Charity

Thanks Twinky, I just saw your reply and am reading the website now.

Not to belabor the point, but I don't remember it being this blatant before I left twi in 1986. Did it or did it begin with lcm some time after the "fog years? I mean, they've added [God] after the word "Lord" in Acts 2:21! ("And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved.") A simple check on Bible Hub's interlinear site, not to mention every version out there, shows this to be wrong. Sorry, but I'm just in a state of unbelief, but I'll get over it - where's my hot chocolate?!!!

I just haven't seen this type of blatant deceit before but then again, I haven't read anything by twi in decades. So this Lord [God] isn't new for them?

What the heck? Never seen this before. I spied something in the article "Reconciliation is Available to Whosoever Believes" (pg. 8 twi's latest mag). When did the Lord become "the Lord [God] in twi? The author wrote, "This salvation is available through Jesus Christ to whoever calls on the name of the Lord our God and believes." Then he quotes Acts 2:21 as, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved." Soon after he quotes Romans 10:13 as, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [God] shall be saved." Is this a recent fabrication from twi's new research team? Later on, the article says, "Ananias initially had some concerns about reaching out to Saul as he had heard of his terrible reconciliation. But God reassured Ananias, and he responded obediently to God. This is then immediately contradicted when Acts 9:17 is quoted correctly, "And Ananias went his way and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, has sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost [holy spirit].” God is not the author of confusion, so what the h*ll is this?

I admit I have never watched The Blues Brothers but that is an incredibly entertaining scene!

I don't know if I'm just mentally tired , but I can't wrap my head around the above at the moment. Comparing it, however, to the simplicity with which twi sneaks their erroneous doctrine into the article "Abraham and Sarah" (found on pg. 18 of their latest mag) is interesting. In a number of verses, they give the definition of "faith" (which is a noun) as meaning "believing" (which is a verb). Examples: regarding Abraham in Rom 4:19, the author writes, "And being not weak in faith [believing], he considered not..." In Hebrews 11:11, the articles says, "Through faith [manifestation of believing] also Sarah herself received strength..." (bold lettering is mine) It's so subtle that I didn't even catch it until I got near to the end of the article where the author concludes, "Abraham and Sarah established a legacy of believing that continues to this day - both their names are recorded in Hebrew, chapter 11, which has been referred to 'The Believers' Hall of Fame.' You and I continue that legacy in our time as the children of Abraham by believing." (underlining is mine) Faith (or trust), as a noun, is something we have and our faith is in God who is faithful (reliable). Believing, however, is an action that focuses on us and according to twi's law of believing, it is what we must do in order to receive the promises of God. So twi's doctrinal error about "pistis" continues to pollute people's minds as in the old days.

Thank you OldSkool.

I agree wholeheartedly. Way to go Christ and OldSkool .

I think you are very uncomfortable with reading my post because you are very uncomfortable with intimacy even when that intimacy is with the one who suffered and died personally for you, the one who understands all the crap we hide ourselves in. This deep discomfort is because of fear Mike - it is what I lived so much in throughout my entire life - before, during and after twi. It took Christ a long time to be able to reach him, but praise God he has.

Even after I say there's no point in discussing things with Mike, I still feel the desire or need to shine some light and truth on what he says - not so much for him because he doesn't want to see it, but for others, especially new people, who read his posts. On my walk outside just now, I talked to Christ about all those still blinded by twi, those who are hurting in twi, those who have left twi but are still hurting and those who, like me, are beginning to heal or like others who are continuing to heal years after leaving twi. GSC is one way Christ can lead people into the way, and the truth and the life which is to himself.

Then again, Jesus might have done something like a Matthew 21:12-13 if he saw this. 12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’”

50 years ago, I would have eagerly bought into this and scooped me up one of those d*mn bronze desks. Now, I would put a wooden plaque next to it which said "Jesus wept." It' just all so sad when you compare what twi offers to the reality of Christianity being relationship based - not to a man or his books - but with God our Father and Christ our Lord.

Thanks WordWolf. This is so insane I've got to think there's a miniscule chance he was playing with us. If not, it does give me reason to worry big time about him.

Thank you for that bit of info . I had never heard of this idea before so I searched the word "orange". The orange book shows up a lot in "Dr's Last Teaching - LOST for 17 Years!" thread. Very interesting - I'll catch up on the posts I've missed later today. It looks like I'll need a nice mug of hot chocolate for some comfort though.

Yeah, you got me. Just some rhetorical questions to bring things back to Christ and our relationship with him.

Hi OldSkool, I need to clarify something. When I said, "The sentences I highlighted in black makes me wonder for Christians who grew up spiritually under this paradigm and believed in it for many years, just how challenging it is to get out from under such a burdensome mantle of responsibility placed on to us through twi," I wasn't talking about physically growing up in the ministry. Sorry, my bad. I was referring to Christians whose walk in Chris began with their involvement in twi - when they learned early on that their relationship with God was all wrapped up in the law of believing in order to receive anything from Him. Regardless, may Christ lead all of us who have left twi into a relationship with the Father that is based on love. Jeremiah 31:13

It would be nice to hear you talk more about the "ever present Christ, spiritually with in us." What does this mean to you? Other than being inside us, how do you fellowship with Christ throughout the day?

I hope a loving 2-way relationship with Christ as our Lord is one of them.

One last thing Mike - where is Christ in all of this?

Regarding your last paragraph (which I find to be very powerful), I've noticed you often write about a personal relationship between us and God and Christ, with Godly love being the bond that holds it all together. The sentences I highlighted in black makes me wonder for Christians who grew up spiritually under this paradigm and believed in it for many years, just how challenging it is to get out from under such a burdensome mantle of responsibility placed on to us through twi. On a different thread, T-Bone shared this from the article, "What Does It Mean To 'Change The Narrative'? - Step By Step Parents" - "Basically, what this means is that our FEAR can be directly linked to our first introduction and mental images of the narrative we’ve been conditioned to believe as true." He also wrote personally, "To escape the mental prison of a harmful and controlling pseudo-Christian cult like The Way International, I had to take it upon myself to change the narrative..." Twinky wrote about how a loving, community-based church helped her after she left twi. A lot of other helpful advice has been given by posters on GSC. I see though how necessary it is to keep the goal always in our sight as we work our way out of the past spiritual emptiness, and that goal is the true nature of Christianity as highlighted in red above. For me, this goal will be the wind beneath my wings. Thanks everyone

I saw more posts came in while I was writing this. Thank you to everyone who cleans up the "crap" laid by twi. You guys rock.

Thanks Rocky. As I said last night, I knew right after I sent that reply to Mike that I had wasted my time and words, in other words casting pearls before swine. I thought it better to let him live on his own little island with his beloved collaterals than engaging with him any more. I even wondered why he bothers to post on GSC for the same reason - he's wasting his time and words. However, after reading the posts this morning to Mike from you, WordWolf and OldSkool, I fully understand what you mean when you say Mike is hijacking "threads for a purpose diametrically opposed to the website's purpose." It's so he can still promote twi and pfal which is why people have to then confront and correct his false and evasive posts so no one will fall for them. I also can see the ploy he uses by "agreeing" with some things on GSC and saying how he sincerely wants twi to change in these areas (with his help of course) when what he really wants to do is keep a foot in the door so he can continue his spiel.

Thanks for your reply Mike. I did an online jigsaw puzzle after my last post and I was thinking all the while that your reply would basically be what you said in your last 2 paragraphs. I see, therefore, that no more discussions with you are needed when it comes to the collaterals as you believe they are inherently perfect. That only leaves you with the knowledge that "many of the practices and traditions and teachings of all the TWI administrations have inherent human problems" which you admit are difficult to change. You have decided on your course of action as to how you can perhaps help these changes happen and in the meantime, you are happy with what local fellowship you have now. So again, I see no further need for discussion on these matters with you. Let me know, however, if there are any real changes at HQ. God bless you Mike.

Mike, I cannot see this ever happening because of the corrupted ministry traditions, practices and doctrines which continue to this very day. It are these things that cause TEMPORARILY new students to "morph into permanent ones." This belief is based on my experiences in and knowledge about twi. 1. There was harsh judgment and subsequent consequences for anyone who questioned what twi taught. Why do you think "after still more time" in the ministry, so many people did not see or if they did see, did not stand up and speak about the error in twi's "Great Principle?" It actually took people leaving twi before they could openly question, discuss and realize the inaccuracy in this or any other doctrine. 2. You wrote, "After a short time, the new student can learn to use the collaterals for herself to see the Epistles and the rest of the Word." Okay, now the new student no longer needs to be spoon fed pfal by teachers, but she still has to use the pfal callaterals if she wants to see the Epistles and the rest of the word for herself. In other words, the umbilical cord is still there. I'm not sure what "use the collaterals" even means, but almost everything new I learned throughout my years in twi was from their other classes, Sunday Night Service (SNS) tapes, the monthly way magazine and new book publications (all of which I had to pay for). BTW, isn't the current twi doing some type of the old "Word over the World (WOW)" ambassador program? I went wow "a short time" after taking the pfal class (about half a year later) because of the spiritual growth I was told I would experience. It's been almost 50 years since my year on the field, so I don't remember a lot of details, but what I do remember is that the year was basically based on pfal - living with other pfal grads and all of us witnessing and teaching from the collaterals and trying to put pfal classes together. Like I said: umbilical cord...still there. 3. You wrote, "Then, after still more time, any Bible version can be opened far from any collaterals, and the matured student receive nourishment. Mike, you know this is only allowed if this new "nourishment" agrees with twi's doctrines. If not, your leaders will not be happy campers. The first time I really studied something "far from any collaterals" by myself, it was about tithing. After 12 years, I dared to think of myself as "mature enough" to do this. The nourishment I did receive was to learn that the "law of tithing" doctrine in "Christians Should be Prosperous" was not only inaccurate but also detrimental (harmful, damaging, hurtful) to believer's financial, mental, emotional and spiritual well-being. Mike, I highly doubt that much has changed since my involvement in twi.