Rocky

We all know the childhood saying about sticks and stones and names will never hurt me. At least some of us know that isn't true. We know very well that words can hurt us.

For the past couple of weeks, this place has been full of hurtful and hateful words. I don't really care how one justifies it. "He started it first," etc. That's kindergarten justification. I don't even except that excuse from my children.

I have watched people be labelled, I have watched their words get twisted into things they have never said, hell, I watched one man basically have his identity outed (though maybe most of you already knew who he was - I certainly did not) in the name of DEFENDING him. Yet, I would imagine if he wanted his identity revealed he would have posted under his real name. A list of who should be "banned" was put together. I could go on and on, but why bother.

It is like a sickness. Maybe some of us had it before TWI. TWI certainly encouraged it. This notion of "reproof" and "confrontation." And it is till alive and well here at the cafe. The legacy of TWI certainly lives on and on and on.

Personally, I feel like I have had the .... kicked out of me. I feel physically bruised and battered, and it was all done with words and in the name of some "greater good." I am certainly not sure what that greater good is anymore, and I certainly am at a loss to understand what I did to deserve it.

5 threads all hurling accusations and cruelty and people. Calling people out for battle. Not one thread pulled down, most (though thankfully not all) of those posts still stand.

I started one thread, asking for an honest discussion about what does and does not constitute a personal attack. It appears few really want to discuss that issue. Perhaps because it would cause them to look too closely at their own behavior, I don't know. What I do know is a Moderator spoke up on the one thread where it was politely asked that no labels and name calling be used, and esentially said there was no point to discussing the issue, no point in having started the thread. Yet the moderators have been by and large silent regarding most of the cruelty and calling out that has gone on through 5 threads now.

I don't envy Paw and the moderators. At this point, if this were my board I would probably close it down. That Paw has not causes me to have great admiration for him. I realize too, that there is no way in hell the moderators can read every post and remove every personal attack. They volunteer their time here, they have jobs and families at home that need them.

Rabbi Jospeh Telushkin wrote that one of the worst "sins" (sins isn't his word it is mine, because at the moment I cannot come up with a more apt one) is to be indifferent to someone else's suffering. There is a lot of that going on around here. Worst of all, that indifferece is upheld and defended in the name of one person's suffering and at the expense of anothers.

This is no longer a community I care to participate in. I cannot, for the life of me see how all of this bashing each others brains in with words is helpful to anyone. Indeed, not only does it probably chase off many people who come here looking for answers and looking for help, but it hurts the participants as well.

Paw, you put forth a valiant effor with this place. Do not misinterpret what I have said as an accusation against you. There simply isn't a way to moderate this place effectively if the participants will not use compassion and self control to moderate themselves.

I'm done.

Flame away.

Abi,

The solution is SIMPLY -- Do NOT feed the troll.

Do not answer. Do not respond. Do not reply. Do not REASON with.

Just IGNORE it. Consciously. Deliberately. Consistently. Universally.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Do NOT acknowledge ANY point the troll thinks it's making.

When EVERYONE does this consistently, it will (eventually) work.

It will not necessarily be by banning the troll, but if it (the troll) is ignored by all, if the bait is NEVER taken, it ceases to meet whatever need it represents to the troll.

Period. End of story.

WE SHOULD STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS.

Well put.

Ya know, this just occurred to me. Evidently WD is endeavoring to practice law here, ... and isn't it true that (in many states) practicing law or impersonating a lawyer/attorney without a license is a felony? Or at least a misdemeanor?

It's similar to impersonating a doctor or practicing medicine without a license, I think.

In any event, why is it that a verbal testimony by a first hand/eye witness does not constitute evidence? ... Perhaps I can get an answer, and from a real attorney please. (Sorry WD, but you do not qualify.)

And please spare us the "I'm not a Weirwille apologist" crap please, WD. ... Why do I say this? Because you have never, _ever_ gone, to this extent, in defending anyone else against 'false, spurious charges' like you have done for that stupid kraut Wierwille. ... Never!

The man was a rapist. Among many other slimeball things. ... And I state that as fact.

Don't like that?

.

.

Sue me!

Garth... PLEASE don't feed the troll.

Dear Rocky,

If I was convinced that words could not possibly change attitudes and or beliefs I'd have no reason to (As I've said elsewhere) still be waiting for something good to come out of some.

I think perhaps that some kind of emotional event occurs when a wise man/woman responds to loving reproof. But unfortunately our TWI experience seems to have scared many people because of all the unjust, unloving bullying that occured there.

And so, you will continue to feed the troll? I certainly hope not.

If you are a wise man, you'll investigate my claim.

However, trolls are generally NOT wise people.

Belle,

So cardio exercise doesn't help you lose weight eh? Well do tell. Do you think that in 5 years the studies will say the exact opposite? The thing is, though.. you have to look at the studies to know these kinds of things. My saying what worked for me is just anecdotal evidence. I liked your links. The scientist and the stair master was particularly informative.

But weight loss or no, I think most people who exercise say they feel a lot better and its been shown to reduce all cause mortality. If you do a Google search on mortality and exercise, lots of studies pop up showing this but here's a link that's not too long to read..Exercise and Mortality So the bottom line is that exercise IS good for you... even if it doesn't make you lose weight, huh?

sudo

Come on dude, don't be that way... you know she did NOT say that.

But she DID say similar to what I said about each individual figuring out what works for them... why do you want to argue?

This is PARADISE!!! :)

Exactly. so if people don't take the bait to argue with them on their terms and instead show them the error in their thought, according to the teachings of VPW, they might go away, or at least think before posting.

Not a snow ball's chance in Phoenix in August of THAT EVER happening.

However, experience has demonstrated dramatically that NOTHING like "show[ing] them the error in their thought" will change them.

Sociologists have observed that for adults to change personal values takes a major "significant emotional event" in the life of the person who will make the change. Showing the error of their ways (or thoughts, or beliefs or actions... etc.) is NOT the kind of "significant emotional event" that will cause a troll like WD to change his values.

Changing values

Could there ever be an opportunity to change these values and, thus, change attitudes which result in new behavior? According to Dr. Morris Massey, a noted national speaker and expert on values, it would take a "significant emotional event" to do this. (continued, including to list examples of such events, at the link provided)...

P.S. I have been wanting to share every time I have read the title of this thread......that the BEST example of how to lose weight that I have seen is just recently when my daughter lost over three hundred lbs of unsightly weight ..... when she dumped loser scummy boy friend.... :)

Congrats to daughter for THAT massive weight loss and life gain!!!! :)

I agree that exercise is important, but I think weight training is the most important. There is some benefit to cardio, but the benefits do not include weight loss. NOVA did a documentary on average joe citizens training for a marathon and not one of them lost any weight despite all the extra cardio they were doing. Exercise is good for making one hungry, not for losing weight. :)

The Scientist and the Stairmaster: Why most of us believe that exercise makes us thinner—and why we're wrong is a great article on the subject.

I'm actually growing rather fond of yoga, myself.

Absolutely...

Hey...I LOVE pasta, but I'm like Sudo...my body responds to it rapidly.

I actually went to talk with a bariatric physician [obesity specialist] because I was so frustrated that EVERY diet out there didn't work. Heck...i GAINED weight on Weight Watchers first week quick weight loss.

He said something remarkable; just as our fingerprints are unique, our individual body chemistry is unique. That's why one person will do well on a diet and another will not.

The trick is for each of us, it is trial and error. I can only take in 60 grams of carbs [starches or fruits] per day to maintain weight. Any more and I gain it. Yet, my son-in-law LIVES on carbs and is struggling to keep his weight UP!!

Yes, metabolism. Thanks for reminding me.

Intake is only one side of the equation.

Expenditure of calories is the other side of that equation.

Exercise and other lifestyle issues have a key role in that expenditure.

For me, I didn't really start losing weight until I started a regular exercise regimen that included BOTH cardio (aerobic) exercise AND resistance/muscle development/weightlifting. And when one starts regular weightlifting, he generally GAINS weight at first. However, the added MUSCLE BURNS CALORIES. Whereas, FAT only STORES calories.

btw, BEST WISHES for long life and health to PAWTUCKET, especially for the adventure involved in the medically supervised diet.

:eusa_clap:

I'm not interested in a p1$$ing match with you sudo.

Bottom line is that if you don't want to eat pasta, don't eat it.

I find nothing inappropriate with including pasta in my regular eating plans.

This is certainly NOT a game of who's right or wrong.

It's a matter for each individual to find what works for him or her.

For the long run, the very best idea is to determine what you can eat that will satisfy your hungers and cravings while taking in the least amount of calories -- in a way that you can maintain for the rest of your life.

That means the whole concept of going on "a diet" is faulty, IMO.

And yes, I think Taubes's book is a gold mine of insight waiting to be had...

For the record, no one has pm'ed me about wd.

And I have not pm'ed anyone about him.

Though I registered a 'report' to the mods on one occasion about wd.

Anyway, the fact is wd 'seems' to be twi or extwi. I Don't really know.

Though it seems their is or was some type of association of twi/vpw/pfal and wd.

If he is going to play like a troll, and do things that a troll does.

He will eventually hang himself.

Though his actions may be considered trollish, that don't make him one.

I just don't think he can hear or see straight with whatever his intent is.

I think both Rocky and Rhino have good intentions in their posts.

Though the action is in question.

The fact is, if you want to pm someone you can.

And even talk of someone else.

I personally would not make it a practice of doing this about anyone.

But sometimes it will happen and has.

And even needs to be done.

It's not a rule, nor should be imo.

Sometimes a person will feel the need to do so.

That freedom to do it is here.

I believe the moderators are doing their job well.

And they are quite human, as we are.

As Jeff has said, some of these folks that post with questionable intent.

Have indeed magnified and made very apparent the true intent of others.

Which is a good thing imo.

I wouldn't say wd is a troll, though trollish looking.

If that makes any sense to anyone...lol..

The results of wd's actions have been assisted by others.

That compounds the problem rather then isolating it.

Not only for wd but for the betterment of us all.

I appreciate the feedback on my suggestion. I agree with cman... I don't find any fault with rhino's criticism of my idea.

Indeed, the bottom line is that WD acts like a troll, whether he is one technically or not... and the ONLY way to get him to shut up is for there to be complete and total absence of response to him... just plain ignore him... do NOT engage him in any way, or to any degree. He has clearly and emphatically demonstrated that there is a complete disengagement from reality on his part. Any effort to "convince" him of anything (i.e. reason with, persuade of, etc. etc.) will NOT succeed.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

I understand what you are saying, but let me offer a bit of my perspective on ignoring trolls. Unless it can be done in such a way that it is unmistakable that the troll is being ignored, while being nothing but supportive to the victim, the troll will take it as acceptance of what he/she is saying. I don't think that's good.

Bringing up VPW's very own words regarding "establishment" through 2 or more witnesses was my way of pointing out the error in his logic and I believe strongly that anyone with half a brain (which has been established is more brain than a "Way" brain) who is reading these posts will be able to discern truth from mere posturing. On the other hand, logic and the academically accepted standards for argumentum, is something that a way-brained person just does not get.

It is unambiguously unmistakable ignoring of the troll when there is a complete disregard for it (the troll).

When (any) one person addresses the troll (as you did in your 7:34am (pdt) entry today in the last sentence), it feeds the troll.

When (any) one person addresses, quotes, or responds to the troll's post, it feeds the troll.

If it comes up that a new person seeks to post a first hand experience, and the troll replies, that new person can be contacted by PM to encourage the new person and explain that the troll will not be acknowledged openly.

Please, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.

I've lost about 5 lbs since this thread started

I hope that's not JUST from reading the thread! :)

Indeed, encouragement from friends is a great ingredient to a successful weight management plan.

One must have more than first hand testimony? They've got to do better than that? That has to be one of the most illogical things I've ever heard. VPW will never be proven guilty by your standards because: a) he's dead and b) the chance there was a rape examination and DNA samples of semen fluid taken are probably non-existent due to the climate of the era, which includes looking the other way. There was more than enough of that kind of denial going on at the time, which is how it was able to happen.

To discount testimony from the numbers of victims is even beyond the standard of scripture itself, and is nothing less than ironic since VPW himself claimed that man's problem was falling below the standards of God or setting a standard higher than what God demanded in living a godly life. According to scripture, witness by 2 is sufficient to get a death sentence in a crime punishable by death. So I'm wondering who you think you are to demand more to establish guilt than what is even demanded by the scriptures? Who are you to go beyond even what the man you are defending himself claims is wrong (i.e. setting a standard higher or lower than the word)?

We're not conducting legal proceedings here, but if we were, the first hand accounts would serve as sufficient evidence of wrongdoing, due to the number of people who have come forward. A single witness could use additional evidence, such as identifiable physical characteristics, such as scars and moles which would only be seen if the man were naked to serve as an additional "witness." However, the point is moot because he is dead, and the dead can't have a criminal complaint filed against them, nor can one be prosecuted when one is dead. That does not make one any less guilty of what one does; it just doesn't allow for a legal remedy.

All of your legal posturing is just that - posturing.

Tzaia -- PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

The preponderance of evidence shows that he/it (WD/WD) is NOT doing ANYthing other than seeking attention and throwing out bait to see if anyone will pay attention. The ONLY way to get it to stop is to NOT FEED the troll.

I posted the following in that thread about libel laws, in response to the references WD had posted:

Then I wrote:

So far he has not responded.

WD, would you care to respond now that you're back?

Mark, please DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

Then let's speak of first hand information. Skeptic king here. OK, prince...someone else is the king...

You know, I have been awfully picky on the need for first hand testimony on abuse. You read Kristen Skedgell's book? It is full of first hand testimony.

The sexual attitudes in the corps, the idea that the corps men had to loosen up sexually, and that the corps women had to be ready to please the man of God, were not universally accepted by individuals when I was in, but the idea was slowly but surely spreading from leaders to individuals. Of course, it started from the top, unfortunately for Kristen. She had to please the man of God...the one at the top.

BTW I was in the same corps (8th) Kristen was in. I was not abused as she was. But in the fall of 1979, in residence at HQ, I became a first hand witness to the loosening up doctrine. No, we didn't have sex, it was just a little minor "playing around"...Hmmm, now how does a lot of sex start now...but I always wondered if it would have stayed minor had I not beat it out of there to our own (male) side of the trailer

Don't get me wrong, WD, I'm not knocking your skepticism. Even with the above, I have been a big skeptic on abuse. Ask rascal (civilly, please). I had tought standards which have finally been met. My question for you is, what are your standards? Do you believe the abuse COULD have happened? Are you willing to accept first hand testimony? To tell you the truth, I didnt expect much of that before I got and read her book. I am hard nosed about anti cult lecturing, having had it shoved down my throat in a deprogramming. Kristen's account meets any standards for first hand testimony. Greatly exceeds tham IMO.

edited only to fix a minor typo. And to say trust me, I had no idea that I was making the 500th post on this thread, really.

Lifted... please don't feed the troll.

Dove, you took one of my posts out of context and built your whole argument. Did you or did you not confirm what ex 10 wrote?? It was your confirmation of that information that I based MY statement on, thank you very much.

Your treatment of myself and others has been calculated, hateful and mean. There is no justification or excuse acceptable for the way you chose to treat people.

Oh, and your a lousy lawyer too. Take your arranged exhibits designed to support your false premiss that lead to your rediculous conclusions, and shove em.

Rascal, the ONLY thing you succeeded in doing with this post is to give the troll feedback letting him know someone actually read what he posted.

I can't believe anyone, after the discussion we've had thus far over the last couple of weeks, would take it (WD) seriously enough to actually read its drivel.

I know I didn't and pledge to not.

There's NO question that he is a p1$$ poor debater/arguer/"advocate"/"attorney"

DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

He ain't worth the time at this time.

He'll get his own first hand testimony in his time.

More real then anything he has ever known.

I have no doubt.

Excellently put. Succinct and poignant.

Cman said, in different words, DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

Chas,

You're right about the ketosis. During the induction phase of a strict Atkins diet the body usually does go into ketosis. I think its a valid concern too though it doesn't seem to hurt anything in the short run. After induction, though enough carbs are allowed to avoid ketosis.

Rocky... pasta is one of those refined processed carbohydrates. I think its precisely those kinds of carbs that are the problem in the usual cases of obesity. The typical pasta is made from bleached white flour and doesn't contain just a whole lot of nutrition, IMO.

sudo

Here are nutritional facts from the latest package of pasta I purchased from Trader Joe's (a month or so ago):

Trader Giotto's Multigrain spaghetti with flax (one pound with 8-2 oz servings)

Calories per serving: 190

Calories from fat: 10

Protein: 9 grams/serving (I aim for 100 grams/protein daily)

Dietary fiber: 5 grams/serving (roughly 1/5 of daily requirement of fiber)

This product (in my CONSIDERED opinion) is rich in critical macronutrients.

And Chas, going into ketosis is NOT a wise thing to do for long term weight management.

What works best for the long term is to make changes to your eating plans/habits that you can maintain for a lifetime.

Atkins, for the longterm, IS setting yourself up for problems with digestive organs.

Sudo - you mention the "short run" but how about the long run? Are there any studies or reports or anything? Just wondering... I'm considering this but felt some of the "side effects" might not make it worth it...

And Chas, if it's research you're interested in, a book I have but haven't started reading yet is:

Good Calories, Bad Calories challenging the conventional wisdom on diet, weight control and disease by Gary Taubes

I've had it recommended to me and a registered nutritionist is also reading it, so I hope to have feedback from her soon too.

Taubes METICULOUSLY documents and cites research. You should be able to get this book from your local library.

Chas,

You're right about the ketosis. During the induction phase of a strict Atkins diet the body usually does go into ketosis. I think its a valid concern too though it doesn't seem to hurt anything in the short run. After induction, though enough carbs are allowed to avoid ketosis.

Rocky... pasta is one of those refined processed carbohydrates. I think its precisely those kinds of carbs that are the problem in the usual cases of obesity. The typical pasta is made from bleached white flour and doesn't contain just a whole lot of nutrition, IMO.

sudo

I disagree. Pasta is one of those PLANT based protein/carb combinations. HIGH in protein, generally. Contains significant macronutrients (protein). In this case, your IMO is not necessarily that of a medical professional trained in that specific discipline. And for those wanting to give proper emphasis to fiber while eating pasta, there are plenty of available whole grain pastas on the market these days, and not just a health food stores.

There are some whole grain pastas out there:

I typically buy Kroger brand, but a national brand is http://www.healthyharvestpasta.com/our_products.htm .

I also eat whole grain brown rice, Smart Squeeze spread (no reported fat, at all), and remember from a nutrition course that sweet potatoes are reportedly nutritionally superior to white potatoes.

Caveat:

Some products that have the words "whole grain" on the label are not really whole grain. If you check the ingredients information on the package, and see "enriched" flour, the product , of course, is not whole grain, though it might contain some whole grain ingredients.

Another tip: IIRC, a product's ingredients are by law supposed to be listed in descending order of prevalence. For example, if "whole wheat flour" is listed first on the package's ingredient list, whole wheat flour is supposed to make up a greater proportion of the product than any single subsequently listed ingredient (except in the case of a tie, I suppose).

I concur with each of your points.

Has his acne cleared up yet?

I think so, but he's still just as ugly as ever. But that's part of his charm! :)

Is RJ collecting Social Security Yet? he must be darn close

Yeah... he's 44. and a perfect 13-0 against the Cubs.

The first 2 weeks after the kids returned home were relatively peaceful.

I expected my son would take some time off - - he's was entitled IMHO. He had worked without benefit of vacation for almost 3 years and with all that happened so quickly that day, I would have been glad to float him and carry him for a month if necessary - - but he would have none of that.

He manned the phone(s) for a couple of days, but on Monday he phoned his old boss. He became an excellent worker after he grew out of his middle teens. He was well skilled in his arena and willing to add to his skill set, he always had a pleasant manner about him, and he had grown to NOT become lazy. So - on Tuesday he had an interview and on Thursday morning reported for work.

After that, every day he got up and went to work by day. When he came home he's man the phone(s) until bedtime. It payed off, though. I don't know how many he managed to get out of the organization...but I know most folks listened intently to his narrative.

His wife, on the other hand, my beloved DIL, walked from room to room seemingly in circles. I wanted to grab her, physically wrap my arms around her and soothe her - but there was something about her demeanor that kept me at arms length. She kept the house looking good, shopped and cooked each night's meal, but wasn't able to do anything more than that. I wasn't expecting anything "more" in quantity certainly - for she had certainly been through the wringer too...but she was not able to do anything except that which she could do on autopilot. I tried showing her several times about the laundry machines....I know...a washer is a washer....and a dryer is a dryer...but we all know that they have their idiosyncracities and we can usually figure them out. She could not. She didn't even put it together that the washer's directions were written on the inside of the top lid! I don't want to put her down. I don't mean to make her look stupid or silly - - rather she was like one of those fish in the ocean that is stunned by a physical sound or some such other.......and they just hang there. She was truly shell-shocked I believe.

You must understand that in no way am I attempting to put her down or take anything away from her. She was not the person I'd come to know - - and love. She was another personality altogether. Our son was still out son. He had grown up of course in the time since we'd seen him last, but he was still the same person - - not just more of a man.

During the month of July, my son found an apartment, signed the lease and was ready to move in the beginning of August. My DIL did not go with him. Instead, she went to visit the "man on the bus" and lived with him for quite some time….I understand they were eventually married. I have no idea where they settled down to live.

After those 2 weeks came the final insult! Their belongings from Gunnison were delivered.

I told you that they had to rent a storage unit, and that mister liner drove the truck to our street right in front of our house and they led him to it. .

As soon as possible after everything was brought to New Jersey, they collected the boxes and brought them to the house to look through them and sort. I wish you could have seen some of these cartons. The cardboard was weak and looked like it had been used and abused. Some of them weren't even sealed, just closed over with that flap-inside-a-flap that we use sometimes when it's only temporary storage.

One of the boxes was very large – on the order of a large (for it's time) TV perhaps. That one held all their heavy winter clothing. Nothing was folded. You know that when you put seasonal things away, you fold them wither you launder them or not….so that you can get more in the box and take care to cram the box as full as possible. None of these was taken care of in the slightest. Everything "winter" was crammed into this one box. Boots, coats, sweaters - - everything. Many things were missing. They both had the best quality hiking boots, only 1 boot made it's way "home". One of their superior "greater than 20 below" sleeping bags had gone missing.

My DIL never had much costume jewelry. Her father always made an excellent living and consequently she had the "real stuff"! She found only 1 diamond stud (there were possibly 2 pair). Her jewelry box was no where around, but what was returned of her jewelry was just dumped into one of the boxes. [Ladies remember how carefully we always treated our chains so they wouldn't kink?]

They were anxiously waiting for their stuff because they wanted their computer. We had given them one for a combination birthday/anniversary/Christmas gift – and it was not cheap! [not like today, for sure] They were looking for their contact list and a number of other things they wanted to take another look at.

They put the whole thing together and turned it on and nothing happened. No lights, no bumping pinging noises…..nothing. At first I thought perhaps somebody had forgotten to lock the disks (I don't remember if that was still necessary at that time or not…but the thought ran through my mind) Of course, it was always possible that it had also been manhandled and did not make the trip well so we brought it down to the computer repairman downtown. He called within 2 hours of our dropping it off with the reason it wouldn't operate - - somebody had reformatted the hard drive.

Not erased everything…..reformatted everything. If you're reading and don't know that much about computers, reformatting wipes everything off the disk. Erasing it still allow it to "remember" that it was a computer- - - please now install my software so I can do something useful for you. This box didn't know if it was a computer or a refrigerator! As if that wasn't bad enough, even the software that had come installed on their computer came with a hard copy set. Microsoft Office was a $400+ program then. There were other programs we or they purchased and used, but I don't recall anymore what they were.

Now - - it makes sense to me that somebody would do that.. Instead of hunting around and looking for files that you don't want duplicated anywhere - - especially your list of contacts, just set the thing on format and you don't have to worry about doing any thing more - - it will carry out your last command while you go and finish ransacking their stuff! Their monitor and printer arrived intact but none of their computer supplies did. [None of their other office supplies either….not even a roll of scotch tape - or a single staple.]

We knew they had office and computer supplies galore because we kept them well stocked. When you have to live on $1 a day, you ask your family and friends to send you such stuff for birthday and other gifts just so you can come out even!

After the second week in August, when my son moved into "their" apartment [about 4 blocks away from this very place coincidently], I never saw my beloved DIL again. I still miss her - - at least the young woman she was. My son moved out. He took some of our "extra" furnishings and incidentals and their stored wedding gifts and began his new life.

Why was all of this so hard on me? I don't know. It didn't really happen to me - - but it hit me so very hard. I don't know how you who were, indeed, physically and otherwise abused managed to keep it so "together" today. Maybe it has to do with it happening to our kids. You know – I don't mean to take anything away from you who also endured, but I wonder - - - you can do whatever you want to me and I'll figure out a way to survive and endure it…….but if you touch one of my kids, I'll go for your throat and have your bowels for lunch [figure of speech!]. Maybe that's what it is.

I do know this, however……………

When you've been **** e d by the Way, you've been through and through and throughly f**ked!

Krys... I hope you are getting some sense of something... I don't know, maybe closure, maybe catharsis, from sharing this very significant series of events as it was for you and your son and his then wife.

Indeed, you've described an incredible mean-spiritedness on the part of TWI.

It certainly makes complete sense that you would have been upset because of what happened to your cubs, as it were...

The Big Unit got win #291 tonight... pitching 7 shutout innings and the Dbacks bullpen did NOT self destruct this time!!!

You're basically putting your body into ketosis with this, aren't you?

Wouldn't that mean liver and kidney problems later on??

Yes.

That's why I don't do Atkins... but do refrain from the simple sugars/starches. I use only whole grain bread.

It's important to recognize also that pasta is NOT simply a high carb food. It's also a significant source of plant based protein.

Man first walked on the moon!

Where were you when you watched it?

I was sprawled out on my living room floor in heat that was beyond hot (before we air conditioned the ol' homestead) with my mouth agape. What a nite.......

Had been spending the summer with my dad in Rochester NY... watched it in the living room on the (only) tv (in the house). I was 14... that was 39 years ago...