Nathan_Jr

22 minutes ago, Human without the bean said:

I'm not really confident but is this Full Metal Jacket?  No.   But I Jamie Foxx said it I'm sure.

Jamie Fox did, in fact, say it. He was not in FMJ, so, no, that's not it.

54 minutes ago, Rocky said:

And WHY do we buy those demands? It's certainly NOT logic.

Could it be the human condition of needing/wanting to belong to a group with whom we FEEL comfortable, sharing beleeefs in common?

This need to belong seems especially strong in the youth, the codependent and the immature. Cultural hegemony makes sure we find our group to belong and mark divisions accordingly.

It’s something to pay attention to. Why this need to belong? Maybe it’s not a problem, but how can we know unless we inquire? How can we see what we are doing unless we look?

The older I get, the more comfortable and secure I am with myself, the less I feel a need to belong to any group in order to feel comfortable and secure. 

12 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

From my point of view, as an athiest, all the mythical gods, and Alluh, Elohim, etc….., the names of which are endless, are a myth. They never existed, they do not exist now, and they will not exist in the future. 
Once you accept the fact that once you die, and you will go to the grave and decay like any other life on earth, you no longer have to be concerned about gaining or loosing rewards from an angry or loving God. Whew!!! Thank God. Lol. 

I don’t disagree.  

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

When I was a teenager and love bombed by the WOWs I was 100% blissfully ignorant.  I would have to say over time and conditioning that turned into willful ignorance.

Those two categories 100% still exist today.

“Above all, stand.”

”Commitment”

”Just beleeeve it.”

”Rely NOT on your own understanding.”

25 minutes ago, Rocky said:

The only thing I challenge(d) was that willfully ignorant people were the only ones who couldn't/wouldn't recognize it.

Those who are blissfully ignorant (by default) usually can't see it either. Perhaps that's why pictures of crowds of Germans saluting their fuhrer and only one person declining to do so is so stark.

Human nature is human nature. Having to suffer before people begin to recognize the absurdity is part of human nature, perhaps unfortunately. 

Well, I said there were two groups: the willfully ignorant AND the DUPED intent on believing inaccuracy into accuracy. My mistake was to say ONLY, so, yeah, that should be challenged. Fair enough.

The blissfully ignorant are easily duped. 

Fair, but I'm not sure this is an argument against my claim.

Indeed, most humans can't see the influence of cultural hegemony on their lives. Cultural hegemony requires duped beleeevers and the willfully ignorant for the influence to be effective.

Ideologues and their ideologies are problematic, whether religious or political or social. And verbiage is the Soma captivating the masses and lulling them into submission. We are as easily impressed by the quacks on the pulpits as by the "life coaches" on Instagram.

I think we have to suffer through this before seeing it clearly, unfortunately. But once seen, it can't be unseen, then we might see it everywhere.

7 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

I did a search on Dionydus, who was also known as Bacchus, and could not find any reference to him turning water into wine. Please provide a link. 
 

Right. Not in exactly the same way. But Hellenized Jews and pagans would have recognized the implications and connections. Jesus did it better, so the story goes, effectively superseding Dionysus.

https://mythologymatters.wordpress.com/2020/02/24/the-mythology-of-wine-vii-the-wine-miracles-of-dionysus-and-jesus-compared/
 

PFAL and the collaterals are replete with logical fallacies.

One of the very early fallacies in the corpus is a non sequitur: John 10:10, therefore keys.

Logical fallacies, errors and stupidity are embarrassingly apparent everywhere. They literally leap off every page. Only the willfully ignorant and the duped intent on beleeeving them into accuracy can't see them.

2 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Also, who can find someone that will change water into the finest wine?

Dionysus did it first.

45 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

The rule, established at the beginning of the thread, is identifying the movie.

Some of us like to add the name of the character or the scene, but that's not required, that's just us communicating and having a little fun.  (It's optional, but often appreciated when it's done.) Feel free to name the actor and/or the character.  Just don't forget to name the movie, that was the whole point! :)

Thanks

"I like the way you die, boy."

1 hour ago, Human without the bean said:

Airplane      Wally Cleaver's mother or Barbara Billingsley

"What ain't no country I ever heard of.   They speak English in what?"

 

Pulp Fiction - Jules played by Sam Jackson (Is attributing the line to a character or actor a rule?)

55 minutes ago, Human without the bean said:

I was thinking that the line was only memorable to me but thank goodness someone else knows it.  I love that movie.  Yes, that's it.

I haven’t looked at this thread all week, but I definitely consider that an easy movie quote. One of my favorite movies, too. 
 

“Oh, Stewadess! I speak jive.”

On 10/2/2023 at 3:58 PM, Human without the bean said:

I'll go for WordWolf, been 3 days.

"Oh, I'll never leave Montana brother" !

Not too obscure, A River Runs Through It.

4 hours ago, Charity said:

My misunderstanding then oldiesman - I thought when you said that the phrase "father in the word" was powerful, you were referring to how vp used it, which led me to think that your being encouraged to "go back there" meant twi.  I connected the dots incorrectly - thank you for the clarification.    

 

I think you made an easy connection based on how the dots were arranged, to your point. I thought the same as you.

Thanks to all for clarifying. 

1 hour ago, penworks said:

Yes, there's that. But more importantly and shockingly is the fact her mom was part of VPW's sex ring, as I call it. 

The situation of his seducing women is depraved. If my mother had been part of that, I can't imagine how heartsick I would be.

Charlene, did the girl give you any indication that her mother eventually woke up to realize she had been used and abused by a fraud? Or does her mother still believe that victor paul wierwille was a man of god?

4 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   It was powerful. 

Oldies, will you please clarify? What, exactly, was powerful?

2 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   It was powerful.   So powerful that I use it today with my Catholic "mother in Catholicism" who encouraged me to go back there.

Go back where? To New Knoxville?

Mmmph

Matt 23:9 (KJV)

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mmmph

I'm not saying I'm raising him to be an atheist or a Christian or a Buddhist or an adherent to any ideology. He knows if he wants to talk about any of it, I'm here to talk about it.

I hope I'm raising him to be curious, inquisitive, thoughtful, kind, compassionate, generous, respectful, diligent, honest, accountable. I hope.

I tell him if he wants to find out about God, gods or no gods, he can find out for himself. I tell him if he wants to find out if there is that which is eternal and unnameable, he can find out about that, too.

Maybe they WOULD be free to inquire, free to find out.

------

This topic hit hard for me recently. It's an issue that I've been concerned about for years. My son, 14, has been forced to go to Wierwillian fellowship his entire life. I've tried to imagine how the deprogramming will go when the time comes. Would it be hard? Would he M&A me?

We have never talked about God, religion, belief.  I've never brought it up, nor has he. Until two weeks ago.

He told me his mother says an administrator at his school is or has or a devil spirit. I immediately yelled, "BULLS HIT!" Since he brought it up, I seized the opportunity correct his indoctrination, but he stopped me mid speech with a raised hand and said, "Dad! I know! Don't worry. I know it's bulls hit." He then let out a long, hard belly laugh at the absurdity of it all.

I wept tears of relief and gratitude. He asked me why I was crying. "Joy, Son," I said. "Tears of joy." 

Last week we were going over some vocabulary and spelling. The word was pneumonia, I think. I casually remarked this should be easy to remember, "Because Greek...pneuma hagion... same stem...means breath...you hear that phrase every Sunday, right?"

He replied, "Oh, I don't know... I've never heard that... but I don't pay attention at fellowship. I'm usually sleeping with my eyes open."

Again, I wept. 

He then asked me when he can stop going to fellowship. I told him whenever he wants.

Everyone has a devil spirit. Even rap music is devil spirit, so says his mom. We laugh about how everyone and everything is devil spirit every day now. It's our inside joke.

I'm laughing and weeping tears of joyous relief even as I type this.

24 minutes ago, Charity said:

 

I agree with both of you.  I think of Jesus' request on the cross for God "to forgive them for they know not what they do" as well as Paul saying in 1 Timothy 1 that he was chief among sinners, yet he received mercy because he persecuted and blasphemed the church ignorantly in unbelief.  Considering his credentials as a Pharisee, it would seem that he was taught wrongly by the Pharisees he learned from (one of whom was his own father) which would explain his ignorance and unbelief.  This can also apply to the many who were misled by vp's and lcm's teachings.  

God cannot be fooled though because he looks at our hearts.  Paramount to Paul's experience is that when he was presented with the truth by Christ himself, he had a complete change of mind and purpose in his life.  

 

Right. Fair. It seems to me forgiving those who know not what they do is rather easy. Like forgiving a wild animal or pet.

But what about those who know exactly what they are doing?

Let them repent?

Sure. Let them.

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

I think there is room to maneuver on this one because forgiving a wrong brings  up the ability to discern, or judge, right from wrong and take appropriate action according to the situation. Theres times I have forgiven unconditionally, in the case of the way international's leadership who wronged me, and thers times I havent. I feel that people equate unforgiveness with bitterness and hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a case by case scenario that has no room for black and white thinking, though modern day churchianity seems to handle the topic in said manner.

Well said.

I don't think anyone MUST do ANYTHING. One may forgive or not. It's entirely the prerogative of the harmed. Manipulation by dogmatic doctrine doesn't make the forgiveness righteous and genuine. I don't think compelled forgiveness is forgiveness at all.

Never again will I be manipulated into forgiving anyone. It's my business. It's my heart.

Forgiveness is for the forgiver. Forgiveness may free one from angst, or it may not. There are other ways to let go.