Nathan_Jr

4 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   It was powerful. 

Oldies, will you please clarify? What, exactly, was powerful?

2 hours ago, oldiesman said:

Yes.   It was powerful.   So powerful that I use it today with my Catholic "mother in Catholicism" who encouraged me to go back there.

Go back where? To New Knoxville?

Mmmph

Matt 23:9 (KJV)

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mmmph

I'm not saying I'm raising him to be an atheist or a Christian or a Buddhist or an adherent to any ideology. He knows if he wants to talk about any of it, I'm here to talk about it.

I hope I'm raising him to be curious, inquisitive, thoughtful, kind, compassionate, generous, respectful, diligent, honest, accountable. I hope.

I tell him if he wants to find out about God, gods or no gods, he can find out for himself. I tell him if he wants to find out if there is that which is eternal and unnameable, he can find out about that, too.

Maybe they WOULD be free to inquire, free to find out.

------

This topic hit hard for me recently. It's an issue that I've been concerned about for years. My son, 14, has been forced to go to Wierwillian fellowship his entire life. I've tried to imagine how the deprogramming will go when the time comes. Would it be hard? Would he M&A me?

We have never talked about God, religion, belief.  I've never brought it up, nor has he. Until two weeks ago.

He told me his mother says an administrator at his school is or has or a devil spirit. I immediately yelled, "BULLS HIT!" Since he brought it up, I seized the opportunity correct his indoctrination, but he stopped me mid speech with a raised hand and said, "Dad! I know! Don't worry. I know it's bulls hit." He then let out a long, hard belly laugh at the absurdity of it all.

I wept tears of relief and gratitude. He asked me why I was crying. "Joy, Son," I said. "Tears of joy." 

Last week we were going over some vocabulary and spelling. The word was pneumonia, I think. I casually remarked this should be easy to remember, "Because Greek...pneuma hagion... same stem...means breath...you hear that phrase every Sunday, right?"

He replied, "Oh, I don't know... I've never heard that... but I don't pay attention at fellowship. I'm usually sleeping with my eyes open."

Again, I wept. 

He then asked me when he can stop going to fellowship. I told him whenever he wants.

Everyone has a devil spirit. Even rap music is devil spirit, so says his mom. We laugh about how everyone and everything is devil spirit every day now. It's our inside joke.

I'm laughing and weeping tears of joyous relief even as I type this.

24 minutes ago, Charity said:

 

I agree with both of you.  I think of Jesus' request on the cross for God "to forgive them for they know not what they do" as well as Paul saying in 1 Timothy 1 that he was chief among sinners, yet he received mercy because he persecuted and blasphemed the church ignorantly in unbelief.  Considering his credentials as a Pharisee, it would seem that he was taught wrongly by the Pharisees he learned from (one of whom was his own father) which would explain his ignorance and unbelief.  This can also apply to the many who were misled by vp's and lcm's teachings.  

God cannot be fooled though because he looks at our hearts.  Paramount to Paul's experience is that when he was presented with the truth by Christ himself, he had a complete change of mind and purpose in his life.  

 

Right. Fair. It seems to me forgiving those who know not what they do is rather easy. Like forgiving a wild animal or pet.

But what about those who know exactly what they are doing?

Let them repent?

Sure. Let them.

1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

I think there is room to maneuver on this one because forgiving a wrong brings  up the ability to discern, or judge, right from wrong and take appropriate action according to the situation. Theres times I have forgiven unconditionally, in the case of the way international's leadership who wronged me, and thers times I havent. I feel that people equate unforgiveness with bitterness and hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a case by case scenario that has no room for black and white thinking, though modern day churchianity seems to handle the topic in said manner.

Well said.

I don't think anyone MUST do ANYTHING. One may forgive or not. It's entirely the prerogative of the harmed. Manipulation by dogmatic doctrine doesn't make the forgiveness righteous and genuine. I don't think compelled forgiveness is forgiveness at all.

Never again will I be manipulated into forgiving anyone. It's my business. It's my heart.

Forgiveness is for the forgiver. Forgiveness may free one from angst, or it may not. There are other ways to let go. 

I can’t do your repenting, and you can’t do my forgiving.

See? That’s how it works. Simple. One coin. Two sides.

Freedom. 

We are talking about forgiveness and the forgiver and the forgiven and absolution and resentment and responsibility and letting go and…

Repentance

Sincere regret or remorse; a change of mind or purpose… a change within spurred by deep regret or remorse.

This change, this repentance, will be self evident. It will be seen. It will be obvious. It will not require belief.

One may have legitimate doubts about an offender’s apology, especially if it is no sincere  apology at all, but it’s a manipulative dodge. And the apology may appear or sound sincere, especially to the good-hearted offended who wants to forgive. Anyone ever in a relationship with an NPD has heard these apologies seven times a day for 7000 consecutive days — they are mere hollow, empty platitudes. 

How can you know if someone is truly repentant? They will be changed in their heart and word and deed, they will live this change, and this change will be seen by all. 

1 hour ago, penworks said:

Today's blog post:

Echo in New Knoxville, Ohio: Minister Reads "Undertow" | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)

I remember this blog post. Funny to see the comment from Robert. Is this postcard a new one? Different from the hilarious "Time to come home?" Has anyone else received a postcard recently?

Last week, I received a post card from The Way, suggesting I investigate “the new Way” ministry. Given I hadn’t heard from them in thirty years, and was blackballed after refusing to submit, branded a heretic, mark and avoid, etc, I found it curious they would reach out with a snail mail. My first thought, they must be hurting for cash. Since Wierwille taught our first thoughts are revelation, I must be right!
I drove by New Knoxville last week on my annual Ohio trip to Put In Bay, and wondered how they still support the place. Worse, how people still buy into their shtick. Given their post card to me, apparently not many are.
Congrats on the anniversary of your book, it’s been so meaningful to many. All the best!
 

20 minutes ago, oldiesman said:

A long, long time ago...   will never forget the first time I set foot on HQ... hitchhiked from Emporia (6 Corp), landed in the BRC.
 

 

Looks like a groovy scene. And the music sounds good. I sense that these kids were doing just fine by themselves and among themselves. This was definitely my vibe in my late teens and early twenties.

Too bad victor had to destroy it.

Who is the preacher teacher in the opening 3 minutes?

I love how victor contradicts himself at 4:50.

12 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

stepped up to ask forgiveness and make amends

This is such an important step when done from the heart. Asking for forgiveness and honestly attempting to make amends is liberating, even if forgiveness is not granted and amends are not possible. 

Every day around the globe (yes, Earth is an ellipsoid) people of various faiths and various non faiths “manifest the power of God.”

But they won’t tell you about it, unless you ask. Even then, they might not. Many of them don’t consider the power miraculous. And none will pretend to teach a class on how to do it.

Anyone claiming to teach a formulaic, H-O-W class on divine power is a charlatan fraud or deeply delusional.  

47 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Why is believing different than any other universal law?

Because it’s not a law.

35 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

If this place wasn't full of Mel Brooks fans, this would not be an "easy" quote. 

Bart in "BLAZING SADDLES."

(Although, I suppose, it could also have shown up in another movie.)

That's it. 

“This is a class on how…H-O-W”

OK. Show me...

Oh.

“Hey, Where the white women at?”

1 minute ago, GeorgeStGeorge said:

"I was born a poor black child."

George

The Jerk

7 hours ago, WordWolf said:

He did NOT get in.   

Neither did Max Fischer.

"Rushmore"

Sorry about that. Not an easy movie quote. Play is open to anyone...

8 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Hi cman

Sorry, I am missing the drift of your post. Are you saying my post is crap? And that what was declared in the Nicene Council about the “fall of man” teachings, was also bs? And some how God who will eventually show us the truth? Please elaborate. Thank you.

I think he is kinda agreeing with you. As do I. I think it's reasonable to ask for clarity. I don't understand many of his posts. I, too, often wish he elaborated more.

6 hours ago, So_crates said:

We were told we would manifest the power of God. How many do you know really did? How many healing and miricles are you aware that news of such didn't come from a friend of a friend (a ministry urban legend) ?

You see, the truth of the matter is that we were never meant to manifest the power of God,  to become successful. Because if we ever did manifest that power we would become to Independent and, in Saint Vic's mind, might no longer need him. So it was to his benefit to keep us in a cycle of failure which would keep us dependent on the ministry.

You would think God would want you to succeed and be a shining example of his love. Yet, the ministry was based on you failing.

This reminds me of a fallacious adage I’ve long despised: Those who can’t do, teach.

There is a kernel of truth in that otherwise unenlightened cliché. A tremendous kernel. That’s riiight.

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

https://reddit.com/r/cultsurvivors/s/KmD4qsE1Ye
 

Thanks.

It appears the first two comments were removed by mods. That must be discouraging for her.

I posted a comment on her subreddit post hoping to start a discussion. You have more insight and perspective than I on the workings of the cult. I hope you will consider participating.