either, he didn't really have a background in Catholicism that I saw. Maybe he really just took exception to all that coin going there way that could have been going to The Way. I do think they should be shut down as a tax exempt organization while they're under investigation for the many claims of abuse and deceit that have been brought forward especially since there seems to be such an organized network of deceit, hindrance and obfuscation. So should the Way Nash, except that there don't seem to be any current suits or legal actions pending against them. That has nothing to do with VPW though. Or maybe it does - either way, many people feel that way. I can't help it that they suck so badly but I don't like it.

Fundamentals, baby, it's all fun da mentals. Y'know? <br> <br> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GyXDbhZv6sg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Saw them about a week ago in a club...now we got Minks! <br> <br> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dRbPCfmClxs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <br><br> Don't want your money honey, don't need your car, I'm doing alright, I'm doing alright so far. <br><br> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PxNnEEK6uG0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Top 10 Dumb Reasons: 1. That poor soul who fell asleep during a VPW teaching and got the boot-ski, and quick. That was back in the 70's, forget the year. VPW was so distraught by seeing this guy nodding out that he was in tears with his son Don W. I was surprised he didn't see the rest of us, it wasn't that uncommon- "Don...they don't care...they don't care!...." It was weird. I think this turned out to be during a period when he was dealing with the illnesses that would ultimately claim his life, can't swear to it but I think he was in pain that night as it was later explained. If he'd managed all of that better he wouldn't have been doing what he was doing. 2. There were a couple others later who got booted for nodding out during a life changing teaching I heard over the years - lots of "copy cat" revelation went around It seemed like it was almost a right of passage for some of the hardy, stalwart "men of God" whose very footsteps caused the devil to shake in fear. But who couldn't deal with the fact that their verbal screeds could put a meth addict to sleep. 3. Limb boss's for goofing off and screwing around with women in their state - there was a guy whose reign of terror went on right under VPW's nose, who just couldn't bring himself to believe what he was hearing. Until it finally got through to LCM who, believe it not, finally took action and came down and they traveled around the state for special Corps meetings so they could explain how this guy had done "so much to move the Word" and needed to "take time" with his family. Boo hoo hoo. It was the biggest pile of b--sh-t most of us had heard to that point. Not all of us knew the extent of what had been going on but many were victims of this guy's insanity and had communicated to both VPW and LCM their concerns. Well, I had with VPW. That didn't get me any brownie points that year and actually ws part of what to a "demotion", which was fine with me - then when my replacement imploded the Limb Boss guy had the unmitigated gall to ask me to "show him the ropes and help him get it together". Apparently the poor soul didn't know how to properly do what he was told - I thought it was hilarious that I was asked out of desperation to step in. I had other things to do. Come to think of it he didn't actually get "kicked out" totally - probably would have been the best thing fro him though. 4. I'm sure there's more.....within these kinds of stories there are threads of realities that represent the demise of the Way Nash.

Me neither, Roy. Something about beer disagrees with my digestion. Never sat well in there. Minor point - I don't believe Zeena Lavey is the active "head" of the TOS FNM, not at this time anyway. Was though but that goes back a few years. Don't know the level of active involvement, they're a closed corporation kinda deal outside of the public facing material which is more educational, informational than exploratory. Have known a participant, at one time, and while there is an organizational structure it's difficult to get one to articulate it, maybe due to the nature of Setian (Sethian) philosophical tenets. To come into one's own "divinity" is one way of describing the basic idea, to "come into being". "Xeper", which sounds like Khe-fer, which has always sounded like a sneeze to me. I posted to that topic, Xeper, a few years ago on a thread, forget what it was, I was exchanging some posts with sunesis on something. I think I remember another poster who had some long dissertations here in Doctrinal forum that referenced Egyptian mythologies and reference Horus and some other stuff (and Set figures into those mythologies), comparing it to something The Way taught, which seemed like a stretch to me but it wasn't a lengthy discussion. Self realization in a time and space of one's own creation through "remanifesation" I think it's termed. There's a lot of what I'd call hooey that goes along with it but comparing it to say the ritual observances and disciplines of the Roman Catholic religion it all might not seem so far apart. To be a "god"...I dunno, I won't pretend to speak for the actual TOS or the kinds of outcomes a member would pursue, (and they're a group I want nothing to do with) so having said that it seems that one pursuant might put it that way, another, no. I don't think it would include a sense of identity with the Jehovah, the God of the Bible or Jesus Christ as the son of God, which I think is the context Roy's speaking from. I don't think the religious view of "hell" would be included in the TOS's world either. But there's a lot I don't know about it, much much more than what I do. Maybe you could give some more detail what you're thinking there.

I shot the turkey, But I did not shoot no deputy, oh no.

So a man walks into a bar and the bartender says "What'll it be?" Man says "Xeper!" Bartender says, "Gesundheit! So, what'll it be?" Sorry.

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Once had a guy defending on this topic and he said "Well, if we had to wait for someone to be perfect we'd never get anything done dernit!" Bingo. Sermon over. Pass the hat Padre, all we need now is beer money. People don't want to leave well enough alone, be happy with what they've got and be willing to earn what they don't have and move the Living Word of Christ on their own get up and go, people like VPW (and he's not alone in this respect by any means) choose to build a profit earning Jesus-Inc. business to provide the engine for their "ministry", basically financing their own dream machines and getting a livelihood to boot. But it turns into a gnarly birds nest of greed and creed - look at the Weirwille heritage - not a one of them has a right to their family farm, property or anything on it. It's "God's" now - all for the good of the "ministry" that continues to provide museum space for his legacy. Which is great because WE ALL KNOW HOW MUCH GOD REALLY NEEDS FARMLAND IN OHIO. Sad, tragic, weird, bizarre. The most important things have already been done (by God in Christ) - it's in man's self-made maniacal machinations to build a better god-trap that he's always catching his tail. Period.

Sure, got lots of hot air like that. One thing that I'd add too - in regards to Kris's comments about VPW's mindset............ I dunno 'bout that, if that's true. She may have felt he really thought it was okay... And if he did that makes him hmmmmmmmmmm....pretty much disqualified from the teacher's chair or any role of responsibility in the bawdee of Kee-riste. You can't have somebody doing that to God's people - But I kinda think he talked himself into it. I really don't believe, and this is just IMO, that he was really clean in his mind about it. I don't think he could be- He had a wife and children, family and close intimate work associates like Ermal O, and others. He would have had to have complete agreement and acceptance from his closest family and friends on this in order to not have the guilt and condemnation from the constantly embedded in his life. Obviously he didn't because it was kept "under the covers" (little pervy humor there, sorry) He kept it secret - or so he thought, I guess if you stumbled in on him by accident one day and went YIIIIKES! and had to discuss it with him later, it might not be so secret. Or if others talked about it amongst themselves to leverage position and stature in the company, that kind of thing. But he kept it secret and I don't believe from what I know and have read that - All of his family member and closest associates all knew what he was doing, what he thought about it and that they were not all in 100% support and agreement with him and for him. Different levels of knowledge, some none, some all. Soooooo....yeah. Or no. I don't think he was pure hearted about it if I can use that word in this context. Not at all, otherwise he would have been open about it. Instead of lying. He reduced the lying later in life by not handling topics like marriage fidelity and adultery up close and personal and b s'd about their "real" meaning. Sorta like, "don't ask cauze I ain't telling but if i do I got real yarn for you". HE KNEW he couldn't face those topics publicly, so he didn't. Thus IMO - sure he knew he was wrong, that's why he steered clear of the topic as much as possible. Just sayin'.

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This is really several different kinds of discussions and one of them IS biblical and doctrinal. "Adultery" in the bible is fairly simple and straightforward - having a commitment made to one spouse that commits a primary relationship to that one spouse and having the primary relationship with another who is not your spouse. Sex is included in the primary relationship definition. Jesus clarified this in Matthew 5: 27 and 28. Read it. It handles the O.T. commandments of "coveting" a "neighbor's wife" and committing adultery. He states clearly - to lust after another woman "already" commits adultery in the heart. It involves wanting something that's forbidden, that's off limits. What's off limits? The coveting that leads to adultery. Jesus is speaking to a specific context here. VPW was married, by all standards, legal, biblical, cultural. His side of this discourse isn't up for debate. Whether a woman was single or married, he was married. To produce a situation where the physical desire for him or another towards him was the outcome is wrong, per Jesus. It doesn't allow for a situation where the married man is free to have sexual relations with an unmarried woman. That's handled by the definition of "fornication". The N.T. epistles bring that up from time to time. The basic biblical scenario that's painted in the N.T. is for men and women "not to burn" with desire - people are people, human. Desire is part of the human makeup. Marriage is the correct context for sex. Men who choose to be leaders in the church are instructed to be the "husbands of one wife". Have a relationship with one woman and maintain that one. Or just apply the old saying - don't s--t where you eat....don't screw where you work. Any idiot figures that out whether they aspire to a higher ideal or not. The O.T. records of people like David who had multiple "wives" don't mean they were free to have sex with as many women as they wanted - just "marry" them and have at it. I'm surprised that's even still up for discussion. A little history is needed but I'm not going to teach it here. If anyone wants to be ignorant so be it but I promise you you're going to look pretty dammed stupid trying to pawn that off on anyone who's bothered to read more than what the Way published on that topic. Another good point to remember in this topic is that within what we read in the Epistles is a chronology of sorts - there's (at minimum) 4 generations in the N. T. Bible we read today - Jesus and His followers are the 1st - John, Peter, Mary, all of them. The 2nd includes Paul, Luke, Mark and others we read about in Acts, etc. The 3rd would be those that grew out of Jerusalem, and then on from there are those that are represented by the people the epistles are written to. We can assume that many if not most of these people had never seen or heard Jesus themselves and most may have never heard of Him at all, certainly not in the way they were hearing it all then (even counting those in Jerusalem that heard Peter on Pentecost - we don't know exactly what that produced across the geography of the middle East). So they were much like us in that respect, different in time and space but similar in this regard. It's obvious but it makes a difference to me to realize that these "letters" were already addressing a group removed from the actual "time of Christ" by 3, 4, 5 generations. This is an important context to remember I think because they really give a view into what the earliest churches were like, what they were going through, the challenges they encountered. We can see this in Corinth, for instance and what's written to them, "Corinthians" 1 and 2 are very granular in the issues they address in parts. Point being that the behavior and conduct of the people was being addressed, how they treated each other and carried out their business now that they were getting some miles under them, what worked, what didn't work. And how their leaders - the elders amongst them who helped in their oversight and well being - were to act. It's clear, there's no fudge room IMO. The fact that we may try to fudge illustrates that we choose to ignore what the bible clearly says and instructs and instead try to get an acquittal based on a loop hole in an interpretation of some past example that we present in the hopes that our audience doesn't really know the facts - the actual truth of the facts - and can be bamboozled. The fact that VPW really thought he was okay in this category indicates how far afield he was. Like a guy who says "I thought it was okay to go through that red light because I didn't see anyone coming from the other way - so it was okay". The light's red. No one's coming. You stop till it's green. Period. "But there was an emergency! I had to go!" Fine, you still broke the law. Here's a ticket. Don't let it happen again under normal circumstances. Men have desires? Emergencies? Don't get me started on the balls of yarn VPW rolled about being "disciplined", about having one's mind "under control", about being "like steel" when it came to The Word, The Word - nothing but the Word!!" C'mon....anyone who lived through these years and abided by the constraints and is better off for it today knows - he was full of it. Canned, spammed and clammed - full of it thinking all this was "okay". Okay as long as no one took his butt out to the ol' "Back 40" and danced with a 2 X 4.

Sweet.....<br><br> Monday Morning, back on the job...<br><br> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rF_Ul9o3PvE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I'm reminded for some reason that - snooze alert! Right outta the gate God establishes a level of severity - eat of all the trees but not this one - do that and it's all over. I would contend that the "tree" was choice - not that choice is wrong, the capacity to choose is inherent in man from the start and is God given. Rather that using that faculty to choose "evil" will bring about destruction. Choose correctly, don't exercise the capacity to choose wrongly. What their choices were is unclear but it's clear that it was important that they have the ability to think for themselves and that it's important to God that man choose right, do right and not "know" evil by choosing it. Oversimplified? Not if the Genesis record is taken literally - if man chooses evil, wrong, he goes against his instructions. Told that he "won't die" but rather will become like God Himself, he takes that route. Aware that he's done wrong he tries to conceal it. When we do wrong we try to conceal it, ourselves, we try to hide it. "Lock box". Nothing is hidden that can not be known, that will not be known if only to God. With God the secrets of the heart are open, clear. We don't know all and contrary to some interpretations of the bible I don't believe that we will know all about everyone and everything at some point in the future. But the clarity that God sees with can be shared now in part. VPW hid much of his life from others, made certain things known to only a select few. He offered levels of spirituality, of maturity and in so doing offered levels of wrong, of lack of maturity yet all the while insisting that there was no such reality "spiritually". Insisted that to be true and "salted" secrets had to be kept. He wasn't hiding anything from anyone because as we learn in life when it's held up to the light, the shadows that are cast reveal the pockets, the holes, the barricades we put up. We don't make the rules, the rewards or the punishment, none of this is our idea or self-creation. Looked at from the ground level we see what we see. It isn't till we look with "new eyes" and see what isn't there that we will see the variances and that requires a set of standards with which to see them, free of judgment that requires us to decide right or wrong but informed by the standards of God who sets those standards. VPW took exception to the idea that one sin required a greater retribution than another - that Christ's sacrifice wasn't complete or whole. On that I would agree, if redemption isn't complete it's not redemption, it's a deal under negotiation. That's all done. However the fulfillment of that - "seated in the heavenlies" - isn't completed yet. To accept Christ's finished work requires a response to sin - "repentance". That's a plain fact of scripture. If we jump start our redemption to create a mind set that we're already forgiven we bypass repentance and I would also contend that the bible teaches that as a continuous process throughout our lives - the very lives we continue to live after accepting Christ. Life is more than the time that measures it. We are repentant for the choices we make that are wrong, for the entire life we live, every day and year of it - that required the redemption to begin with and in so doing "follow Christ", staying close to the Redeemer. I'm not the standard. I'll get what's coming to me in the end. We all will and if that's only x odd years and dust, so be it. If there's more and I believe there is I trust that the bad will be peeled away and what's left will be what little I have to bring to the party, clothed with a New Life. I agree with the New Testament writer who put down that in me, there is nothing good, but if the seed of righteousness can grow within I may end up better going out than coming in. But for my part, we're all a wad of carbon with a little spit mixed in. Some of us do look better than others but that won't last long from what I've seen.

"dead in trespasses and sins to seated in the heavenlies" The Word he taught isn't negated by his actions, his like everyone else's are what they are be they good or bad. It's that Word that needs to be understood clearly. VPW missed the boat on some very important stuff. In order to get to a fully forgiven status through a redemption accomplished by Christ's sacrifice he made all sin - both the condition of man separated from God AND the things that condition produces - the same. "Sin" is sin is sin is sin, to him they were all the same, no better or worse, no gradients, no one better or worse than another in "God's eyes". Besides being just plain wrong that creates a sonic disconnect so loud it drowns out all biblical logic and reason to the point it turns Christians who hold to it into belly-button staring addicts of feel good grace. After a few 1,000 hits of the stuff they blur off into a glassy brained state of "whatever", losing their grounding to the moral and ethical realities of that "heavenly seat" they have. It's all one big wash of golden na-na land. Yet - as is obvious in many ex-Wayfers - they're the first to get the most adamant and ignited over perceived slights to their own right to the pearly gates of their PFAL given palace of What'sRightInThisGodForsakenWorld. Knock the dust of that cap and hit the book and read it for real, john. Yeah, that's a little insulting but only because I think you know in your Real Brain that much of what you write here is conflicted. I don't have a problem with most of what VPW taught and I'm of the mind that his propensity for being a prideful bag of hot air much of the time didn't hold him down as much as it would have a lot of people. But the sand in the machinery of life is less fear and more the bull-s--t we feed ourselves if make our own present more palatable by waiting for that Big Ol' Heavenly Seat in the Sky that's coming to us. Oh, this world is not my home, I'm just a passin' through.....but y'know, if we take care of the one that's coming like the one we've got now....

It's called 'Hard candy'(2006). aw, c'mon johnube 1. It's a movie. 2. It's not unclear? ......... at the end he confesses that he only "watched" the murder but didn't "do" it (which kind of redefines what it means to "do" something I guess). 3. It's a movie. 4. It's not a movie about "cleaning up the community", it's a movie about personal revenge over the death of a friend. 5. Did I say - it's a movie". No one's comparing that to VPW or any of this topic's points. I'm confused why you'd connect the two. Actually though your comments do remind me in an abstract way of VPW's personal version of "grace" when it was convenient for himself and his allies and perhaps the guy in the movie could be compared to Geer. 'Member, VPW's version of "saved by grace" meant that: He didn't actually "do" anything wrong when he did something wrong.......... There's no wrong in the Land of Forever Forgiven! He applied this selectively though - he himself being the imperfect person he was, chose to punish some but not others, for any range of trespasses, from small to large. He knew something was 'wrong' enough to take action against it but couldn't bring himself to apply that evenly and fairly. Fall asleep during one of his teachings - on a bad night, you get kicked out of the meeting, the Corps, the property Screw another person's wife - aww c'mon haw-ney....yoi're not still mad about that are you?

Yeah, she may be a blind bull in a china shop but she must realize that The Way dodged a HUGE bullet after the lawsuits, the biggie, the Allen case. Dodged may not be the right word - they were able to recover and continue and while it hasn't been the same since they haven't been shut down. She knows the old guard is still out there, all those who have left from the "old days". The Way Inc. could never hold up under any kind of open, public and consistent inquiry. I'm sure she knows the limits of her own and others capacity. So, yeah - burn candles and pretend light bulbs aren't what everyone else is using. Having lived there for several years myself I can't IMAGINE what it must be like there and don't like to for very long. Just can't imagine how those people endure and survive in that kind of environment. They must be tripping over the ghosts of the past. Or maybe having tea and toast with them....oh, how those tables must be sticky with filth after all these years.....

Oh yeah. Classic!

On the bridge. <br> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wu3vkHwxEaE?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"...there are people who are saying the Catholic Church should be shut down. But this particular website isn't centered around the Catholic church, its centered around TWI." True. The internet has provided many, many outlets and portals for R C's to open up publicly about their religion and their own experience and faith that would be difficult if not impossible in person-one-to-one with others. I believe the RC church will "never" change from the inside, from the Vatican. It may grind to a halt in some distant future but it will be the same organization it is today, more or less. Likewise with the Way - it's a much different group and organization than it was 40 years ago but it appears it has the same underlying business case, so while the names may change, polices be reworded, lawsuits get settled out of court - not much at the core system level is probably going to change much. However - RC or TWI - they should be required to be in compliance with the laws of the lands they function in and be acceptable to the societies they serve. Compliance is a must, acceptance is a moving target, public opinion will shift but it's is a factor. I wouldn't shut the RC's down, point blank but I am a proponent of a moratorium on their church business activity in the U.S, with the exception of religious services and educational activities, while the Federal Government re investigates the church's practices and activities. If the Fed's can investigate baseball players and their use of *gasp!* performance enhancing drugs and thus tearing at the fabric of the American Way of Life, they should be able to step in and start some formal actions against a group that collects tax-free money and uses it in part to finance what appears to be a well organized and implemented network for sexual abuse. There are obviously some bad RC Apples in their leadership structure - root 'em out and let's help that church become a better safer place for it's members. Shoot - Vatican money could pay for it, just divert all that $ from gifts and donations and taxes not paid and put it towards improvements. Just makes sense, IMO. If they won't do it and if they won't provide public documentation and regular audits to demonstrate they're fixing the problem and not hiding sex offenders and criminals - shut 'em down. The Vatican's the sovereign territory of the Holy See, it's a monarchy. Declare war. We do it over all sorts of things all over the globe - if their Pope-King continues to flip us and everyone else off - hey. Can you say "Saddam Hussein?".................how about "Khada-aaafy?". Sound crazy? If it were my children suffering the effects of that perverted system it would sound pretty reasonable. Shut the m-fkers down. Now. In TWI's case it's easy to see they're staying below the radar these days, waaaaay low.The same goes for them IMO. They've settled and kept the lawsuits on the down low and - it would appear - recurrences are either down or non-existent. They may be weird, jerks and a waste of time but if they keep within the laws of the land, comply with all local, state and federal regulations and laws that apply to them and don't p-o their local community too much, they have a right to exist. So do the R C's. In either case criminal activity shouldn't be tolerated. Of course.

The outrage over the RC's? Where does one start? Remember - after the current Pope took orifice, he was soon met with the media wanting to know how he stood on all of the cases that were brewing, notably in the U.S. I distinctly recall his obfuscation and dodging on the topic, noting that the bulk of the inquiries were coming from the American media regarding American situations, and that he saw it as an American problem, not a global issue. He knew at that time of some of the situations that had been handled over many years due to his Vatican role - he just lied through his teeth. Point blank, bald faced shameless diversion away from the issue and rather than take action on it he indicated that it was a localized problem that needed to be handled case by case, not a world wide problem - which is what the world now knows it was and likely still is, as many other countries have stepped up and had to deal with it when it finally boiled over - which it was always destined to do, it was just a matter of time. So the Popester - just like those guilty clergy scum - is a criminal in my opinion and should be testifying and providing depositions as to what he knew, when he knew it, what he did and didn't do and say and what his knowledge has been. Same goes for the rest of that herd of swine. They could demote all of the do-gooding priests, nuns, biships, cardinals - the whole bunch - to rank and file citizen tomorrow and those who do good would continue to do so. Take away their titles and let them go back to work the same as any one else who chooses to dedicate their lives to an ideal and their beliefs. Shouldn't change a thing, at all, if they're for real. What VPW did is heinous. They're all in the same boat as far as I'm concerned and I by no means discount his entire life and career anymore than I discount the rest of Roman Catholicism - but that's a nasty packed boat he's in, dead or alive, and they can take it 20 miles offshore and pull the plug on it as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a rats asz how much Bible he taught.

ok. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>