Mark Sanguinetti

Galen, we know you like the PFAL class, but think about this for a moment. The PFAL class may have some good material. However, many people here have already taken this class a number of times. If people who have taken this class many times already want to grow in knowledge they will need different material from other sources thus offering a fresh perspective. Actually, the PFAL series does not address a number of biblical topics. It's knowledge of the Old Testament is weak at best. Paul, the main writer of the New Testament on the other hand had a tremendous knowledge of the Old Testament which helped and influenced him in writing his church epistles. If a knowledge of the Old Testament was good enough for Paul why should not you and I learn from these books and gain more than what is offered in PFAL? Also important New Testament subjects such as "the Kingdom of God" and an understanding of Covenants are scarcely covered at all in PFAL. Jesus taught the subject of the kingdom of God perhaps more than any other. And basically, a knowledge of the Old and New Covenant is of paramount importance if we are going to be able to connect the dots. Just one look at your bible should tell us this importance. We have the Old Testament. Testament is another word for covenant. And we have the New Testament or new covenant. An understanding of these two subjects alone is very important for the Christian believers scriptural knowledge and understanding. Because these two subjects and others were left out of PFAL we have to go elsewhere for this knowledge. I recommend a fresh additional perspective. In so doing we will gain a more well rounded scriptural understanding.

Of course, the other option is to keep taking the PFAL class over and over again. Sort of the catechism, memorization, regurgitation approach. Yum!

The bible study software that I use is excellent. I have learned considerably more from it than I did with PFAL.

http://www.biblesoft.com/

Getting back to our study of Universalism, an understanding of the word aeon is very important. Without an understanding of this word one will not understand universalism and the reconciliation of all men. They will mistakenly think that aeon means eternity, hence the punishment of the wicked will be eternal. However, aion means age and the adjective form of aion, aionion means age lasting. Hence, the punishment of sinful man has a time limit.

As explained in Marvin R. Vincent's, Word Studies in the New Testament, vol. 4 (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, [1864]), pp. 58-59 (underline emphasis mine DWS):

"Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of time of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle said: 'The period which includes the whole time of each one's life is called the aeon of each one.' Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life aion is said to leave him or to consume away (II. v. 685; ad. v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millennium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not 'a stationary and mechanical value'(De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached. ...The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting."

quote:

God is eternal because He has neither beginning nor end. Jesus is immortal because he was born, and died, but lives on. According to the Apostle Paul, we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will also receive immortality. That doesn't mean we were never born, it just means we'll be delivered from death.

Jerry, I liked your post quoted above so I am reposting it here. Short and to the point. A good explanation. I might add just as Jesus was delivered from death by the hand of His Father God, so shall we be.

And what, so called, satanic doctrine is this Def?

Excathedra: This is from a very good book written by Dr. Cas Ingram titled Super Market Remedies. Foods with curative factors for diabetics are as follows:

Artichokes (contains inulin, a natural type of insulin)

Avocados (carbohydrate-free fuel; carnitine)

Beef (Caritine, B vitamins, protein)

Broccoli (magnesium, calcium, folic acid, riboflavin)

Cilantro (potassium; magnesium)

Cumin (enhances liver/pancreatic function)

Eggs (lecithin, vitamin E, vitamin D)

Garlic (improves circulation; insulin-like action)

Oregano (potent anti-fungal, chlorophyll, minerals)

Rice Bran (provides natural B vitamins, uses Nutri-Sense)

Salmon (fish oils improve the effectiveness of insulin)

Sardines (fish oils, RNA/DNA

Jonny, I just read the first few pages of the book that I am recommending to you with link above. It is excellent. You really should get a copy and read it. This is the experiences of a republican congressman who tried to bring fiscal discipline to the federal budget. He was often oppposed by people in his party simply because they were more concerned about getting re-elected than making difficult choices of fiscal discipline. However, during his term they did bring down the deficit.

Hey Jonny:

Speaking of demorats and republicons. I just bought a book that you might like. It is the experiences while in congress of Tom Coburn, congressional class of 1994. It sounds like he actually might be one of the good guys. Surprise, suprise, especially compared to what we have today from the republicon party in Washington DC. Check out this book on E-Bay and you might get it real cheap. Maybe as low as $5.00. I guess they printed to many and have extras to sell. Do they ship to Alaska or are you in a foreign country up there? Anyway check out this book on E-Bay. It looks good. Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...me=STRK:MEWA:IT

And Jonny. You are one good story teller Dude. You keep me laughin.

Jonny, I just read your last post here. I am laughing now as I type. Who did your wife kick out of your house? You sure can be a funny guy. Especially for a republican. O.K. I reread your post. It must have been the BC, but I was kind of hoping it would have been Craiger himself.

Thanks for your input Cynic. However, I have a rather full plate now. So much to learn. So little time.

And Kathy you did an excellent job of getting Cynic to explain his views more clearly. Even if it was religious material taken directly from a Roman Catholic encyclopedia.

Hello ChattyKathy:

Actually, the first time I ever heard about God's mommy Mary was at my old Catholic High School 20 years ago. This was after I had graduated and I was working there part time as their soccer coach. I was in the weight room working out one day and I heard one of the teachers refer to God's mommy Mary and thought he was joking. I commented, "as if God needed a mommy". I really thought he was joking, but from the expression on his face after I said that it dawned on me that he actually was serious. He really was referring to Mary as God's mommy. I guess it was sort of a term of endearment for him. Ever since then it has been sort of a running joke with me. And yes, I have previously needled our friend Cynic about this because he too appears to have adopted some Roman Catholic doctrine as part of his personal theology. This has nothing to do with your posts above and I really do like Cynic. However, I understand that he is Calvinist and not actually a Roman Catholic. Yet, like a lot of Christians he has adopted at least some Roman Catholic originated doctrine perhaps without full knowledge of its source.

And Evan, that sounds lik a very cool thing that you did in Africa. That took a lot of courage and love to travel there to minister to some of their people in their land. I am sure God will reward you for your efforts. Please do share with us some of your experiences. Perhaps on another thread.

Evan I was just having a little fun with Cynic. Did you go on your African missionary trip? If yes how was it?

And Cynic your last post was a surprising improvement over your usual religious legalese writing style here. I am just wandering though. What religious books explain things in such a way? I guess I am waiting for you to start quoting from sources that are not from the canon of scripture and that are dated post the 4th century AD.

O.K. I see your source now. You must have posted it while I was composing this one. Still taking theological material from Roman Catholic sources I see.

Thank you Kathy.

Really Garth? You mean a good Calvinist like Cynic is not suppose to associate with that which is Roman Catholic? Then why is he such a staunch apologist for Roman Catholic originated doctrine? Sounds like a closet Roman Catholic faithful to me.

Hey Cynic, will you be quoting from the Nicean Creed anytime soon. Because ChattyKathy has a question about God's mommy, Mary. Is this the written work that covers that? I seem to have misplaced my copy. Or should we look to another written work?

What happened to the Private Messaging? There was a few that I was participating in. They are all gone now.

Cynic what language are you writing here? Because your words read like a form of religious legalese. Quit beating around the bush. If you have something to say come out with it man.

Cynic I remind you that this is the Trinity thread. Thou mayest freely speak the Trinitarian gospel here. Speak it like many good Roman Catholics that have gone before you. Speak it forth because the religiously anointed one, the Pope himself, has said that you could. The good pontiff has straightened the path that you may follow it. He, along with his forefathers, have called you and others of the masses since the fourth century when he captured the political heart of the Christian/Pagan Church. So speak it forth Cynic my good man. Speak it forth like only you on Grease Spot Caf?an. And glory be to not only Jesus, but God’s mommy Mary. For out of her womb came God himself and this truly makes her God’s mommy. For this we are thankful and blessed for ever and at least a day. Amen!

Nice post above Jerry. Well thought out and communicated and it shows that you actually read your bible.

As for Cynic and his last post. Huh? Cynic inspite of your posturing here. Since the word Trinity is indeed not found in our bibles would that not place the burden of proof for its existence on your shoulders and not vice versa? Perhaps your argument would be better served by quoting from the now religiously famous Nicean Creed or from another of the works of your forefathers from the 4th century until now? What, that is not part of the biblical canon of scripture? Never mind.

Yes Johniam. They changed the ball. Before the 1920s it was softer and much harder to hit for distance. After this time they tightened the seams and the central core making it harder and more compact. The result was greater flight. Of course, all teams used the same ball. Ruth was clearly the most powerful hitter and took advantage of this before others were able to. However, other powerful hitters followed his lead including fellow New York Yankee Lou Gehrig.

Adding a bit to Steve's post above on Dispensationalism. For people that pride themselves on doing word studies, CES leaders apparently do not believe the results of the one below. Below is the foundational word study for CES for their view of Dispensationalism. Yes, as you probably know that would be for the Greek word "Oikonomia". In the Way denomination and now with CES oikonomia is taught as a period of time. As you will plainly see when looking at the actual scriptural usages of this word and the noun form oikonomos, this word is not a period of time. It means Stewardship or Steward. Here is every New Testament usage with preceeding Thayer's lexical definition.

NT:3622

oikonomia, oikonomias, hee

the management of a household or of household affairs; specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of others' property; the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship: Luke 16:2-4

(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000 by Biblesoft)

Luke 16:2-4

2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy "stewardship"; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

3 Then the "steward" said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the "stewardship": I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.

4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the "stewardship", they may receive me into their houses.

KJV

Luke 16:8

8 And the lord commended the unjust "steward", because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

KJV

1 Cor 9:17

17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, "a dispensation" of the gospel is committed unto me.

KJV

Eph 1:10

10 That in the "dispensation" of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

KJV

Eph 3:2

2 If ye have heard of the "dispensation" of the grace of God which is given me to youward:

KJV

Col 1:25

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the "dispensation" of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

KJV

Titus 1:7

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the "steward" of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

KJV

NT:3623 (noun form of oikonomia)

oikonomos, oikonomou, ho

the manager of a household or of household affairs; especially a steward, manager, superintendent Luke 12:42

(from Thayer's Greek Lexicon, Electronic Database. Copyright © 2000 by Biblesoft)

Luke 12:42

42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise "steward", whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

KJV

Luke 16:1

16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had "a steward"; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

KJV

Rom 16:23

23 Gaius mine host, and of the whole church, saluteth you. Erastus the "chamberlain" of the city saluteth you, and Quartus a brother.

KJV

1 Cor 4:1

4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and "stewards" of the mysteries of God.

KJV

1 Cor 4:2

2 Moreover it is required in "stewards", that a man be found faithful.

KJV

Gal 4:2

2 But is under tutors and "governors" until the time appointed of the father.

KJV

1 Peter 4:10

10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good "stewards" of the manifold grace of God.

KJV

Nicely written Johniam. I recall Mark McGwire publicly saying that he used a dietary supplement to help build up his muscles during his record home run year. He even endorsed it and may have gotten promotional money for this. This supplement was legal, at least at this time, for major league baseball. However, I heard that this dietary supplement was illegal for use by players of the National Football League. Quite a paradox. A body building supplement that was illegal for the behemoths of the NFL, but O.K. for major league baseball players. And this one McGwire swore by and said helped him build size and strength.

As for Jose Canseco. A newspaper writer in the 1980s wrote an article stating that Jose was using steroids. Jose Canseco then denied it and the story eventually blew away. So what does Jose do now that he is retired? He braggs about his steroid use during his entire career that he previously had denied and then implicates other major league ballplayers also as users. I guess he will say most anything to save face, protect his career or sell a book depending on the season. However, he better forget about ever being considered for the major league baseball hall of fame.

As for Barry Bonds, I have a friend who is a local San Francisco Bay Area major league baseball scout. A conversation I had with him one time discussed the use of steroids among major league ball players. Barry Bonds he said absolutely was a user.

Yea, I figure I saved a few bucks. No hockey means me no spend money on hockey tickets. As poor as I have been lately that is a good thing. Instead I bought a few books on E-bay that I can learn biblical Greek from. Aren't I a good boy? Or as an old girl friend used to tell me. I was a good boy.

When I was asleep.

quote:

The Trinity is a biblically necessary doctrine, although it is a biblically unarticulated one.

So you say that it is necessary, but not really in the bible. Does that mean the apostles who were an eye witness to Jesus' resurrection did not really know Jesus as well as the people from the 4th century who never met the man? Or does that mean Paul and the apostles really did not get it right and needed extra doctrine?

Thanks for the updates Pat.

With Love,

Mark

Def with regard to your post dated February 09, 2005 12:44 which I just saw. I was hoping you would find someone who was fluent in biblical Greek. Although his definition is not bad it does not offer any reasons why he has listed what he has, either from contextual usages or from an understanding of Koine Greek.

Why is the Webster's dictionary more definite as to this word's meaning? I looked up the word eon. The complete definition is as follows:

eon n. [< Greek aion, an age] an extremely long, indefinite period of time

You and your bible scholar should look this up some time.