Mark Sanguinetti

ZERO! That is only a religious question.

Mike, please use your mind and even common sense. Did you know that "hidden" has a different meaning than "absent"? A dictionary definition of hidden is "being out of sight or not readily apparent". A dictionary definition of "absent" is "not present at a usual or expected place". Instead followers of Jesus Christ who read the bible know that Jesus Christ is now at "the right hand of God" according to Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33, Acts 7:55 & 56, Romans 8:34, Colossians 3:1 and Hebrews 10:12. Through Jesus Christ, who is now standing or seated at "the right hand of God", followers of Jesus Christ have received the gift of Holy Spirit as a connection with God through Jesus Christ. Do you at least believe the Holy Spirit connection with God through Jesus Christ?

Regarding actual versions of the bible. Just like the word "trinity" is not found in any version of the bible. Guess how many times the phrase "absent Christ" is found in any version of the bible, both Old and New Testament? Zero

Mike is either a super fast typer, while being able to at least try out for the United States Olympic Speed typing team or uses a software program that allows him to speak with the words entered into a text software program.

Followers of Jesus Christ who were unfairly in their lives, especially followers of Christ who were murdered for no crime. God will make up for this in the 1,000 year period with the resurrection of the just or the gathering together. Simply different authors express this differently. For example, Luke in Acts 24:15, Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15, and John in Revelation chapter 20, who often wrote figuratively.

Mike, read the scriptures in Acts chapter 9 that clearly show Saul was blinded before he tried to have more followers of Jesus Christ murdered. Then he was healed of his blindness when he became a follower of Jesus Christ.

Again Jesus Christ and God were protecting followers of Jesus Christ by blinding Saul who again was wanting to religiously capture followers of Jesus Christ and find a reason to have them murdered like Saul did with Stephen. Perhaps, you can think about it this way. If a person was trying to capture and find a reason to have you murdered, would you at least call the police? I wonder if you would also pray to God? Using logic followers of Jesus Christ knew how to pray to God for protection. Historically in the first century followers of Jesus Christ did not have the help of a protective government. Therefore they needed help from God. Jesus Christ in his earthly life saw the hatred in Israel and the Roman empire and knew that there would be destruction in the capital city of Israel soon. Historically in 70 AD the capital city of Israel or Jerusalem was at least partially destroyed by the Roman empire. Sorry, but I am not blaming God or Jesus Christ for this destruction. It came because humans are not puppets on a string with God controlling everything that people do or want to do.

Why don't you want to see that God and Jesus were PROTECTING followers of Jesus Christ so that Saul could not see to get more people MURDERED like Saul did with Stephen before Saul became a follower of Jesus Christ and a very good New Testament teacher? You have logic, but please use logic now. After Saul got out of his mind that of, in practical application, being a religious mafia member or a hateful Pharisee, while again wanting to MURDER more followers of Jesus Christ, like Saul did with Stephen. Then God and Jesus Christ blinded Saul to PROTECT followers of Jesus Christ. Using my VERY GOOD biblical study software program, here are the verses showing Saul's change from being a HATEFUL Pharisee to being a FOLLOWER OF JESUS CHRIST.

Acts 9:7-9 7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything. (NIV) Who was Saul blinded or blind by? It looks like a miracle from God and Jesus Christ.

As 1 Corinthians says in 13:9-12, we know only in part now and will only know fully when we see Jesus Christ face to face. When reading Acts 9:1-19 and other bible verses, Saul was blinded because he was a primary persecutor of the disciples of Jesus Christ, even more than the people who walked with him and Jesus wanted to stop or prevent Saul from this, while being fully successful. Jesus Christ will be successful in getting more and more people to change and follow Him in the future. Especially when he returns for the 1000 year period of time with the devil and demons getting placed in prison so that they can not deceive humanity as covered in Revelation 20. A judgement of humanity at the end of Revelation chapter 20. The new heaven and earth as read in Revelation 21 and 22. I explain these chapters in the last 2 chapter of my biblical teaching book, named "Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ".

The main thing that Jesus Christ and God did was to blind Saul until he bowed down to Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior. No more murdering of disciples of Jesus Christ by Saul with the other Pharisees like he did with Stephen.

Fortunately that did not happen, at least not yet. What is in harmony with WordWolf's post above and I met him year's ago when he lived in Noo Yawk, pronouncing that very large city with a New York accent. In chapter 10 of my biblical teaching book is the following: Quoting from John 20:26-27 on this forum is the following:

Mike is so religious on this forum thread instead of scripturally following Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is NOT absent as the head of the body of Christ. The early disciples later to be apostles clearly saw this. For example from the book of Acts are the following scriptures as quoted from the New King James Version. With Jesus seated on the right hand of God and he currently still is, spoke to Saul later to be the apostle for the Gentiles, got Saul to make a major change from perhaps being the worst persecutor of first century followers of Jesus Christ to being the best and most informative teacher of the New Testament. The Roman citizenship name of Saul was Paul. VPW new about Paul, and quoted from some of the scriptures originally written by Paul many times in his books. For example, what I view as Wierwille’s best book named, “Are the Dead Alive Now?”, which I have fully read. Chapter 13 of my biblical teaching book is in harmony with this book and is named: “When Will the Dead Be Made Alive Through Jesus Christ?”. Even the original apostles were not able to get Saul also called Paul to make a major change like Jesus Christ did as the head of the body of Christ.

A very good YouTube video showing mistakes by Victor Wierwille. I simply give this video by John Juedes, a grade of A. However, God our heavenly spiritual Father could give this video a grade of A+. The only perfect man is Jesus Christ. Simply the rest of us are not perfect, but hopefully we can make good decisions and have good spiritual doctrinal knowledge in our earthly lives.

Revelation 22:14-15 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (NIV®) Just like dogs have been trained more and more of humanity will be trained to follow Jesus Christ with his mindset. Especially in the new heaven and earth as explained in Revelation chapters 21 and 22, which are the last two chapters in the bible. I scripturally teach about this in the last chapter of the book Our Loving Savior Jesus Christ. The above verses are quoted from Jesus Christ with revelation to John the writer of the book of Revelation.

Yes, Victor Wierwille was not perfect regarding faith in God. The only perfect man in his earthly life was and is Jesus Christ. Near the end of Wierwille’s life, I believe he saw that more fully with him showing more humility by passing on authority to people in the TWI ministry which he started. In the late 1970s and 1980s, I saw the problem with the hierarchical structure of TWI with the lordship of people, especially the leader of TWI taking the place of Jesus Christ as head of the body or the TWI organization. I more clearly saw and heard that in the late 1970s when I listened to a tape of a Wierwille teaching when he agreed with the Roman Catholic church that regarding church leadership in this church that the Pope was and is the Vicar of Christ. According to the Catholic web site, the Vicar of Christ is the following: “A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honor and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ”. When Wierwille was the main leader of TWI, he thought of this in a similar way as the primary leader of TWI and the church of Christ. The only time I met him and talked directly with Wierwille was in the 1980s at a TWI event in a southern state, perhaps North Carolina, or Tennessee. When he was with his best friend, I walked up to him and told him that he looked familiar, but I can’t remember your name, but it sounds something like “Wear Something”. Then he answered by saying, “Werewolf”. In recently looking up the word “werewolf” on the internet, this has the meaning of a “mythological animal” or “a human with the ability to shapeshift into a wolf”. That showed he had more humility towards the end of his life with his death less than 2 years later. Then I answered him with an apology for not calling him “Werewolf”, but calling him something else. Then Victor Wierwille, his best male friend and I all laughed. This clearly shows at least to me his increased humility at the end of his life with Victor Wierwille not elevating himself up over others in the ministry organization, which he started.

We know who our spiritual head is. His name is Jesus Christ. WOW and amazing in that we even know where our individual physical heads are with the help of 2 hands connected to 2 arms. I wonder was I successful in getting you to laugh at least a little bit???

The following is a link that explains the history of the trinity from the Stanford University web site. I like Stanford University and this is one of the top five rated universities in the USA. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html Here are two paragraphs in this:

I first saw that errant problem in the late 1970s when I was listening to a tape of one of VPW's Sunday teachings. He mentioned the doctrine of the Pope being the vicar of Christ and agreed with that Roman Catholic doctrine. That inspired or motivated me to, a few years later, write the first draft of the chapter in my book titled: "Lordship of Jesus Christ Contrasting the Lordship of Imperfect Man".

That is logical and makes sense. Mostly to bring attention to his book. Again VPW should have had a more peaceful title. If you have a copy of that book, you could do the research to find the verses.

That is a question for a person that has a copy of the book, "Jesus Christ is Not God". I no longer have a copy of this book and sold it years ago. Instead I have a better book on this subject: "One God & One Lord". VPW's book is OK, but VPW made an error with the title that he choose. A better and more peaceful title would have been, "Jesus Christ the Son of God".

Here is a link to the very good biblical study software program that I use. https://biblesoft.com/ The following is the complete copy right information for the interlinear that I use. Regarding your question "where Jesus is called God". That is a religious question only. There are NO verses where Jesus is clearly called God. If a trinitarian asks me about about the subject of the trinity. One of the things that I tell him or her, "Jesus being seated at the right hand of God is now like God with God his Father delegating ALL authority under Jesus Christ his Son for the salvation of humanity. Yet in his earthly life Jesus showed his humility by often calling himself the Son of Man, much more than He called himself the Son of God. Jesus often related himself to common every day humanity."

I cover this with more detail in one of the chapters of my biblical teaching book with the help of the very informative biblical study software program that I use to help me with my biblical study research. The following is the first part of chapter 7 titled "Reconciliation Through Jesus Christ".

Thank you for the information. Also thank you OldSkool. Hopefully, TWI has improved their doctrines at least a little.

OldSkool, that is simply one of the doctrines that TWI taught, "that by our minds renewed to God's word we take the place of the absent Christ". I wonder if they still taught that from 1996 to 2008? Do other people remember that TWI doctrine?