Rocky

In case anyone would like further insight on forgiveness, I suspect the late Desmond Tutu knew something about it. The Book of Forgiving: The Fourfold Path for Healing Ourselves and Our World

For the record, I wasn't implying anything about your take on the groups. I believed and believe you. I was only putting my point/understanding in the context of my experience. Clearly those spin off groups, IMO, are parasites.

I recognized his voice right away. ROA 72 was 51 years ago. Amazing to consider. Salient to me in the first minute of Craley's soliloquy was his statement that news people would be there to try to understand the phenomenon which was TWI at that time. Of course, that was only the beginning of a much longer journey to understand said phenomenon. I'm thankful we have a MUCH better grasp of the issue/subject today than anyone in society was able to figure out (without becoming engrossed/engulfed) in the high demand subculture at the time. Not that we have a full understanding of it even still...

They may or may not require victims to forgive. I don't have any experience with any of them to be able to say one way or another. However, I believe they do knowingly suppress that particular information... and do so for the purpose of their particular offshoot not having to deal with the actual problem. That would require thoughtfulness, mindfulness, introspection and difficult discussions. Refusing to do so, IMO, makes each group enablers of emotional dysfunction. I reflect back to what our good friend Skyrider wrote about GSC being to first (and perhaps the only) place where the truth has been declared. Doing so allows individuals to have a face off with the evil which has harmed them emotionally and perhaps in other ways. Some readers here might recall that I have mentioned the recent movie produced by Frances McDormand and directed by Sarah Polley, Women Talking. AARP reported months ago Amazon would make the movie available for Prime members to view the movie for no additional cost. However, I put it on my watchlist at the time and it was, for IMO too long, available to watch with a trial free membership to some other channel/network by way of Amazon Prime. Long story short, when I looked last night, that qualifier had been dropped and NOW it IS available for no extra charge (or other contingency) for Prime members to watch. So, I watched it. I LOVED IT. It's not an action movie. But it does poignantly and artistically portray a necessary story about democratic (not partisan) group decision making. I love how the movie explores the internal workings of minds by way of words and body language (non-verbal communication). Of course, that's a dimension lacking with online forums. We can't look into each other's eyes, or adequately read the tone of each others' voices. Anyway, one of the main themes of the women's deliberations was forgiveness. You might love the movie too.

Great comment. Yet, is it OUR place to determine who is right? Well, that's obviously a VERY broad question. My current view is the responsibility for said determination is between every human and her/his maker.

Meh. I understand the words better but still find this group to be somewhat more inauthentic than the lovely people from Gabon. Bless their hearts.

To recap: The topic is NOT Victor Wierwille's teachings. It's not Loy C Martindale's teaching. What did Gandhi say? The topic is THIS

Are you asking STL for clarification???? Are you sure those are the only two possibilities?

So, I take it you're asking for clarification? I apologize if I implied that was something Dr Tyson suggested. I'm thankful you viewed the video multiple times. Not everything I've learned over the 37 years since I left Victor Wierwille's cult could possibly be included in or explained by even the most brilliant American astrophysicist.

Excellent reflection and introspection. Hmmmm... it's been 37 yrs so far for me... and I didn't get pushed as far as those kids had been.

No, I do not still buy that one. However, your post raises different questions. Reasonably so. I would hope TWIers who still believe could muster the courage and rational reasoning to respond. As to relying on con-men and hoaxsters to get the job done, it seems to suggest a negative response to you musing about whether "there is a Real God." Human history suggests many cultures believed in a god or gods. I would ask how and why there's so much variation throughout the millennia. Neal de Grasse Tyson has suggested answers to such questions. He's a smart and very thoughtful guy (scientist)

Ok then!

"He wrote more about this that I plan to use in a longer article, but for now, in light of recent news stories about the power of ISIS to brainwash vulnerable and disaffected young men and women around the world, I felt it was important to address this subject. It is real. It happened to me." I wish I could say this was an isolated phenomenon in the world, and in the US, today. It IS real. I believe it happened to me too. This youtube video shed a bit of light for me. I saw myself as this psychologist describes as both the child having been emotionally neglected but even more tragically, as the parent who did the same thing to my child. I believe your experience, Penworks, is related or parallel to mine.

Has anyone examined their own contributions to threads like this? Do you think this kind of thing might have factored into the person who posted on reddit figuring s/he might not be able to find the answers sought for his/her early life in TWI? Just sayin'

I wish each of you a lifetime of happiness, joy, and healing.

Dude, I don't and wouldn't speak for cman, but really even if he was criticizing you, blow it off. In the grand scheme of things/life, it doesn't matter whether anyone here ever agrees with us or not.

This person posted: Looking for former members of The Way International (2005-2015) Support Request Hi all. I realize this may be a long shot and if anyone thinks this would be better off in a different subreddit please let me know. I’m looking for information about TWI during these years or former members to connect with. I’ve browsed GreaseSpot Cafe and while I’ve only scratched the surface there, the community doesn’t seem to be what it used to be. So here I am. Some extra info: I’m 23 currently. I lived at both Headquarters and at Camp Gunnison for several years. My parents were active members since around 2005 and served in The Way Corps. In 2010, TWI relocated us out of Camp Gunnison and although we were living off of the compound at this point, we were still involved in the ministry and hosted biweekly fellowships in our home. Because of family matters in the years to come, I’d say around 2014 my parents lessened their involvement with The Way. Even still, they still believed in the organization, tithed, attended local fellowships, etc. And that’s how things are currently. Around 2015 I started to question everything. Christianity. The things I was taught to believe. How I grew up. Everything. All that to say, it’s been some time since I had my suspicions about The Way. But this year… this year I’ve had the urge to do get answers my parents won’t give me. To do some digging, research, and to hopefully heal. Again, I’m not sure if this is the right place to reach out or not but if anyone has any information they can give me or sites/forums for me to look into, please send it my way. Thank you. **** I'm not sure what this person could or would expect of GSC. However, my recommendation is to post some questions here (at GSC, not necessarily just this thread) as broadly or specifically as s/he would like. Hopefully people with related experience/insight will answer.

Thanks for the link, Charlene. I resist putting a label on myself, at least in terms of religious (or non) leanings. But I totally relate to this paragraph from your post on the link you provided above. Well, except for the yoga part. But I do have a favorite local gym/fitness center where I like to work out. These days, I just try to enjoy the eclectic nature of my interests, spend time with friends and family, and soak up contemplative moments practicing a little yoga and meditation, and walking on the beach. And writing. When I think about this stage of my life, I can’t help but recall one of my favorite quotes. It is advice Shakespeare’s character, Polonius, a philosopher, gives his son as he leaves home, “This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.” (Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78-82).

I realize GSC doesn't condemn those who no longer believe in God. But I figure there are still followers of Wierwille's ministry who might benefit from this (probably quite salient) reflection.

Same here. Which is probably why it didn't matter much to me what the lyrics were, I just enjoyed the video.

Oh well...

Speaking of free will, this video shares some insight on why and how brands influence our choices.

Israeli historian (his nationality, not the focus of his research) Yuval Noah Harari, apparently in his book Homo Deus, posits the notion of collective imagination. My current understanding of Victor Wierwille's ministry and organization approaches it as a very definite collective imagination which many of us embraced FOR A TIME. Based on the book 'Homo Deus' by Yuval Noah Harari (also author of Sapiens), this video explores the potential futures of humanity through the rise of humanism, the crisis of liberalism, and the emergence of god-like beings and dataism. Key topics covered include: How humanism replaced religion in modern society The flaws underlying liberal values like free will and the self Scenarios where AI renders many humans economically useless The prospect of a small elite upgrading to become god-like superhumans Dataism as a new techno-religion valuing information flow Reflections on finding meaning in life and imagination as our superpower Watch this video to understand the historical patterns shaping our possible futures and how we can prepare for the challenges ahead. https://youtu.be/Ucewn8J5fJA?si=rDqrY9U2RUIZXgUn How close are we to [becoming?] Homo Deus?

Could it also/rather have been Buck Dopp's close in that review, Undertow is a lively story and a cautionary tale for the youth who want to search for truth and then save the world. They may end up sacrificing their time, energy and money in the process. The money can be replaced, but the time is gone forever. What glitters isn’t always gold and as Edge discovers, the Word of God may not really be the true Word of God and therefore not the Will of God either.