Rocky

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. I was giving Mike the benefit of the doubt. ;)

You may mean well, but that's a misuse of the idiom. In PFLAP, Dictor made a point of illustrating the distinction of whether the label was deceptive. The idiom "not judging a book by its cover" supposes the label is correct (accurate as far as it goes) but may not provide a good way to assess the quality of the material inside.

I think you both are correct. Dictor wanted to project a credible (intellectual) persona... but he only tolerated anti-intellectuals among his followers. Once anyone developed a sense of cognitive dissonance and said so out loud, he banished them.

What if? Heck that's what the American economic model is all about! #MAGA, as they say. OOPS...

Indeed, it is. :)

OS and Chockfull, reading over the last couple of days' exchanges you had with Mike, my distinct impression is that Mike's quasi-intellectual verbosity constitutes a strong example of what Paul warned Timothy about in II Timothy 2:16. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. To put it terms I've used frequently on my blog -- it's mostly bull$hit.

Yes. Lots of us. He was early way corpse and a genuine hard a$$. OTOH, subsequent to his twi departure, some folks have had good experiences with him.

Like perhaps the Socratic method... which would work great if actual teaching was the primary goal, except that it teaches critical thinking skills.

WW, I laud your analytical prowess and am thankful you were able to recognize the substantive problems with twi while attending ROA. I also agree that "significant" as used in significant emotional event is highly subjective. I'll go one further at this point too. Emotions in humans often are subjectively perceived and/or experienced. While it may not now be a cornerstone of psychology or sociology that adults NEED some sort of tumult to change "big things in their lives," it may soon be a cornerstone of neuroscience that human decision making is inherently driven by emotion. To what degree and how much it varies from individual to individual may not yet have been objectively defined, but research is taking place to do so. I would suggest viewing the PBS series on The Brain with neuroscientist David Eagleman (which can be viewed for no additional charge on Amazon Prime)... specifically episode 4 (titled "How Do I Decide."

Clearly, you haven't read Charlene Edge's personal history. She worked for several years in Dictor's "research" department. Dictor very much was insistent on his own private interpretation holding sway.

Twi leadership has been that for a long, long time.

Sleep well. I look forward to more discussion with you. And... Merry Christmas.

EASY to believe. A couple of years ago, a 9th corpse bro from a state in the SE USA had a business trip to my local area. He and I and another (already local) 9th corpse bro had dinner together. The fellow from out of state asked us if we still went to fellowships even though we long ago ended our association with twi. Both of us responded something pretty much along the lines of your statement on book reports. Eventually, it gets old when one realizes that the "signs, miracles and wonders" PFLAP and dictor promised just don't manifest in twi or any of the various splinter groups. I also recommend, for your reading pleasure, a book that sheds tremendous light on what "research" twi ever had and the ways dictor was able to pull the wool over our eyes for so long. That book is Charlene Edge's Undertow.

Perhaps you weren't completely clear. "They don't want our money." ≠ " they want each of us to give where we see fit." "They don't want our money" does equal that they already have enough money to cover start up costs for their new enterprise. I'd wonder where they got it. "They are a new group, still finding their way..." Well, maybe... but it really just looks from here like they just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic, figuratively speaking. Though TWI really isn't comparable in size to the Titanic. The leaders of "R&" (no longer two R's, right?) aren't new people. Moneyhands and most of the others have been in TWI for at least four decades. I would also ask you to help us understand what they are undoing and how they are going about it undoing it.

There is an art and a science to polling. Based on solid structure to the questioning, important things can be determined about the success or not of campaigns like PFLAP.

Actually confirmation bias often equates to bull$hit.

Okay from the perspective of an informal poll. But to draw reasonable inferences from it, would require substantially more structure and consistency of the questions and a solid grasp on the importance and significance of statistical methods. For polls to have meaning and to form the basis for reasonable inferences would require... I guess as stated above.

With a big portion of irony, perhaps that's the Wierwille legacy... malignant narcissism that clones itself every so often.

Great quotes DWBH! And I'm with JayDee and Socrates in my first impression of Mike's recent comment. That's some incredible hubris Mike. I'm wondering just how you were able to take a poll of the "many, many thousands of grads" to find out whether or not they are "thankful as all get-out" for having sat through the cult indoctrination class now known as PFLAP. Oh, and how did you get appointed (anointed?) spokesman for them to bring the message of what it would take to "ever have credibility" with them? Frankly however, aside from the absurdity of those claims you made, it is more clear that you demonstrate the human frailty of believing and basing your life on a story that lacks credibility. But hey, what do I know?

JAL does do that with everyone he's friends with on FB. I just didn't respond to his marketing tactic. He might have some jealousy, but he also likely mixes it in with a YUGE ego and lack of self-awareness. One advantage to that, for him, is that it likely helps him push on with denial about the physical illness he's dealing with. That denial might be crucial to his belief that he will beat the illness. Humans are strange creatures.

Have you tried looking for him on spokeo.com? There are a LOT of people named Jeff Pappas in the US. (Well over 100) If you narrow your spokeo search to Massachusetts, you'll find one that has lived in New Knoxville, OH. That could be the one you're looking for.

Is that a clever new epithet? :)

My take on the #MeToo movement as it relates to TWIt ministry is that we -- here at GSC have been ahead of the curve for years. Recognizing the problem of authority figures sexually exploiting women because they believed they were entitled to do so. It may also give us a leg up on calling the offenders out in politics, sports and entertainment because we have been reflecting on and examining the issues of power relationships for a couple of decades -- if you consider it as far back as trancechat.

Maybe. However, here's another way of looking at it.