Nathan_Jr

Tenacity is the salve for cognitive dissonance.

Beleeeving is so important when ignoring errors. I mean, above all, stand. Hey! I didn’t write the book. Got to MAKE it fit, even when it doesn’t.

Something about a lost teaching urging dupes to focus on the victor’s written materials.

“I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books.“

Surely

Thanks, Charlene! Excellent little interview. Had me laughing out loud at the familiar absurdity of it all. And congratulations on the honor from FAPA. From the interview: I think we were willing to brush off his mistakes because we really believed we should keep our focus on God’s Word, not Wierwille’s human errors. However, I know editors who tore out their hair trying to fix Wierwille’s transcribed sermons, making them presentable to print in The Way Magazine and in Way books. In general, we didn’t want to appear too sophisticated because Wierwille often scoffed at educated people, accusing them of being on ego trips. Dr. (Hello, Irony! I seeee yooouuu.)

Thanks. He most certainly does.

I think about this everyday, because it is very real for me and my son. I challenge him. Anything he says that I discern as regurgitating the thoughts or dogma of peers, deluded adults, media, wierwillian stupidity... I ask him questions, I challenge him, I challenge the dogma, the opinions. I don't necessarily provide answers, because he gets enough "answers." The questions are what others are NOT "teaching" him. Even if I agree with an idea he regurgitates, I ask him, "Says who? How did they come up with that? How do they know? How do YOU know? Why is the opposite false? Why? How?..." I try to challenge him to think about ideas, their source, what they mean. He sees and hears so much of WHAT. What to believe, to think, to know. So I challenge him to think about WHY he should accept any of it. I don't always tell him outright WHAT to think, rather, I try to help him HOW to think. I try. Occasionally, he will text me something he sees on social media. And he will simply ask, "BS?" This always warms my heart. He is 13. I always provide an answer. I haven't yet taught him how to correctly spell beleeef, but one day I will.

"Belonging researchers" seem to be unsure what they mean or need to mean. Moveable goalposts help to divert the attention. Verbosity further distracts. I asked very early on, some 2K posts ago, why we feel the need to belong to anything. Similar answers were given then as now: We are social beings with an innate desire to belong. Indeed, we are social beings. But WHY do we desire to belong to a group? Why do we clutch and cling to something outside ourselves for strength? Can we participate in a group without attachment, without identifying with that group? What do we lack? Are we lonely? Insecure? Are we uncomfortable being alone? Must relationship with another imply attachment? Is love transactional? Must we identify with a group, a family, an ideology to feel whole, secure, strong? Can we pay attention to this? Can we look deeply at this? Are we truly aware of ourselves? I didn't fit in with my fellowship because I didn't DESIRE anything from them. They CLAIMED I NEEDED their ideology. They saw me as weak because I wouldn't submit and BELONG to their group identity. They resented that I could be so generous, kind, tolerant, forgiving, and at peace. My strength and identity and self worth was not dependent on my belonging to the "family" of the household of the word according to the bloody gloves of wierwille's demonstrably false private interpretations. I didn't need to be validated through belonging to their cult. I belonged to nothing, I attached to nothing. At least, I tried to pay attention to this. Fear is not of the unknown. Fear is of losing the known, the knowledge put together by the thoughts of man. Fear, emotional immaturity, weakness motivates attachment.

"While Baumeister and Leary were unable to recall why they chose the word “belong,” the more clunky “need to be accepted and belong” may be clearer, as is “the desire for social connections with both people and people in a group.” Belonging researchers also need greater agreement on terminology, measures, and definitions to create greater clarity around the implications of their findings for schools. They also need to improve how they communicate their findings to a broader audience." To build strong children reinforce their sense of desire for social connections with both people and people in a family by articulating exactly what is distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride “Our family rightly divides the word.”

We agree that it is an emotional condition, but I see it as a false sense of strength and not at all emotionally mature nor emotionally intelligent. The way I see it, a sense of belonging is a seductive illusion. it is a form of attachment that can devolve into codependency. The emotionally mature pays attention and is aware of the risk. Take the child raised in a family loyal to the "teachings" of victor paul wierwille. Surely, it is incumbent on this family to reinforce the child's sense of belonging. The child finds strength in identifying with the distinctiveness of the family. He is strong and maturing in the word, he is told. He is IN fellowship. He feels a sense of pride rightly dividing -- this is distinctive to what his family DOES. His identification with his family is comfortable, it is safe, it is warm, it is protective, it is strengthening. This reinforced identification with his family is not a sign of maturity or intelligence, rather, it is attachment. It is identification with something outside of himself that, though strong, is unhealthy. He is so emotionally strong, convinced, that the need to find an outside group to fulfill a desire for a sense of belonging is precluded.

I am, indeed, trying to understand your intended meaning. It's not a meme if the intended meaning has to be explained. I've addressed your intended meaning and have asked questions to advance the discussion. I'm not fighting with you. I just disagree with the proposition that strong children are made by reinforcing a sense of belonging and championing the distinctiveness of that sense of belonging. Though, I agree that emotional maturity has to do with inner peace and strength, we disagree that it is advanced through reinforcing a sense of belonging. I hope to always pay attention to this desire for sense of belonging. Does a desire for a sense of belonging reinforce emotional maturity? Or can one even experience a healthy sense of belonging before reaching emotional maturity? Is inner peace dependent of a sense of belonging to something outside ourselves? Or is inner peace a contentment that is not dependent on any variable or desire? A risk of seeking and finding inner peace and strength through reinforcing a sense of belonging is codependency and loss of individual identity. Conditions I hope we can agree is not the fruit of emotional maturity or emotional intelligence.

I'll ask, again, is emotional maturity and strength and inner peace built up by a sense of belonging? This is what I am questioning. This is where we disagree. And that is ok. It's not a matter of lack of curiosity or explanation. Agreed. Is reinforcing a sense of belonging emotional strength? Or is it a step towards codependency? It seems to me the emotionally intelligent can see this potential pitfall and pay attention to attachments. Those with inner peace and strength and emotional maturity do not feel the need to belong to any group, the need to find strength outside themselves. Perhaps the quoted text doesn't stand alone so well outside the context of the book. Maybe it's not an effective meme. To build strong children reinforce their sense of belonging to a family by articulating exactly what is distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride “Our family does X.”

I reread that meme several times. Sorry, Rocky, I‘m still not seeing the point about emotional or social intelligence. I don’t think I missed anything. Here it is again: To build strong children reinforce their sense of belonging to a family by articulating exactly what is distinctive about your family. They should be able to say with pride “Our family does X.” The more I read this, the angrier I get. This is the kind of wicked ideological bullshonta cults propagate. I can hear the fellowship commander uttering a very close variant of this right now. We can agree to disagree.

Is that the point of the meme? I missed that part.

Not at all. My issue is with the presumption that strong children are those who champion and cling to the distinctiveness of their families. For my son to pridefully say, "My family lo shontas the crowing cocks all day long, and, additionally, we possess the truth like it hasn't been know since..." does not make him strong. I disagree with the postulate. I'm not arguing. Is self worth dependent on belonging to any group? It seems we have a desire to belong. Can we teach our children to be strong enough, self aware enough, with enough self worth to go it alone when the group or ideology fails them or when the family dies? What do the Stoics say about desire? What do they say about the desire to belong? The Taoists say to extinguish desire. I think a lot of kids were caught up in a desire to belong to something in the 1970s that they perceived as distinctive... enter GSC.

Through my conditioned eyes I can see distinctive differences among these children: race, gender, ethnicity, physical disability, genetic chromosomal disorder... When these children are asked about the differences between each other... well, you'll have to watch for yourself. The video is a whopping 49 seconds long! As they grow older, they are bound to be conditioned and indoctrinated with beleeef. They will never see as clearly as they do now.

I can't agree with this. It sounds like a strategy for cultivating division and alienation. As children make their way through the world, they will see for themselves what is distinctive about their own family and what is distinctive about others. My son has two families: His mother's, a family built on the sand of wierwillian indoctrination, blindness and insularity; and his dad's, who is always having to remind him not to beleeeve anyone and find out for himself. I hope he doesn't think tribalism is something to be proud of. Mankind is so divided. Beleeef is to blame. I hope he can learn to quiet his mind and simply look, observe. I will be distinctively proud of him if only he can do that.

All 72 pages... just... ...Mmmph!

Well done, Word Wolf. Thanks.

John Lynn wrote, astonishingly: As a fellow PFAL grad, I identify with you, and have an affinity for you and a desire to encourage you to take advantage of the truth you once heard, if you are not already doing so. Along with me, you will one day stand before our precious Lord Jesus Christ, who will reward you according to how you have lived your life as a Christian. In essence, he will ask each of us something like this: “What did you do with what you knew?” After the shock abates and the laughter subsides, pity sets sets in, and, finally, compassion... mmmph Mmmmph!

Merge this with the false accusation thread. mmmph

I'll forgive you for not remembering. Of all cognitive tiers memory is the lowest and most overrated. Apparently, a music coordinator told Johniam about T7TMOG. Hey! I didn't write the book! The music coordinator said it, Johniam beleeeves it, that settles it. Here's the thread: Kuala Lumpur carne asada!

Another false accusation. He was nothing of the sort. Not even close. Marcona alameda