Rocky

Which probably was a factor on how/why we became vulnerable to this particular cult. I mean, how many people who took PFLAP came from Islam or other traditions/religions?

Is this an admission on your part, Mike, that you come here for the primary purpose of beating dead horses?

Seriously? What makes you think I was at all confused? That's awesomely presumptuous of you Mike. Alas... yet still not persuasive.

Why would it be so much more catastrophic for anyone (here) who is not you? Still absurd.

Mike said: "You can't really attack my logic or my data, so you attack me. You fear "authority" as whistle blowers will be blown." Seriously? I didn't attack you. But you're saying I "fear" authority? You? Are you claiming to be authority? Are you claiming to be a whistleblower? That's just silly.

You said that like it's something that IF a person wanted to, s/he COULD forbid God from working with sinful men...

Oversimplified... but I understand.

That's my understanding of Moss's position.

YES!

Cryptic and obtuse. If this is something you'd like to discuss, more information (clarification) on your intent is necessary.

Noted and corrected.

You're one to talk... about missing any point. If you want people to get your points, you might consider changing your approach. Cryptic and obtuse generally doesn't promote avoidance of misunderstandings.

What a horribly pessimistic and self-limiting declaration. "Knowledge is power" is a saying that goes back at least four centuries. Whether or not what Loy Martindale or Victor Wierwille taught gives a person much power can be debated, for sure. However, as a concept in the abstract, there's a lot of truth in the proverb and the oodles of meaning underlying it. Internet search "knowledge is power"

All STORIES. Isn't humankind all about stories?

Leah Remini posted this to twitter today.

obtuse

https://www.tampabay.com/news/clearwater/2022/04/28/3-former-scientology-workers-sue-saying-they-were-trafficked-as-children/ Local Florida news outlet, Tampa Bay Times. excerpt: Through its highly regimented Sea Org workforce, Scientology officials systematically trafficked Baxter, 39, and others by indoctrinating them as children and making it financially, physically and psychologically impossible for them to leave as adults, according to a lawsuit filed Thursday in Tampa federal court against Scientology leader David Miscavige and five church entities. The 90-page complaint was filed on behalf of Baxter, his wife, Laura Baxter, and Valeska Paris, who all were raised in Scientology and worked on the Freewinds, where they said the church confiscated their passports and identification documents. They allege six counts of forced labor and peonage in violation of the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act.

IMO, it's a story, not literal/factual truth/reality. But you raise intriguing questions about the culture(s) in which this story originated and survived up to the present time. Some present day Christian fundamentalists have apparently lamented what they see as a trend toward atheism. Perhaps they could benefit from exercising the brains God gave them rather than subject more than six billion humans to mindless fearmongering. Just sayin'.

Intriguing! FWIW, I neither agree nor disagree. Rather, this thread looks and sounds to me like an entirely philosophical discussion, rather than about religion. Personally, I wouldn't presume to have any idea what God, or whomever dreamt up and put this physical universe in motion, could possibly know or not now. I proceed from the perspective that whatever or whomever that might be knows far more than I ever will... at least in this life.

Mike, it seems you forgot to include the premise. Who is going to have to re-vamp their assessment of Wierwille? Why would they need to do so? Going to have to thus re-vamp IF WHAT? For what purpose. Do you assume we care about the history of his personal ministry or overall mission or purpose in life for some reason? I'm confident that many of us here have made it clear we have no such intention. He lost all credibility in my mind about 35 years ago. Now, if you were to say something to the effect of "if anyone wants to understand where Wierwille got certain of his ideas, such as ... or ... then you may want to read up on this guy George, then I'd be more inclined to check into it/him.

Be that as it may, I don't really think that's the subject of this thread.

To reiterate MY premise for this discussion.

Wow! You see? How could you possibly? I don't think I've seen you ask for clarification on anything I've said that could lead you to such a conclusion. I'm not going to argue or bicker with you.

That seems rational.