Hope R.

If you read part 2 of my TWI 3 & 4 thread - it ends with LCM welcoming everyone to TWI II. HE called it that. Household morphed into meaning only the TWI faithful by LCM's teachings on the remnant, zion, and living sanctified (set apart) as well as his desire for this remnant to "cross the bridge to the promised land of the prevailing word".

I'm going to give "Deadwood" one more try. I grew to like "Carnivale" - but I'm not sure I can sink my teeth into this one. Was that really "Larry"? The one with the brother Darryl and the other brother Darryl? I'll have to look more closely next time. I think Christopher will either get killed with Adriana or rat out everyone and they'll both go into the Witness protection program. Didn't David Milch produce or write for "Hill Street Blues"? Or was it "NYPD Blue"? Or was it just for a bunch of Steven Bochco shows...

They still haven't learned how to step outside of "the household" in order to do good works. Of course, smiling and maintaining a positive attitude is all you have to do to "bless" someone. I'm really looking forward to the re-make of "The Stepford Wives".

Exie: I just edited my post to say him (or her) because I'm not sure...

While I've been at loggerheads with LLP in the past, I respect his (or her) right to post his (or her)opinions. As far as an opinion of "The Passion" goes, here's mine... (and no, I haven't seen it - the blood stuff would make be barf). I agree that Mel originally made the film out of his Catholic conviction, but I think in the end, when the money was spent and he saw that there was a load of controversy around the movie, he let loose the media hounds and made sure that everyone knew about it. He even previewed it for free to a lot of churches and fundie groups. I'm not putting him down for that in any way. Had I layed out that much money for a film I believed in, I'd want to 1.) Get the word out about it and 2.) At least make back my original investment. Money may not have been the prime motivator for him making the movie, but what film maker sets out to lose $30 million dollars? (hmmm - can you say "Gigli"?). I don't think it's wrong for him to make money on the film. But I think to say he was so altruistic that he didn't care about making money is naive. Remember what happened when Martin Scorsece(sp?) made "The Last Temptation of Christ"? I think all the controversy and publicity made that movie more money than they expected it to make as well. That's why they call it "the business" in Hollywood... it IS business. (ready for fire and brimstone...)

Yes - this is the letter all the Corps received. See the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. I wondered why he was sending that letter to me since I wasn't a staffer or clergy. Because it went to all the Corps (which it did), it should have been addressed to all the Corps. (Sorry, that wasn't clear now that I'm reading it again). Someone else mentioned there was another letter after this one to all the Corps as well. I don't remember it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen - I just don't remember it. Tt-t-t-that's all folks....

Oh - and I have a prediction.... #1 - They're going to find out about Adrianna - Rosalie Aprile is going to figure it out. Adrianna is history by the end of the season. -0R- #2 - She'll continue to rat them out and the FBI will have enough on Tony and others to put them away forever at the end of season 6 - and that's how the show will end. I'm betting on #1 though. I don't get who this lady mobster is - Lorraine (?) - why has she never been around before? How does she fit in with Carmine and Johnny Sack? I should go read the HBO site I guess...

You all may think I'm nuts for saying so - but that letter (the one in Pirate's post - addressed to the staffers, etc.) is the only one I ever received. Maybe because I was in Florida and everything seemed to be hunky-dory-dory here is the reason I never received anything else after that. I don't know why LCM felt it was necessary to send a letter addressed to specific people out to everyone. It is my opinion that he really was asking everyone in the Corps to make a choice - not just those he addressed. IMO, he should have sent that letter out TO ALL THE WAY CORPS - it would have been the honest thing to do at the time. Instead, he baited everyone who wasn't staff or clergy to give him an answer. I think it was pretty sneaky.

I am planning on attending - I'm the one who begged for Columbus Day weekend. Ahhhh - leaves changing!!!! We'll be flying, too. I know it's way ahead of time, but having a "food fund" for folks like us who won't be travelling with coolers would be a good idea.

I know quite a few good men and women who were in TWI serving as leaders who wanted nothing more than to love God and the people they served. Over time, many of them became hardened and bitter (B*b M******n). Others who left TWI stayed wonderful and loving (Joe Guarini). But I can't think of too many in that catagory because I lost touch with most of them. No one who I know of that was a loving and caring leader in TWI 1 or 2 and stayed in through TWI 3 & 4 remained that way. No one. And I watched them change over the years, too. It wasn't a pretty sight.

LCM called his class "Biblical Principles of a Believer's Family". It came out in 1995. He and Donna taught it. I can't go into it right now because looking at the syllabus makes me think of the hypocracy this man and his wife had in presenting this class and themselves as an example of a godly marriage.

Goey - oh dear Lord, no... Oldies, you didn't get it.... What I was saying is that I think that CG was working on his "thesis" during that one year time period - getting ready to sock it to 'em, formulating a way to get the worst reaction from the BOT and the Corps (or is the best reaction? guess it depends on who's end the reaction is on!). Had it been so effing important for them to know all the stuff in PoP - and if it was really from God and of God and godly - I don't think God would have had CG wait a year. Hence the "yuck" at the end of the paragraph. It's like knowing the Titanic has structural problems and could sink, but waiting until after it hits the iceberg to say you knew about it and what the engineers did wrong, how the captain effed up, and how it could have been stopped. CG had a lot of ammo to work with and nothing but the words of a dead man to back it up. Nothing he had written could be proved. Basically - IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO!!!!!!!!!! I think CG took a few unrealated facts, mistakes made by the BoT and the mumblings from a dying old man and put them together and MADE UP PoP. The trustees were so effed up that they weren't spiritual enough to see it. IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO Am I crystal clear?

On a personal note: In October 1995 I had to take LCM’s “new” Advanced PFAL Class or I would no longer be considered an Advanced Class Grad. It was there that I finally decided that TWI was never going to get better and I wanted out! During that class, Howard Allen came to visit and tell the story of his miracle healing that took place in the early 70’s. After he told the story, he continued to say how thrilled he was with Reverand Martindale’s leadership, how LCM was “cleaning house” and “getting rid of the weakness in the household”. In concluding, he said, “…and I’m proud to say that today The Way is no longer an open door ministry!” The whole audience stood up and cheered. I was dumbstruck – couldn’t believe what I’d just heard. If I had my own transportation, I would have headed home that day. 53rd Anniversary - October 1995 : it is announced that Donald E. Wierwille will step down and become the Vice President Emeritus in one year. Rosalie F. Rivenbark was chosen to serve as the new VP – the change will take place on the 54th Annversary in 1996. At that time LCM announces that “the Father” had told him the Word was over the World! I remember some kind of explanation about how there had been an opportunity to hear the accurate Word of God everywhere in the world and that now we had to "prevail". Would others please elaborate if you can. 1996: A big year with many new themes emphasized. LCM begins his teachings on “the Remnant” and “Zion” – comparing the TWI “household” to the people of Israel in the OT. “The Prevailing Word” becomes even more of a catch phrase. Terms like “prevailing household” and “prevail with the power of God” start cropping up in Way Magazine articles and teachings. LCM also introduces the “standing in the gap” teachings – leaders are to stand in the gap between the adversary and the believers in the household. That pretty much eliminated Jesus Christ from the picture. Discipleship is stressed. The theme announced at the 1996/1997 anniversary in October is “God’s Call To Discipleship”. Young people are urged to “go out Way Disciple” much like many of us were urged to "go out WOW". "The Present Truth" becomes a big deal. PFAL and VPW's teachings are "old wine skins". Main article in the November/December 1995 issue of The Way Magazine is titled: "God's Call to Discipleship: ESTABLISHED IN THE PRESENT TRUTH via the Way of Abundance and Power". In other words - LCM's class is "the present truth". (Note: also in this issue is an ad for the "Athletes of the Spirit" video. Hmmm - that was over 10 years old by then, could it still be the "present truth"?) The cover of the Jan/Feb 1997 Way Magazine has a photo of the Word Over the World Auditorium - with that title still in place over the entrance way. Beneath the photo it says: The prevailing Word moves out to the world via The Way of Abundance and Power". All the believers are encouraged to be "disciples", or achieve "discipleship" status. From the March/April 1997 Way Magazine: "God's Call to Discipleship: The Way of Abundance and Power" by LCM From another article titled "The Sweet Taste of Discipleship", by Brad Bailey -The Way Magazine, July/August 1997 And in the “Our Times: Insight” article which is titled “Welcome to the Way Ministry, Second Generation” by LCM in the same issue he writes: ---------more to come--------------

By the same author that wrote "Tuesdays With Morrie", Mitch Alblom It's 197 pages - you can read it in a couple of hours and it is marvelous. I can't give anything away but it did make me cry - a lot. Buy it, read it, and then give it to someone you love.

The Soprano's seems more like it has more gratuitous violence in it so far. The shooting of the waiter in the first episode was really horrible. And that Feech La Manna character is about as nasty as they get. I felt so awful when Uncle Ju got lost. It really got me upset. "Deadwood" was very dark - and a bit hard for me to follow - that bit about the $14k or the $20k - I didn't get it. I really, really liked Wild Bill Hickock - good actor. And they're portraying Calamity Jane quite accurately from what I've read. But what about all the "effing"? Did they really talk like that back then? They sound like they should be in da Hood, not in an 1870's Goldrush town.

Honestly, when I first heard PoP, I was amazed how un-exciting it was. I thought I was going to hear all kinds of "dirt" about the trustees. Instead, I heard at least an hour about CG's travails in Gartmore (boooorrringgg), another hour about him taking care of VP (booooorrrring), and another hour of him talking about people I didn't know (the dog training guy, one of his drivers, etc.) who did stuff that seemed pretty mild compared to what I thought I was going to hear. PoP was more about Geer setting himself up as the MoG than about VP's "last will and testament". If PoP was indeed VP's final wishes - why did it take a year for CG to read it? Oh, yeah, because VP told him to wait a year... wait... did anyone else hear him say that? Any of it? If the BoT were so effed up and running TWI into the ground - you would think old Scotty would have beamed himself to HQ's without waiting a whole year. I think he was planning and writing and scheming the whole time. Yuck.

There's also a little folder with a quotation mark in the bottom right hand corner of the page - if you go to the post you want to quote and click on it, it will automatically put the post in the quote form for you, and put that "originally posted by_____ in there, too.

Exie - do you remember sitting together at the Corps week reading of PoP - smoking cigarettes and making comments about poor CG having to clean the steps in Gartmore? Gawd - if you hadn't been there, I might have taken it seriously!

I heard about the medication, too, ex10 - from a very reliable source who was close to that psychiatrist. And I also agree with Alfakat - down to that 6-9 months of the anesthesia wearing off. It was that time that he got his Galatians teachings together and put all that hate towards Geer and anyone who believed that Geer was the MoG. Any of you who heard those tapes will know what he said about the debbil spurts that CG must have had. But the first 2 1/2 years after PoP, he was a turnip. I'm sure that CG had a lot of people pushing buttons at HQ's. Quite a few people were fired and/or maligned by the BOT under Chris' guidance. I'm not saying Craig isn't to blame, I'm saying that CG was definitely giving orders. I remember being told that before the BOT made any decisions for TWI, they had to run it by Chris first because they were so effin' unspiritual that any decision made by them was probably influenced by devil spirits.

Goey – I think I looked at the letter from a business viewpoint because I didn’t care about the spiritual at the time. I guess I looked at it logically, from a senses point of view. For me, the choices were either Craig or Chris. Since I didn’t think PoP was valid, since I thought Chris was a horse’s rear-end, there was no spiritual decision for me to make. I didn’t like the way Craig was acting either, but he held the TWI cards, so to speak. At the time, PFAL was still important to me so I stuck with the guy who had legitimate rights to the class. And again, from a senses point of view, it looked like Craig was going to be okay. He certainly had more personality and verve than Chris Geer, who had none! I never said that I thought the letter was saving TWI money, although indirectly I can see how you would come to that conclusion. I said that I didn’t think the people who were sending ABS meant for TWI to Scotland were ethically right to do so. I also said they shouldn’t have kept the PFAL tapes and materials when they were no longer employed by TWI. And, if TWI was paying for their lifestyle, they were wrong to keep accepting their salaries if they didn’t support the leader of the organization. And many of them not only didn’t support him, they down-right hated him. (one of the letters he received said something like “I am praying that you and the trustees either change or DIE! – C’mon, where is that at?). I agree the letter may have saved TWI money – but I was thinking about the ethics of the people who were receiving it – not the fact TWI was going to get more when they left. And were they? They’d still have to replace the people who left, which would probably cost them even more if they were paying for their moving expenses and setting up their living accommodations (deposits, insurance, etc.). Did the letter serve and “godly” purpose? That’s a tough one for me to answer since I guess I didn’t look at it spiritually in the first place. But it might have. If LCM felt that Geer was so harmful to TWI, if he felt that Geer was possessed (which we found out in the Galatians tapes that he indeed did think Geer was possessed), if he thought Geer was dividing TWI at the time, then to him the purpose of his confrontation was godly in his eyes. Of course, not everyone saw it through his eyes. Was he right in making people swear allegiance to a person? Probably not. But again, I looked at it as if Craig was a representation of the ministry as a whole. If I went with Geer, that meant I believed that PoP and everything he’d said afterwards was spiritually correct - that LCM and the rest of the Trustees murdered Dr. Wierwille!!! That the Corps were totally messed up and possessed. And that Geer was the only living MoG left in TWI! If I went with Craig, I felt that I was sticking with everything I’d learned prior to PoP. Those things that I’d based everything in my adult life on until that point. I wasn’t quite ready to make such a drastic change in my belief system. It was the easier thing to do (or so I thought!) and the one that I felt the best about doing. I was never quite spiritual enough to look at thing from a purely bible-based point of view. Again, I will again say that I think Craig went waaaaay overboard. But that was (and probably still is) his nature. I’d been around him long enough to know that and took that into account when I read the letter. If that kind of confrontation was necessary, would I have handled it differently? Sure. I’m not LCM (thank God). And perhaps it was necessary at the time. Things were really in limbo – no one knew which way to turn, especially the Corps on the field. There was a distinct difference between Craig and Chris – and I was almost glad about the letter because it made me think about what I was going to do regarding my participation in TWI. I don’t know if that answers your questions. On another note: I was in Florida. The leader here, the Right Reverend Mr. A*** (Napoleon complex) L***t was the Limb Coor. He was totally loyal to Craig. Very few Corps went the way of Geer here. There were a few other states that way (Ohio, N. Carolina – it all depended on where the Limb Coor. stood). Had I been with Vince in NY or Doug Seed in CA, things might have turned out quite differently. Guess I’m easily influenced!

That's it JohnUare! Thank you. I knew it was around the time something else was happening - just didn't recall what it was. I'm adding that to part 2 of my outline when I get a chance to get to it. When he announced that, I remember thinking "Huh? He's got to be kidding!" After leaving in 2000, I asked a lot of others who lived through that period what they thought when LCM announced that. They thought it was ridiculous as well. Amazing that no one ever expressed that at the time. -------more to come--------

I was in the middle of posting this last night and we had a power outage. Thank goodness I was using Word to type it …. Okay - I'm going to get beat up about this one…. When that letter came out, I felt that I shouldn't have received it. I wasn't on staff or a paid leader. I felt no urge to answer it. I was never asked to either. I can’t speak for John, but I don’t recall either of us ever being told to write to LCM in response to his letter. I remember thinking about the letter from a business point of view. If I worked for a company selling a product, and gave the money I made on that product to my most fierce competitor, I would have been immediately fired for doing so. I know that's the way it would happen in corporate America. Well, my pea-brain figured - TWI is a corporation, and the CEO was actually giving his employees another chance to keep on working for the company. I didn’t think he was all that off base. Maybe a bit too over the top emotionally – with the loyalty and allegiance stuff, but I figured that was Craig – he always got wound up about things more than he needed to. Frankly, at the time, I was glad to see he was back to his old “rah-rah” self. He’d been wimped out for a few years. I didn’t like Geer at all, never did, and I couldn’t see myself being a part of anything he was running. And I thought POP was a bunch of hogwash as well (still do- pffffffffffffft). I thought it was wrong that people were "stealing" the PFAL class at the time as well (ah, the morals I had before Napster!). After all, those tapes and videos were owned by TWI and the BC's and LC's who kept them had no right to do so. (Hey, if they wanted them for personal use, they should have made copies of them and returned the originals to HQ’s ;)--> ). But I really felt it was the wrong thing to do. I still think some people who kept the classes felt they were on some kind of mission from God to save PFAL from the evil doers at HQ’s. Okay – so we stayed in. It was hard. All our good friends left. We felt we had no alternatives – and we’d looked at all the spin-offs that were around at the time (church wasn't even a consideration). We figured things had to get better now that Craig was his old self. Unfortunately – he wasn’t his old self – he became mean and more stringent and harsh and unloving. His ego exploded. It took a few years to come to a head. At the time of the letter, we figured all would be well again and he was a better choice than Geer. I think the letter served its purpose. It did push most people over the edge to make a decision, and frankly, the people who were on Waypay shouldn’t have been receiving it if they were supporting Geer. Remember, at the time all the leaders’ housing and cars and clothing and even some furniture was paid for by TWI. I know of a Limb Coor. couple who were living in a 6,000 square foot mansion that TWI was renting for them who were promoting Geer. I even know of one leader here in Tampa whose monthly mortgage payment was being made by TWI. So that’s where I stood on the letter at the time. I don’t know how I feel about it now. Haven’t read it carefully enough to decide – and the others who have posted here have made some great points. I guess I just wasn’t “spurtchul” enough to get it at the time.

I'm stuck on something I can't find in my notes anywhere... Can anyone elaborate on when LCM announced that the word was over the world and exactly what he said. I remember something about "the father revealed to me that the word is over the world" - but have nothing on it. Radar? Oaks? Catcup?

Oldies - yes, that letter was directed to Corps who were on WayPay - BUT ALL THE CORPS RECEIVED IT! Think he was trying to put a bit of pressure on everyone???

Oldies - in the Waydale Documents section on the Main GS site, there are a bunch of Adobe.pdf letters from LCM to the Corps and/or Staff, including the loyalty letter. The letter regarding Corps spouses is here: Corps Spouse Letter - adobe.pdf I've been using all my 90's way rags, the letters from the documents section, some other letters I have saved and my memory to put this together. I'll finish later... Thanks to everyone who is contributing - please let everyone hear your stories about the last decade of TWI.