Nathan_Jr

Dialogue between Dennis Hopper and Christopher Walken in True Romance (1993), directed by Tony Scott, written by Quentin Tarantino.

I didn't mean to be obscure or esoteric, but clearly I strayed too far off the path.

You can take it, Human.

Yes. I know. That quote, arguably, is from from one of Gary Oldman's finest performances. It could be said every performance of his is fine, but his character in this movie is especially memorable, so I thought.

Here's an another unforgettable, imo, scene from the same film, but not with Oldman. Surely, this is an easy movie quote.
 

: Could I have one of those Chesterfields now?

:: Sure.

: You got a match? Oh wait no no, don't bother. I got one. You're Sicilian, huh?

:: Yeah, Sicilian.

: You know, I read a lot. Especially about things in, uh, about history. I find that dang fascinating. Here's a fact, I don't know whether you know or not, Sicilians ... were spawned by niggers.

:: Come again? [laughs]

: It's a fact. You see, Sicilians have black blood pumpin' through their hearts. If you don't believe me, you can look it up. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago, you see, the Moors conquered Sicily. And the Moors are niggers.

:: Yes...

: So you see, way back then, uh, Sicilians were like, uh, wops from Northern Italy. Ah, they all had blonde hair and blue eyes, but, uh, well, then the Moors moved in there, and uh, well, they changed the whole country. They did so much ....in' with Sicilian women, huh? That they changed the whole bloodline forever. That's why blonde hair and blue eyes became black hair and dark skin. You know, it's absolutely amazing to me to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, that, uh, that Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. Now this...

No. Earlier.

: He must've thought it was white boy day. It ain't white boy day, is it?

: Naw, man. It ain't white boy day.

On 11/6/2023 at 10:51 PM, Human without the bean said:

"I've abandoned my child!!!   I've abandoned my child!!!  I've abandoned my boy!!! "

Daniel Day-Lewis as Daniel Plainview in There Will Be Blood. 

3 hours ago, chockfull said:

Ok this is stirring up remembering some language studies.  The point I remember was the imperative voice in verbs.  It is in koine Greek where Jesus does the Lord’s Prayer throughout all those verbs.  I don’t think the equivalent exists in Hebrew or Aramaic.

I don’t know if that equates to a passive voice in “let there be light”.  Maybe so.  Would Zeus say “Light” as a command?

I don’t have a burning need to make all the jigsaw puzzles fit.  I view the OT as primitive times technology wise and ethics wise.  So I accept the dichotomy of vision.

 

 

Yeah. Could be something. I vaguely remember the imperative mood discussed when analyzing the Lord’s Prayer.

What I DO vividly remember is a thinly veiled contempt for the Lord’s Prayer. If we were anywhere besides the fellowship commander’s own house, he would have spit on the floor while “teaching” that lesson.

Only sincere questions and honest inquiry were hated more than Jesus’ name and his prayer.

———/

I should say, though “let there be light” is not a literal word for word translation, because, well, Hebrew, it’s a totally badass rendering for my taste. Some kind of Jedi quality, maybe, but greater. I’ve always been drawn to that first chapter. And I don’t believe chapter two onward is of the same author. 

Someone made a comment on another board that permitted a feeling of hope in me, but it was fleeting. 

He said that English doesn't have a third person command like Greek. This was his reason for the translation "Let there be light" in Genesis, (which was written in Hebrew).

His comment gathered no traction. Credit goes to all the other posters for ignoring him.

Sounds exactly like something victor would say, but there might be a kernel in this idea. A tremendous kernel. I'm open, but remain unconvinced.

"He turned a blind eye," is a common idiom in English that seems related to, yet distinctly separate from (pros?), the theological "idiom of permission." 

I've been scouring the webs for an academic paper from a Hebrew scholar on Hebrew idioms. I found one that addresses many ancient Hebrew idioms, including several examples in 2 Samuel. It's an inexhaustible and excruciatingly technical dissertation, but no mention of the "idiom of permission." The author may have called it by another name or else alluded to it in another way, but I failed to bookmark the paper and will now have to re-search it. When I re-find it, I'll post the link.

I've seen several theological treatises and comments on message boards, but the song is same and the suspects are usual - Bullinger is often cited.

So far, I believe the idiom to be purely theological in nature and purpose, like the Trinity, or Unitarianism, or heaven and hell, or hyperdispensationalism. And, of course, this is just fine. 

“[vpw] occasionally would claim he worked all the error out of the works of others- but he did not. He seemed not to understand their work, and copied it over with errors intact.  So, Bullinger's errors got included (like thedifference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God)  and Leonard's errors got included (like the definitions of the manifestations),  and so on.  He moved some words around to make plagiarism less obvious, and made some things wordier, but did not improve upon their substance.”

This observable, demonstrable fact of actual reality is not mentioned enough. The plagiarism is frequently observed, sure, but the plagiarized errors and stupidities… wow.

it’s a different level of dishonesty. It’s willful ignorance. It’s contempt of truth.

All of this is unrighteous.

The apologist will rebuff with, “By what measure? Churchianity’s? Five senses realm? Man’s law?” These are but flimsy, rhetorical cop outs designed to deflect and distract.

No. vpw was unrighteous by the very measure of Righteousness itself.

Apples and oranges.

The idiom of permission makes the active passive, not the passive active.

“She flung the plate to the floor causing it to break.”

Literally, “The plate broke,” or, “she allowed it to break.” THIS is the idiom of permission.

Bullinger wrote, “Active verbs were used by the Hebrews to express not the doing of the thing, but the permission of the thing which the agent is said to do.”

Therefore, “God created the heavens and the earth” is accurately understood as, ”God permitted the creation of the heavens and the earth.” The accuracy of understanding comes with knowing that active verbs were used idiomatically.

That figures of speech are common in every language is mundanely obvious to me. I am asking: is this a common idiom or a theological one?

In the beginning Elohim permitted the creation of the heavens and the earth?

Right. An idiom is a figure of speech.

But how does one know to switch from the literal to the figurative? Only when Yahweh’s actions need smoothing?

Literal: “Yahweh caused him to stumble.”

Idiom of Permission: “Yahweh permitted his stumbling.”

But here?

Literal: ”Yahweh delivered them...”

Idiom of Permission: “Yahweh allowed them to be delivered…”

Does the idiom apply to ALL of Yahweh’s actions? 

There may be something to the proposition that Hebrew grammar allows for a passive shading of an active verb, but it leads to more questions.

What is the rule? How does one know when to use it? Does it only work for Yahweh? Does this rule apply to texts outside of the Torah? Or is it merely a theological coating to ease the swallowing of a difficult pill?

Do any of the early Church Fathers allude to this idiom?

A paper by a Hebrew scholar could be helpful.

7 minutes ago, Human without the bean said:

This one is way easier than it looks.  Most of the time the first three words "Whoever you are" are never quoted. But a famous movie quote, probably in the top 10 of most all time best movie lines quoted.

No Country for Old Men?

idk

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

 

I wonder if all of the followers of the Way approve of using their tithes to send postcard spam to every physical mail location of a grad in their “book of life” database.

 

 

I suspect they don’t mind at all.

They wouldn’t want to risk being accused of being grumbling, non-cheerful givers.

Also, something about the beleeef that standing with this “ministry” will profit them future rewards. 

That’s it. 

12 hours ago, Human without the bean said:

Of course.  The number one rated movie in a poll of 250 movies from voters on IMDB.  I don't agree with that but it is a fine movie.

It’s always a good time, no matter how often I’ve seen it. So satisfying. (Stephen King’s stories translate so well to the screen. He’s an underrated writer, IMO.)

“What do you mean I'm funny? What do you mean, you mean the way I talk? What? Funny how? What's funny about it? I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to ....in' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?”

On 10/22/2023 at 2:55 AM, Human without the bean said:

"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living, or get busy dying".

Shawshank Redemption 

Reading assessments have been on the decline in the U.S. since 2020. As much as I despise censorship and book banning, unintentional positive results may come of it.

I sought out and read many banned books as a kid in middle school and high school.

Few things motivate the youth quite like prohibition.

3 hours ago, cman said:

Christ is not something separated from us. 

I don't disagree.

If this is the case, then Christ's forgiveness is self forgiveness.

If Christ is present within, or, more emphatically, powerfully, Christ is inseparable from us, then the forgiver is the forgiven.

I don’t think it’s a game, either.

So being forgiven by Christ involves forgiving oneself? Or Christ’s forgiveness allows self forgiveness? Or Christ’s forgiveness effectuates self forgiveness?

Is forgiveness liberating? For whom?

If I have hurt my brother, but I repent and I change and I seek to amend and I seek forgiveness from him, but he still won’t forgive me, who remains in bondage?

If one is forgiven by another, yet still won’t forgive oneself, how powerful is the forgiveness from  another?

I’m not suggesting there is no power in another’s (Jesus’) forgiveness of our sins, but I am observing the brutality of self condemnation that may linger in spite of being forgiven by another. 

Victor and his sycophants play word games. It's foundational. Only a certain, precise, approved vocabulary will suffice. And only approved, often magically contrived, definitions are deemed accurate.

Three words were consistently derided while they were "teaching" me: Religion, Christian and Jesus. Theses words were rarely uttered at all, unless one had the urge to scratch an itch to scoff and disparage and condescend.

They insisted Wierwillian doctrine, TWI, and being within their "household" were NOT religious, rather, they were accuracy.

Here's Merriam-Webster's definition --

Religion

1: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

2: the service and worship of God or the supernatural

3: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

It seems to me, before asking whether wants organized or disorganized religion, one must ask: What is religion?