Nathan_Jr

Did Abraham misunderstand? (There's probably a glove for that.) One might expect him to be admonished for not understanding, for not listening and for not obeying what Yahweh actually said and meant. But, no, he was rewarded for doing exactly as commanded. The Sacrifice of Isaac (NET) 22 Some time after these things God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am!” Abrahamreplied. 2 God said, “Take your son—your only son, whom you love, Isaac—and go to the land of Moriah! Offer him up there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will indicate to you.” 3 Early in the morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took two of his young servants with him, along with his son Isaac. When he had cut the wood for the burnt offering, he started out for the place God had spoken to him about. 4 On the third day Abraham caught sight of the place in the distance. 5 So he said to his servants, “You two stayhere with the donkey while the boy and I go up there. We will worship and then return to you.” 6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and put it on his son Isaac. Then he took the fire and the knifein his hand, and the two of them walked on together. 7 Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father?” “What is it, my son?” he replied. “Here is the fire and the wood,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?” 8 “God will provide for himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son,” Abraham replied. The two of them continued on together. 9 When they came to the place God had told him about, Abraham built the altar there and arranged the woodon it. Next he tied up his son Isaac and placed him on the altar on top of the wood. 10 Then Abraham reached out his hand, took the knife, and prepared to slaughter his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called to him fromheaven, “Abraham! Abraham!” “Here I am!” he answered. 12 “Do not harm the boy!” the angel said. “Do not do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God because you did not withhold your son, your only son, from me.” 13 Abraham looked up and saw behind him a ram caught in the bushes by its horns. So he went over and got the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place “The Lord provides.” It is said to this day, “In the mountain of the Lord provision will be made.” 15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “I solemnly swear by my own name, decrees the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the starsin the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the strongholds of their enemies. 18 Because you have obeyed me, all the nations of the earth will pronounce blessings on one another using the name of your descendants.”

let, Let, LET me repeat this... Raf wrote, "Lesson: If God tells you to kill your kid, the morally correct answer is "NO YOU BLOOMING SOCIOPATH! I WILL NOT KILL MY SON! AND IF THAT'S YOUR IDEA OF A TEST, I'D BETTER HAVE PASSED BY SAYING NO, YOU SICK THUCK!" But no, Abraham is the HERO of this story. Unless he were alive today. Someone kills their kid today and says God told them to do it, you KNOW he's psychotic, no questions asked. But it happens in the desert 5,000 years ago and you're supposed to say "What Incredible Faith!" NO!"

Ah, but Yahweh allowed the satan and his princes to do it. It's an idiom. Math, see? Tailoring. Bespoke baby deer skin gloves. If I allow my toddler to walk into the street, if I sit on the curb sipping a beer while watching him get run over by a car, as if watching a football game, who is responsible? What should I say? "That'll teach these people to drive cars on the street." No! I'll tell you what killed that little boy.

Since I was a child I’ve wondered the same. Yahweh had to pay himself with the life of his only begotten to forgive a debt? He was the creditor, he held the note, but he paid himself? With his only begotten son’s life? Now everyone must feel guilty and submit? What passive aggression! WTF? How does this even make sense? As a father myself, I can think of no deed more wicked than murdering my own son as a means to… accomplish… … ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!

I suspect he means natural, physical, mammalian death. What was it like before I was were born? I don’t know. I don’t remember. So, I am not afraid of death. I won’t even know that I’m dead.

Didn’t he have something to do with that “spiritual” Ghost Busters book? All that ectoplasm and other such pseudo-scientific bullshonta?

I didn't remember. I should watch it again myself. It has been a few years.

The Sharpton debate is my least favorite, because, well, Sharpton. If you can tolerate William Lane Craig's grating tone, that one is decent. Hitch always said Dinesh D'Souza was his most formidable opponent - those debates are good and lively. There are many more worth watching, but the one with Frank Turek is the most fun for me.

Use the original definitions as they were intended. Don't let context distort your understanding.

Sorry for the confusion. I assure you, we are on the same page. As the saying goes, if the shoe fits, wear a glove. Mmmph.

The question is: What is the difference between a duck? Most people say, between a duck and what? Those people don’t understand the question. Waysider understands perfectly. He answered with a mathematical accuracy and a scientific precision not know since…

Don’t overthink this.

This reminds me of one of my favorite exchanges between Hitch and a zealot…

Is that like asking: What’s the difference between a duck?

Oh, those words are attributed to Jesus? (I admit to not reading The Apocalypse of John of Patmos carefully enough.) Who says the Nazarene said? John of Patmos? Let me guess, he had a vision. Riiiiight…

Says who? Pleasing unto which lord? Plus, to/for. ThIs was written TO the angel of the ekklesia in Laodicea. It was not written TO you.

Thanks, Socks. The root Sbq is shared between Hebrew and Aramaic. It could mean kept/spared/permit/forgive/leave/abandon... Hebrew and Aramaic are very close siblings in the Semitic family. The transliterated Aramaic phrase in the gospels is identical to the transliterated Hebrew of the exact same phrase in the OT. Psalm 22 is the reference. Jesus' cry in Aramaic is a direct quote of the of Psalm 22:1. Virtually every detail described in Mark's passion narrative is found in the following verses. It's as if the evangelist had on his lap while composing his gospel an unfurled scroll of the psalm. (Candidate for Fourth Man sermon?) The "why...?" is rhetorical. It's not a declaration of God's abandonment. The cry is urging the crowd to continue singing the rest of the hymn, which is vindicating and triumphant at the end. Really, a beautiful and powerful psalm! So it seems to me. And others. I didn't come up with it on my own. It seems so simple - like a well-tailored glove. TWI seems to be solving a problem that doesn't exist for the sake of novelty. A real stretch. But, hey, I didn't write the book. There's more, but for now, that's it. Thanks for clarifying TWI's position, Socks. I'm sure others have a take on this...

Yep. I think that was the point Waysider was making earlier. A good point.

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/infancythomas-hock.html With a wave of his hand Jesus strikes down that tattletale kid, everyone freaks, but he ultimately straightens that kid out and everything is cool in the end. I love this story!

Some consider the story of Jesus casting demons into pigs causing the death of 2000 valuable livestock near the Sea of Galilee, where people were likely living hand-to-mouth, a historical record. The same will not consider the story of Jesus animating clay sparrows to life part of the historical record. Both are fantastically weird and awesome stories! But historical records?

Not at all, unless you consider sorcery a good thing. But some call it a record, to your point.

Here are two “records” of magic, sorcery, or, if preferred, miracles, performed by Jesus. Which one is fiction? By what standard? When this boy, Jesus, was five years old, he was playing at the ford of a rushing stream. He was collecting the flowing water into ponds and made the water instantly pure. He did this with a single command. He then made soft clay and shaped it into twelve sparrows. He did this on the sabbath day, and many other boys were playing with him. But when a Jew saw what Jesus was doing while playing on the sabbath day, he immediately went off and told Joseph, Jesus' father: "See here, your boy is at the ford and has taken mud and fashioned twelve birds with it, and so has violated the sabbath." So Joseph went there, and as soon as he spotted him he shouted, "Why are you doing what's not permitted on the sabbath?" But Jesus simply clapped his hands and shouted to the sparrows: "Be off, fly away, and remembe' me, you who are now alive!" And the sparrows took off and flew away noisily. The Jews watched with amazement, then left the scene to report to their leaders what they had seen Jesus doing. ……………. Jesus asks the demon for his name and is told, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” The demons beg Jesus not to send them away, but instead to send them into the pigs on a nearby hillside, which he does. The herd, about two thousand in number, rush down the steep bank into the sea and are drowned.

How does TWI's doctrinal glove of a spared Jesus on the cross fit the Christian hand of Christ crucified? What is their logic? How do they MAKE the errant Lamsa translation fit? From what do they claim Jesus was spared? Certainly not torture and execution. And how should one believe God raised Jesus from the dead if he was spared death?

I should know the answer to my own question by now, but… Really? Or are you joking?

Damn, this rocks me every time. I know you've mentioned this before, but I can't remember if your roommate was in FL with you.