Nathan_Jr

I can agree that the word is not that. HOWEVER, Words are useful when we want to convey meaning. Words are useful for understanding. Words are useful to persuade. You talk about "true repentance." What do you mean? Will you please use your words so I might understand?

A question I've been contemplating: Is obedience love? Mike and victor seem to want to equate obedience with love. But obedience is about respect and honor. Love is something else, is it not? Does love fear reprisal? Does love expect reward?

I thought the thread was started to explore love in general, what it means, what it is. The opening post cites secular, biblical, and cultic propositions. Inevitably, such a discussion will include philosophical, religious, humanistic, scientific, psychological, biblical... perspectives.

If I have to explain, the effectual power with impact will be lost. Someone here claimed that victor's ministry was not really about research. The claim is victor's was a verification ministry. But when one starts to verify what victor spoke and wrote, one finds out just how wrong he was about damn near everything. How wrong, you might ask? Dead wrong That's how.

Charity, I'm not saying you are wrong, but either you didn't absorb it fully the first time or you forgot. victor revealed rest and ceasing work are inaccurate translations of the most difficult radicals in the Hebrew language. According to victor, Sabbath is sitting, not ceasing. He should know. victor studied eighteen hours per day for forty years. If anyone knew Hebrew, victor did. If victor said it, it is settled. victor was the seventh THE man of god. Six came before him. victor put oil on the head of the one who came after him, the eighth THE man of god. Read that again. Oil. OIL!!!

I can leave my wallet at home and buy gas and groceries at Kroger and Whole Foods with my phone. Amazon started developing a cashless/cardless/scan-less grocery store a few years ago. No registers, no scanners, no payment processors. Walk in, load your cart, bag your own goods, walk out. Billing for everything is automatic through your Amazon account. They know what you got. They know where you are. They know who you are. Cameras are everywhere. Literally. Actually. Cash is difficult to track. Invisibility and anonymity are luxuries purchased with cash only.

Entreating people to embrace the words of a con man? Could that be more loving?

"And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money." Exodus 21:7-11

Free radicals are easy to forget.

The Word means a lot of things. For some it can mean anything. YourBelieving+YourWalk+TheBible+ChristInYou. "Will" has synonyms. The explicit and implicit meanings vary. Logos is Greek for word. But it's not as simple as it appears. Pinning down the concept of logos is a winding and cavernous endeavor. And then there's God. What is meant? Depends on who you ask. "God's word is God's will" is a loaded, pithy phrase, insidiously designed to seduce.

That poor man didn't understand the meaning of Sabbath. It means to sit. sit, Sit, SIT!! If he had only been gathering sticks while sitting, he could have avoided the stoning.

When? 1000 B.C.? 700 B.C.? 300 B.C? 200 B.C.? Who are they? Who is making copies? I would love to read more about this. What is your source for this claim?

No one is painted into a corner. Literally, no one.

He is his own rainbow.

Jesus Christ says loving God is like like loving your neighbor which is like loving yourself. Love completely. Who is your neighbor? How do you love him? Jesus answers these questions in a parable that must have been difficult for his listeners to understand. But for those with eyes to see and ears to hear it is a lesson on how. H O W

MIKE "When Jesus cited the greatest commandment, he was quoting from a most pivotal and important scripture for his audience. Deut 6:1-12" Indeed, the reference is to Deut 6:5, not this whole passage. This one verse is a distinct commandment to Israel among several in this section. Obey all of Yahweh's laws without exception or else. Obey and get prosperous. Love Yahweh with all your heart, soul and strength. Put those two commandments on your heart, let them permeate every facet of your life. Don't forget Yahweh when you take possession of land and resources developed by others. "Paraphrasing: You love God by loving His words and saturating your life with them." Nope. That's not a paraphrase. It's not EVEN a paraphrase. "And a little followup for us Christians with: 1 John 5:1-3 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome..." If you love God, you love his children; to love the Son is to love the Father. To keep the commandments of the Father is to keep the commandments of the Son. There are two great ones and they are like each other. Neighbors are involved, not just fellow believers. So much of this epistle is about what it means to know Jesus the Christ and to keep his commandments to love one another. To love completely is to know Christ. This will manifest in righteousness. Except He didn't. He just didn't. Don't take my word for it. Read it for yourself. Hey, I didn't write the book! To assert such a fantasy is tantamount to victor's scatological play with the mouth of God.

I knew there was a need for this topic, especially in light of the fountainous bullshonta developing in the other thread. Thank you, Charity, for starting it. This resonates. I think this may be foundational to sociopathy and associated personality disorders like NPD and BPD. This resonates with me, as well. Thank you. ------ Love is NOT conditional, transactional. Love is complete acceptance of what actually is, not what we want or hope something to be. This is especially true for love of self, something I've struggled with my entire life.

Of course. It would be exactly his style. He said a lot of things people didn't understand. The Gospels show and tell how the people, even his own disciples, didn't understand him.

And I submit this knowing of the truth of this deception is a seeing of the truth. Whether one sees it within the first few minutes of PFAL, or one catches a glimpse in the mirror years later, or one endeavors to test every piece of bullshonta over a lifetime, for each it is the same. It is an instantaneous, bell-ringing clarity of vision. It is NOT a belief. It is not even knowledge. Once seen, it cannot be unseen.

Never mind, Mike. I think I figured it out. There is no way "their words; their will" answers a how (H-O-W) question. That's just not how (H-O-W) language works. Meaning matters. It could only answer the what question. For you. You think to love is to serve. If that's what love means to you, then your answer fits yourself... ... like a hand in a glove.

Is this the answer to your how (H-O-W) question? Or is it the answer to your what question?

“The Word” means a lot of things. There’s probably a thread for that. Is there any doubt what victor and TWI mean when they say The Word? Do they not mean the Bible, specifically, the Wierwille Revised Version (WRV)? Bibliolatry, indeed. Because the mantra is decidedly NOT “The Light, the light, the light, and nothing but the light…The Love, the love, the love, and nothing but the love…”

People used to tell me that the birth of my son would change my life. However they described it, however they explained it, that was not it. Their words were insufficient. You are a mother. You might know what I'm talking about. It is something that cannot be explained or contained conceptually. It is indescribable, is it not? We are so eager to have someone else provide answers. We want someone else to see it for us. We want someone else to tell us what to do. No one can see it for you. Trust. But don't trust me.

Truth cannot be found. It is not to be attained. Truth is nothing to be possessed. But all the priests, gurus and teachers will happily take your money, honor and devotion in exchange for a comfortable package of knowledge you can hold in your brain or in their books. Then you say, "I've got it! I found it!" Truth cannot be held. The one claiming to HAVE the Truth is surely the one who does not. Truth is to be seen. It can be seen by anyone with eyes to see.

Yeah, that's an interesting question. The less practiced I am, the more conscious effort seems to be in play. It could be that I'm aware of my deficiency and am making an effort to choose the right words, tenses, conjugations, etc. Generally, the effort tends to be counterproductive. When I used to speak it regularly, daily, whether in class or living in Central America, it was effortless. No thought.