Nathan_Jr

That flame of the whirling sword (literal) in Genesis was set to protect the Tree of Life after man was banished. But, I guess one could read into it that it protected the Tree of Life for later, thus protecting man... hey! A glove! That sword might have been more effectually protective of man had it been deployed earlier. It could have cut off Adam and Eve's hands right after they were formed/made/created to prevent them from... well, you know. But I guess that's just another example of God limiting himself.

I’m reading Daniel now, and it’s a lot of fun! That furnace scene always gives me goosebumps It seems to be a patchwork of at least two different authors or interpolators, but that’s just a hunch right now. Different gods, too! There are Yahweh, El Elyon, and others. I’m enjoying the NASB version right now. Just a quick first read before reading again for absorption. I’m surprised victor paul wierwille, charlatan, would want anyone reading this book. Lots in there for our learning that directly contradicts victor’s cookie recipes. His private interpretation of Romans 13 is effectually contradicted. At least two of his walking keys are throughly smashed: tongues are a prerequisite for revelation, and revelation received twice is revelation established.

"If our wants are light and our needs are heavy, we will never get an answer [from God]." -- Orange Book p. 19-21 Victor limited God right there where he wrote it. He meant what he wrote and he wrote what he meant. No logic. No scriptural proof text to back up his fantasy. Just... a cookie and a jar. Hey! I didn't write the book. Mike was taught fantastical theories are legitimate theories. You've got to MAKE it fit, especially when it doesn't. So, if one is unwilling to go beyond what one is taught, then, yeah, after 63 pages it will still be "WAY too early to crank logic."

Mmmph Only three, not five, pages. It’s all that’s available. Three, not five. Three short, exceedingly abundant, parallel pages. Just… …mmmph

Angels get no respect, but it was an angel who changed the course of history when Abraham needed to be steered from murdering his own precious son. God was in one of his devilish, evil moods, I guess, when he commanded such a wicked act of Abraham. Thank goodness that angel appeared in the nick of time. How would the rest of the story played out had he not?

The comment about God appearing like the devil made me think of this one: Gold Leaves Lo! I am come to autumn When all the leaves are gold; Grey hairs and golden leaves cry out The year and I am old. In youth I sought the prince of men, Captain in cosmic wars, Our Titan, even the weeds would show Defiant, to the stars. But now a great thing in the street Seems any human nod, Where shift in strange democracy The million masks of God. In youth I sought the golden flower Hidden in wood or wold, But I am come to autumn When all the leaves are gold.

I am reminded of a G. K. Chesterton poem…

Mmmph

“I was referring to how [YourWalk+ChristInYou+Bible+YourBelieving] says there are twice as many…”

I wonder how an infinite power can impose a limit on itself. Does infinite power have room for limits? Once a power limits itself, is it still infinite? Was it ever? Can infinite mind even conceive of limitations? Can a finite mind conceive of infinity? Who devised these gods?

Bless your heart. I wish you could read it in the original. mmmph

I came across this one while looking for another astonishingly errant "teaching." I couldn't get past minute 1:20. This is what I mean when I say the errors literally jump off the page and leap out of his mouth. One does not need to look for stupidity. It is self-evident, and you can't fix it - it is forevah. Hebrew verbs have a consonantal root or stem. Most verbs stems have three consonants, some have four. A radical is a consonantal root - a consonant. The three radicals in question are not the hardest. They are regular consonants. שָׁבַת The verb is transliterated shabath. Sound familiar? It means rest or cease or desist. It means stop working. I does NOT literally mean sat. Even victor's favorite FREE translation, The Amplified Bible, from which he copied abundantly for "Literal Translation According to Usage," does not get as imaginative and creative as he does here. Notice the histrionics. If he repeats "sat" enough times, people will ignore the error and just beleeeve it. Hey! I didn't write the book.

That evidence is not in the budget.

Mmmph. You are so bad at this hide and seek game, Irony, silly goose! I see you. Much has been written throughout these forums on the development of the unbiblical no debt doctrine and the wicked depths to which Loy took it. TWI still requires it today for wowzers and CORPS, IIRC. I don't remember it in PFAL, but that doesn't mean it's not there. It was a hugely important doctrine for my fellowship commander who still masturbates to the imaginary 1942 promise. Because of this, I"m inclined to believe it started with Vic. Did this error originate with victor paul wierwille, charlatan? Or did it originate with Loy? A simple statement of fact will suffice. Many thanks.

Mein Kamf was mentioned. That reminds me of the story of those boys in southern Mississippi who learned of the atrocities of the Nazi party in the 1930s and 1940s. These good ol boys of southern Mississippi learned that Nazis were German and the German Nazi leader was a fellow named Adolf. These good ol boys learned all this on the internet, mostly through this one chat forum run by Jews who were survivors of Adolf’s Nazi atrocities so long ago, These good ol boys were motivated by a righteous sensibility to execute some cosmic justice, so they drove to New Orleans to target and beat up everyone they could find of German descent, including the children. Now, one must remember where these boys were coming from. They weren’t the sharpest hammers in the bag. All Nazis might be German, but not all Germans are Nazis. That was an unimaginable concept for these boys from Mississippi. All told, 183 innocent German-American New Orleanians were assaulted and battered during a rampage that lasted six months. I’m happy to report, justice was meted out with a precision and swiftness never seen by the historically corrupt courts of Louisiana. A jury of their peers convicted and sentenced those Jews for operating that internet message board. They were ordered pay $217M in compensatory and punitive damages and serve 15 years supervised probation. Halleluja! And some say justice for all is a dead dream in America. Some just aren’t paying attention. mmmph

This would fit well in the determinism free will thread. Blame them for swinging the spoon. You would be a spoon swinger blamer. They made that choice and have yet to figure it out. They can wake up and choose to stop swinging spoons just like Charlene and Waysider did. I have never suggested anyone is absolved of responsibility. It is complicated. The victim participates. The victim must wake up and make a move. The victim owns his choice to stay or go. The victim shall be responsible for his actions. The victim need not perpetuate the cycle of abuse. You were a victim of this abuse. Do you hit your own son with a spoon? The narc is the first victim. The abuser is the abused. She was a child when it started. You’ve accurately pointed this out. But that does not mean the narc is without blame or responsibility. It just explains why or how. It’s something to be understood. It’s not a pass. And she knows exactly what she is doing. She knows just the right candidate to target. She has no self awareness, but she has awareness of others. She hates goodness. It is the opposite of how she sees herself. She is committed to the destruction of that person she had no chance to become. The abuser and the abused are both responsible. But the abuser will not own responsibility, so it’s up to the abused to make a choice, act and end the cycle. How and why does anyone find themselves in this kind of relationship? You are asking that, right? It’s complicated, but it does have something to do with emotional and psychological vulnerability to being seduced into codependency. Even stupidity and a willingness to beleeeve play parts. You’ve asked, which is more important, reason or emotion? My answer is yes.

Wow. I did not say that at all.

It’s just… so… Accurate! mmmph

The subjectivity of gaslighting doesn’t make it any less real. One’s perception of reality becomes distorted over time. The manipulation is subtle, incremental, imperceptible. The victim or target or (choose a word) does not actively participate in the way you seem to suggest. The manipulated cannot or does not see he is participating in being manipulated. Or, if he does see it, he has been manipulated not to trust what he sees. That’s why it’s called manipulation. And it is psychologically violent abuse. The subjective perception of others choosing to blame the victim or target or (choose a word) compounds and perpetuates this abuse. This victim blaming is unintentional gaslighting by the (choose a word) blamer. But when one finally wakes up to what is going on (see Waysider’s post), one can freely take back one’s lost sanity. One can break out of the psychological prison. We do choose our behavioral responses to emotions. The manipulated don’t realize they are making these choices. When the veil is lifted, when we are awakened by the lightning strike, we start to see this, and we start to change our choices and behavior. Sanity is lost, destroyed. Not leveraged - correction.

Exaggerated which way? Down? The most important day in the history of histories of religious corporations “drew a crowd” of only 600 people from all over the U.S… AND other countries. 900 dupes completed (completely?) “their nine month tenure” mostly in countries shown to be ripe Petri dishes for cult (political/religious) development. Cameroon? The Congos? Venezuela?!?! Umm… wow? Jesse Duplantis must be shaking in his baby white tiger skin boots.

This.

Gaslighting is violence. Sanity is leveraged.

I don't think the effectual burning of bridges in this context is a consciously, deliberately developed skill. It happens incrementally, subtly, over time, and it's never obvious to the bridge burner they are good at burning bridges until they are all burnt. It's not a learned technique then forgotten. It's crazy. It is not logical. I expected to get cancelled by the narc. That was neither the problem nor the horror. To your clarified point about legal enforcement of leverage, yes, that is part of the equation. It can prolong the toxic relationship. Even when the target leaves, willfully, happily, the contact with the narc must continue because of a child. The child is then weaponized by the narc against her target, punishment for seeing the truth, punishment for cutting off the supply, a final strike to destroy the target once and for all before anyone else finds out the truth. Yes, the horror.

Legal authorities are the only ones with leverage? After the cult or narcissist has led one to abandon all friends and family and education and career, where will one go? Where is one’s support? Leverage. Mental tricks are designed to distort reality. The prison feels real, even if it’s a state of mind.

If being in a cult is anything like being in a relationship with a narcissist, one may feel trapped, imprisoned. So, escape makes sense. There are synonyms for escape. It's a word choice.