TheSongRemainsTheSame

Def59 I have forgotten more places I have been than I know. Hell, I have even penned a missing persons report on me. :D--> :P--> --> ;)-->

"Standing On the Moon" Words by Robert Hunter; music by Jerry Garcia Copyright Ice Nine Publishing; used by permission. "Standing on the moon With nothing left to do A lovely view of heaven But I'd rather be with you - be with you" But I'd rather be with you An emotionally charged line, often sung over and over by Garcia in concert. Proposed by some as an appropriate epitaph for him. See Stanley Mouse's art which uses this line as a title. And this note from a reader: Subject: Standing on the Moon Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 01:48:52 -0500 From: Djhegland@aol.com Hi. Here's a thought about the "I'd rather be with you" coda in Standing on the Moon. I was performing a solo acoustic rendition of the song between sets of my own band, and the particular night when this hit me was one of our all-time best gigs. It was an outdoor scene with a fairly large and intense crowd. When I got to the "I'd rather be with you coda", it occurred to me that I would rather be out in the audience enjoying the show -- even though playing live music is my favorite thing in the world. The thing about performing live music is that you can only experience your own performance in two ways -- on stage and on tape. I suddenly felt that what Hunter/Garcia might have meant was that being on stage is so completely different from being in the crowd that one might just as well be standing on the moon -- that's how far away it seems sometimes. Just think -- the Grateful Dead provided all of us with a truly amazing experience for 30 years, and Jerry, as well as BobBillMickeyPhil, NEVER got to experience the thing that we all loved so much. They experienced something quite different. ******************************************** Johniam, Nopper Johniam, I am not on the moon except from the point of view of a point of view as point of views go ya know. As even quoted from above. Rok On Song BTW: I too dig the DEAD!!! ;)-->

TheInvisibleDan Yo Dan, I was just thinking to send the whole "Hi, it's all about Me, John Lynn" to him and then his response back to me and then I will post it here so we can all sit at the guru's em and respond and be done with it. Unless someone has another question. Okay Okay.... I'll be the courier for three rounds and that's it. :D-->

johniam I can not prove or disprove the "God" that YOU believe in exists no more than I can prove or disprove the god of my understanding exists.I also have my own understanding of god. "Either He's real or He Ain't.", is black and white and makes for a very complicated decision because ya left out the middle, "maybe maybe not" and all that goes inbetween those three words. The view of earth is quite different when observing from the moon's point of view. Dig It Song

excathedra You posted August 14, 2004 16:16 Hiya excathedra, Thank you for your thoughts and the link between the threads. The link being; an obvious repitious pattern of abuse (choose a catagory) within the history of TWI. DIALOGUE fortunateone posted August 08, 2004 14:34 So sorry for your Way Troubles. I had mine also. Very sad how the WAy distorted the concept of "confrontation." The biblical idea of confront before two or three witnesses was twisted to mean, the leader figures out what is wrong with you then gets a couple of his people to meet with you and confront you. Then they all agree to these findings even if the witnesses never witnessed anything of the sort. The ruined believer is then left to figure out what he did wrong and confess and be humble to change. Which is then ignored by the leader and you are sujected to further ridicule and denegration. You lose! Or do you win cause you are then inspired to quit TWI. Woe to the pastors that scatters the Lords flock FORTUNATEONE to be out of TWI TheSongRemainsTheSame posted August 08, 2004 18:01 Fortunateone, You certainly nailed that on the head. I called the LC to discuss the bs that the BC was dishing out and so we ended up in a three way phone conversation with my wife on the extension and the BC's wife on the other. The BC lied his aZZ off to the LC. I told our sitiuation and the LC basically said that he had to agree with the BC because of his leadership position and that I was on probation... My wife and I just shook our heads with smiling faces. I mean we just could believe our ears. Right ON Fortunateone Right On Yo Forone, Most eloquent description of the one finger.

This thread is about: Hi! It's the real me - John Lynn Well at least that's what i thought to understand it was way and about that type of thing ya know? Intrigueing how the attention seems to shift from "Hi..." to another real person or personS. Many a smooth move going down.

FIVE :D--> I have read the emails and still find there is no dialogue to proceed from one of the authors except one on one at best. And thank you Shaz Rok On Song

Belle "quote,"As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name Tis so true, Song. I, too, wish I had heeded warnings. The odd thing with me, though, is most of my family and friends could see the control going on and just knew I would buck the system and bolt back to normal. I didn't though and by the time they realized I was in too deep to be my normal rebellious self it was too late to even be able to warn me. My response would have been very similar to yours." >>>Tis is so to be true, Belle. Tis so. The sameness of the experience to be repeated in other "twi households" across the nations would be, I think, considered epidemic among such a small group of folks. Did you take that rebel into TWI and use it to benefit the body of christ? I know I sure did. Afterall, I was being taught the truth as it had not been known since the first century church. How can the natural world compete with such a mind set the pedantic eltist ivory league complete with pipe and smoking jackets and the proper credentials and a fat purse & a neon sign buzzing in a field Welcome to The Way Cult Club. >>> "I was thinking that people who leave of their own volition and especially when it's due to injustice and lies and such that they already have a leg up on those who were unjustly M&A and confused about why it happened to them and those who just kind of faded away." >>> Absolutely. I faded away from TWI with a leg up and mental mutual gestulations and gymnastics the one finger gunslinger rok on & kiss my azz You got mud on your face You big disgrace Somebody better put you back in your place type of mind set. There was a mutual deafening wall of silence that developed between our households, Freaking FINALLY!!! ~~~ And then came " the somebody's" who exposed without a doubt "the others" and it was comitted to The Internet Cyber Space Wild Wild West Frontier~~~ or however you may visualise~~~ & voila, dialogue across the globe.~~~ you know...one can run, but try to hide. A larger number of people can take a peek at once and speak their say if they so wish. The mutual experiences certainly are not coincidence ~~~ I sware i was also abducted by aliens ....>>> "The people M&A have to get to the point where they can see that it wasn't their fault and that the evil and wrong was in TWI and not with the person being M&A. There's an extra helping of lost self-esteem dumped on those." >>>Tis is so to be true again. I know of some who were m&a and thankful for it!!! I was not M&A. Damn it!!! Couldn't even walk out with a freaking MA. Now that really ....es me. I would hope most left with their dignity in tact. Ohhh thaat's right! Their names were "only" billboarded across monthly "The Local Focal Gossip Rag" hot off the press man & the phones rang: 'Hello' Listen carefully.They are considered diamon & diamonium and dangerous. If approached, do not speak with them. The older ones can not bend their pinky finger.' I suppose they should have contacted the FBI to make room on the top wanted list ~~~ or maybe the Men In Black. And ya know Belle, Jeesh been quite a while since my last excorcism. >>> "I in no way meant for it to sound as though any recovery from TWI is easy. It's all difficult. I just think those who were kicked out because they were failing to live up to the completely unrealistic expectations of TWI have en extra dose of "hard" to handle." >>> I see how that could be implyed between our posts. I did not read it that way. Thank you for bringing that to attention. For sure the degrees of involvement, dosage of doctrine, definetly determines the mild to severe side effects that could occur. Ya know, a little indegestion to PTSD, depression etc~~~ that kind of mental stuff ~~~ right? I completely understand as well agree. I also see the obvious ramifications involved such as family and the like relations that's more than just black & white. I would be remiss not to balance with a healthy dose the opportunity to have freely met and truely fellowshiped with honorable folk of good reputation, the ones who partied, for whom I have fond memories those blessed evenings at the Klassy Kats Gentlemens Lounge. >>> "My ex has been abused verbally and mentally by some in TWI. He has had his self esteem so destroyed by those people it makes me cry, but he still looks up to them like they are gods. If he were to get kicked out it would break his heart and I think he would have a nervous breakdown. It truly breaks my heart, but I tried to help and see where it got me? alone" >>> I certainly empathise your house of thought, feelings, emotions, mental and physical awareness such situations and conditions an elegy the inner sanctum. Hearts do heal. And believe me, better yet, believe yourself, "You Are Not Alone" in this vast universe. "You and I saw the abuse for what it was and took action. I think that's the healthiest way to leave." >>>Yeah, dig it. I suppose that would be one of the better ways to leave compared to other "healthy" methods of exit. "Thanks for your posts. I really enjoy reading you. p.s. I'm more redneck than southern belle, but Momma hasn't given up on me yet." >>>Miss Belle,Thank You for the compliment and your words. And may your Momma be blessed she knew you'd always come 'round at some point oh Red Rebel Belle.>>> Rok On Song

Bill D. Welcome. "At the risk of instantly discounting myself and my perspective with all of you, I will let you know that I work at the CES/Spirit & Truth home office in Indianapolis. I am 30 years old and had no affiliation with or knowledge of The Way International before my involvement with this ministry (though I can assure you that the past two years I have received quite an education in all of the good and bad associated with TWI. And, for the record, I tend to see a bit more bad than good.)" How unlikly is it that two sets of writings, occuring 18 years apart, One written under the influence of TWI and never been to CES, and the other one never been TWI and written under the influence of CES be so alike in content? Here are bits & pieces of that letter I wrote under the unfluence of TWI 18 summers ago: Date 7/86 quote~~~ "...I wanted to write you concerning my heart for the Word of God and The Way Ministry... ...I know you have been doing some studies on cults and there attributes. I know and believe it is wise to be aware of false doctrines, fiery darts of the wicked, traditions of men, and doctrines of devils... ...I very well know a lot of the teachings, criticism, derogatory and slanderous remarks and articles written about The Way. I do not stand in defence of the ministry or in defence of the Word of God because they need no defence.I have checked out many many of these accusations and found them to be out of context, biased, and out and out vicious lies... ...I have seen people who stood for this ministry for years and speak out against it saying they have been brainwashed or hoodwinked.... ...God is no respector of persons but of conditions set forth in His Word...I have seen great deliverence in my life from drugs, emptiness, and a terrible accident I suffered... I am not suppose to be able to run, walk, or squat... it impossible for me to do those activities according to my x rays and the orthopedic doctors/surgeons... I was and still delivered by the Word of God this ministry has taught me... ...I tell you I am not saying these things because I am brainwashed, manipulated, tortured, or fearful, but because I know that I know that I know that I am completely, completely, completely complete in God in Christ in me... ...So I just thought I would send you a magazine and a few other items this ministry publishes to show you a more realistic look about The Way. You must know both sides to make a decision. OUR MINISTRY HAS NOTHING TO HIDE. YOU ARE FREE TO COME AND YOU ARE FREE TO GO. NO STRINGS ATTACHED... ...I am not trying to persuade you into what we know and believe to be truth of God's Word. Only to enlighten you as what we of The Way really stand for and that is : the inherrant accuracy of The Word of God. ...So just read the stuff I send you and then make a decesion before you believe those accusations set against us. Even a court of law will do this. It is a principle of the Word anyway..." ***** HMMMmmmmm There's something wrong with the world today I don't know what it is Something's wrong with our eyes We're seeing things in a different way And God knows it ain't His It sure ain't no surprise Ya! Aerosmith Rok On Song

Well, well Laugh, That one thrilled quite a guffaw outa me :D-->

Well , I have certainly seen a few mean squabbles and heard a few threats muttered and some who threatened to whipa some aZZ, that to me, it could happen. But no stories. Not even third hand. Makes me wonder why the uppity ups had personal body guards~~~ i thinks it had something to do with death threats. But, a good ole duke it out down and dirty... nopper I suppose Louisville Sluggers still remain under the bed and one by the door and one on the floorboard. ;)-->

Galen: "It does appear to me that most here on GS did feel abused or mistreated, yes. Not everyone feels that way, but yes certainly it does seem to me that most do seem to be reporting that they felt abused or mistreated." Absolutely! And this is what I see from my street corner, :D--> , and this: That there is a distinction between "feeling" , "attempted" , & "actually". Yes? No? I felt at times I was prospering. I felt at times the abuse & mistreatment. I attempted to prosper. There were those that attempted to abuse & mistreat me too! I actually prospered. I was actually mentally abused & mistreated. "I would still question the idea that membership within any ‘group’ absolutely absolves all ‘independent thinking skills’." I am 100% with ya on that one. ;)--> I did leave on three occasions (and of course they were separate). I still spoke the word, listened to the tapes, way rag, spoke in tongues more than ye all, witness. And, and, and on each seperate return TWI was blessed with new resources. After that type of deal going on and some people began keeping , like in --- not returning the pfal & I&P videos.They had left TWI but was preserving the word ya know. And among other things such as the The Two Towers GOTHMOR & TWI split, it would become increasingly difficult to gain access to TwIgs if pointed out as questionable. And if one began their own non-sanctioned twig~~~ they were known as uhm sticks (similar to styx eh.) and with a venom. So most definetly the independent thinking was there, but some of the independent thinking became a forced issue of survival. "I think that there will always be some people who can still flourish even within a culture where abuses exist, or perhaps it is stressing a person that enables them to become stronger. Gee maybe I did learn something from 20+ yrs in the Navy." Certainly the group mind set of my employment in a 5 star 5 diamond resort hotel at WDWorld propertyas a Maitre D', creme d' creme, was distincly different the mind set of my 20 yearz with TWI. There was more independent thinking in the former than the latter. In the hotel we practiced behavior modification for sure. How to be groomed. What to wear. Ridged schedule. 900 - 1500 employees 24/7 catering to literally thousands of guest each week. But there was no brain washing , well at least not on the scale of TWI. That was my experience between those two particular group settings of sameness and vast differences. I think we are saying the same thing concerning "stronger & learning" as in the value of experience(s) mj412 "maybe for life. growth takes change and new ideas and the ability to cope without group think and co-dependency. personal growth takes independent thinking, twi offered none of these avenues of thought and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many." I also concur that growth is helped by change and takes independant thinking. Imho, i think the statement "twi offered none of these avenues of thought..." is a wee bit extreeem; for there were those that promoted such personal growth via independent thinking and some with a pedantic flair and not isolated sporadic instances of either. "... and in fact murdered the ability to do such in many” Now that remaining portion, imho, is extreemly correct and we could also determine what degree of murder and other degress such as manslaughter and and uhm literally, but sadly, suicide. Quiet a many cross roads with in crossroads traveled eh Rok On Song

Belle: "Song, I'm so sorry for what you went through. I think, though, that being face to face with the lying and deception of the leaders that it must have been much easier to recover from the bondage of TWI. Thankfully, too, you were able to get your family out in one piece. Did you see it for what it was at the time, or did it take a while for you to realize that we were all being scr*wed? " As far as being "much easier to recover" because of that confrontation ~~~ I can only say it would have been MUCH easier if I left when I was first confronted in loving detail by loving folks outside TWI in '78 , '86 , '89-91 that TWI was a "dangerous cult". I dismissed those loving confrontations as personal attacks from the adversary and counted it all joy, worthy to be persecuted for His Name. I left in '95 and to this day I continue to see more and more of the "screwing" :D--> , or uhm rather uhm, unraveling of that control TWI had on my soul and many many others. I forgive myself and them, but will never forget the wounds, now scars, that I was fortunate to walk away with as compared to others whose mental scars run ever so deeper than mine. Rok On Belle Song ps: r u a "southern belle"? :D--> ;)-->

Galen: "Here on GS the appearant majority are people who felt abused and mis-treated.Certainly there were attempts to abuse and mis-treat me, I did not let that stop me. Did I put up with it? maybe sometimes so long as it did not stop me from ministering to others." I do not quite understand your reply to mj412. Are you saying that there are a majority percentage of people who "felt" abused and mistreated and there are a percentage that were "absolutely without a doubt" abused and mistreated? I relate the "felt" part to the remaining portion your reply in regards to "attempts" to abuse and mistreat you. " "independent thinking" skills offered by a group? kind of an anti-thesis. The military does not encourage it either does that mean it is not allowed? No. What happens within my brain is my business. Can a group, or corporation, or ministry stop what happens within my brain? No." Am I to understand in this reply to mj412 that there is no such thing as "mind control" over a person regardless what happens within ones brain and no matter what type of group that person maybe involved?

(((((((EXC))))))) well ex, I have only one personal letter from LCM dated May 1, 1991 (address at that time) Dear Steven: God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ. Surely enjoyed your recent letter. I'm thankful for the deliverance you have received and for all that God is doing for you as you continue to keep Him first and faithfully serve His people. God's best to you and yours. Sincerely, In Christ (signature) L. Craig Martindale LCM/ps ********** I also wish you did keep your letters from those two. Do you know how much the above letter meant to me back then??? I was thrilled!!! Do you know how much that letter means to me now??? Bull.... times cattle on a thousand hills!!!!!!! You know why??? Because the WCO8 in '95 guy that wrote me came straight fresh from HQ and that was lcm's true heart delivered on a platter of cruelty. Like you said ..."it is so similar to those i received from wierwille and martindale. sometimes i wish i had saved mine just to prove to somebody, myself, that they really were that cruel" Thank you for being here ((((((( EXC)))))))!!!!!!! Love You, SWS

Fortunateone, You certainly nailed that on the head. I called the LC to discuss the bs that the BC was dishing out and so we ended up in a three way phone conversation with my wife on the extension and the BC's wife on the other. The BC lied his aZZ off to the LC. I told our sitiuation and the LC basically said that he had to agree with the BC because of his leadership position and that I was on probation... My wife and I just shook our heads with smiling faces. I mean we just could believe our ears. Right ON Fortunateone Right On

George, Hey dig it. Laugh it up for sure!!! :P--> ;)--> It became even funnier as " on my way out" I continued "to try to get back in." Damn how many hints did I need??? :D--> Yeah, all that love isolating me and my wife to dominate and control us through some sort of TWIsted scheme to help us back to the santified household sure made a lot of NON Sence that I thought I was actually understanding. So, I wrote another letter to a respected long time believer rooted and grounded in the word who then sold his beautiful home quit his high paying job and uprooted his family for a full time POSition up in No. Carolina (Way Corp # whateva). We were pretty good buds, both twig cos in the same area ~~~ SOOooo i thought i could seek his help under the table as to what to do with my predictament. --> I don't know if i have that letter or not or his reply. EnnyHOOTS I quoted a song from his cd and asked for his help. Yeah right!!! He body slammed me~~~ How dare I take his song out of context and that I was full of treachery and needed to resolve this with my local leadership. Whew whew just digging on all that love. Back to square Oblivion One. I tell ya Geo, you are right , I am currently LMAO the insanity of such situations similar to mine. Here's something even more ABSURD!!! My former Assitant Twig Co, (retired from military wonderful man and his wife, been around for years, his wife a grad from Chile and he from Texas, just wonderful peaceful content beautiful people>get the point)... well another ennyHOOTS... he liked to have a rum and coke each evening before he went to bed~~~ dig this man~~~ weeks later after I atttended that "Buddy Twig", My friend called ME!!! he told me He was sent a letter from Broo** stating that since he rufused not to comply with leaderships decision to quit having his one rum and coke each evening (it was only an ounce or two of rum for crying out loud) that he was now MARK AND AVOIDED PERIOD!!! He said, "Can you believe that ....?" I was floored freaking flabberghasted. I just busted out laughing and he did too. I still continued to get back to the household... that makes even more funnier... .... man... What would Red say on That 70's Show "Dumb Azz" Hey it even gets better than that heh heh But enny hoots i'll save it for later... Yeah Geo, my life is mucho better since i finally got some real pro counseling this year... Thank God for Zoloft. Hey thanks for the invite. Kewl Man!!! Oh and uhm ... them kid better graduate college... they'll take care of your retirement!!! :D--> Rok On Song

quote sky4it~~~ "... in a religious organization you kind of expect better in terms of kindness and honesty. This is simply not the truth any any religious organization. You can find abusive people everywhere. Certainly in my life, I have suffered worse than the pratfals of men in cleric robes. Regardless the type of suffering, there ought to be some benefit to it, in terms of personal growth." ***** quote Shaz~~~ "...Wierwille himself had promised help for my husband, but had not provided it. I had two young children, and no money.One would have thought the "Christian" response would be to acknowledge the hurt, or to encourage my continued stand forGod. Nah. Wierwille just scribbled across the top of the letter that I was "bitter." What an easy way to dismiss the pain of another, and hard to disprove." ***** quote Danny~~~"...So my wife stays home just getting out the hospital a few days earlier than when i left. And what do they say is your wife coped out? Whats wrong with her not coming? What was wrong with me to even think they cared and i allowed the abuse." ***** quote mj412~~~ "...but I KNOW the pain lingers for many for an entire life time. ...I try not to think of the cost but I will NEVER dismiss the cost of many that will not be repaired . .. ...this growth was and is NOT needed in life." ***** quote Galen~~~ "...No matter what you did with 5 years, or 10 years, or 20 years; thsoe years are gone. Nothing can be done today to regain those years. Whether you spent that time working for the Peace Corps, or sweeping floors in a factory, the time would still be gone. Everyone who was alive in the '60's and is alive today, has 'spent' the same relative amount of time, 'wasting' decades. Unless they personally have grown. Not one of us, can repair the time that has gone by. We can learn from our past; strive to do our best in the present; and look forward planning for a better future." ***** Ahh personal growth gained at the expense of ones mind and its inner workings to move forward from such traumatic or wonderful events experienced in the past. Every day of the past was a present day that turns into the next day which is the present. It only seems like yesterday to me that I wrote that letter, but yet it was 9 years ago. The past and future become today everyday. Yes the past is gone and the future is not here yet. All we can do is live inbetween the two. Yes the past is gone and no one can regain those years unless ya have one of them DeLoreans. Or ya take your mind to those experiences and poof there you are... in an instant in the past today. Anything can trigger the past into today. It is etched in the memories of your mind. The product of GSC is "inextribaly" woven from the accumalation or our past experiences TWI wether mutual or not. But that does not mean we can not "extricate", unravel those tangled tapestry's of thought and aleviate the "pain" that will not be repaired AND or the wonderful times we had~~~ a balance eh People live with pain every day as well as there will be those in any strata of society who will inflict the same. Here is another excerpt of a 2 page typed missive I wrote in 7/86 to wonderful friends of mine. A wonderful couple. Very devout Baptists who confronted me my involvement TWI. The husband a Prof. at Ga State U. The wife an elementary school teacher.Their lifes are one of prosperity to this day. quote~~~ "...I wanted to write you concerning my heart for the Word of God and The Way Ministry... ...I know you have been doing some studies on cults and there attributes. I know and believe it is wise to be aware of false doctrines, fiery darts of the wicked, traditions of men, and doctrines of devils... ...I very well know a lot of the teachings, criticism, derogatory and slanderous remarks and articles written about The Way. I do not stand in defence of the ministry or in defence of the Word of God because they need no defence.I have checked out many many of these accusations and found them to be out of context, biased, and out and out vicious lies... ...I have seen people who stood for this ministry for years and speak out against it saying they have been brainwashed or hoodwinked.... ...God is no respector of persons but of conditions set forth in His Word...I have seen great deliverence in my life from drugs, emptiness, and a terrible accident I suffered... I am not suppose to be able to run, walk, or squat... it impossible for me to do those activities according to my x rays and the orthopedic doctors/surgeons... I was and still delivered by the Word of God this ministry has taught me... ...I tell you I am not saying these things because I am brainwashed, manipulated, tortured, or fearful, but because I know that I know that I know that I am completely, completely, completely complete in God in Christ in me... ...So I just thought I would send you a magazine and a few other items this ministry publishes to show you a more realistic look about The Way. You must know both sides to make a decision. OUR MINISTRY HAS NOTHING TO HIDE. YOU ARE FREE TO COME AND YOU ARE FREE TO GO. NO STRINGS ATTACHED..." ***** The bold letters are emphasis the contradictions ANY ones involvement TWI. They were absolutely right TWI was, is, and will always be a destructive cult. They never returned reply nor would return phone calls. I met with them a year ago~~~ 17 years later. They are still devout Baptists and thankfull that I finally left TWI's strangle hold. I did prosper by TWI and also devoured by TWI. Rok On Song .

quote,"That was heart breaking. Lord Jesus have mercy on their souls, how cold and calculating. he makes it sound like you stole their fine china or killed their puppy or worse. look at the contrast look at it. your letter then his . nothing has been done to RESPOND to ANY of the word of God that has been given to you. what did he want do you know or was he just trying to blow you off as a bother and a no good for nothing. that is awful stuff song. what baout the fact the bible says we are to be kind to one another ? that was NOT KIND> and you begging to belong where does he get off with that letter just where? you can not go to his twi anymore huh?" mj412, It seems to me you did not see the dates on those letters in ref to ..."you can not go to his twi anymore huh?." I have not been to Twig in 9 years. Just wanted to clear that :)--> And yes it was "cold and calculating " as well as destructive mentally and sadistic. And there was more to that story as well. I called this "leader" regarding his last "NOTE" to me and discussed with him 'the whys of his letter". The coversation basically boiled down to read his letter again. --> I then asked him if I could attend another twig on my side of town. He told me ...."sure... do what you want... you are just not welcome at my twig for now...". So we attended our former "Buddy Twig". He got the word on that and called me and told me..."What was I doing going behind his back attending another twig?" I refreshed his memory our former conversation and he denied he even talked with me. I just quietly hung up the phone and immediatly called my "Buddy Twig" Co and my former Assistant Co and informed them that I did not want to jeopardise their stand with TWI and had to straighten some things out with leadership and would see them at that time. There was more that followed. More lies, more deciet and manipulation as I continued to place myself under his MOGSHIP.I wanted to return to the fellowships.I was put on probation and was not to have any contact with any believers except him . I had no where to go. Talk about a mind bend!!! And there was even more to follow. All I wanted to do was to get back in with the true household of god, the true body of christ. Rok On Song

quote:"SameSong -- just wanted you to know that the door is always open to you at my abode. I do not have a "TWIG" for you to attend but we will think of something. alfakat -- ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12) thank God the note was short so you did not have to wade through pages of WaySwill..." alfakat, Thank you very much for the open door :)--> and no twig for me to attend :D-->. And btw, there were plenty of pages of VerbalWaySwill... heh -heh. And what is "ekkss 6ckkppppthh kork and ms alfakat, ekkss-dirty dozen(12)" ? Rok On Song

Yeah letters~~~ I have hundreds upon hundreds of correspondAnces stored in 4 feet of three ringed binders dating from '76 to '95. The whole journal is a chonological event of my life in TWI. Toward the end I began to drink quite heavily. I suppose I was trying to drown, ignore the clarion call to leave TWI. I was a well respected Twig Co those last three years (as well the other years and in other capacities), but the drinking was taking its toll that last year. Rev Shro*** counseled me and my wife concerning this "drinking problem" that could lead to alcoholism and we decided that I should discontinue my twig. This decision was made at the ROA '95. The twig was disbanded and all were assigned different twigs to attend. Since my circumstance were "special", I was assigned to R & C Broo** twig (WCO 8). All I wanted to do was get my life right again with God. WCO 8 became involved in every aspect of our lives. Of course the first meet included the ripping apart complete with cursing and yelling. And of course we submitted to the MOG. Oh man he was ripping apart a lot of heart and not only ours. Then he began to use us as a shining example of how people could change. He did this in front of his twig and a couple of others. I was in touch with him every day via phone telling him or his answering machine what my wife and I were doing or writing letters. Here are a few pieces of the two page typed letter , the last letter I wrote to him: Oct '95 ..."The first time we met, the initial confrontation and all discussion involved, the gist being to rebuild my life according to the standards of the Word or leave, is becoming a true reality to stay and DO, OBEY!..." ..."Nehemiah was the book I turned to that first week after confrontation. I studied how he carried out God's Will to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem. It took obedience, planning, strong leadership, godly prudence, and a mind to work untill the plan was finished."... ... "Considering deeply your words and knowing to believe your heart is to help my wife and I, our lifes are thus strengthened. I thank God for you and your wonderful family."... ..."My physical strength and appearance is returning a good countenance. My mind is clear and sharp and continuing more so each passing day."... ..."I certainly want and desire to have an honest report and to be especially good unto the household and to prove God in my life as an example to the household"... ..." The Word of God is not just a special event- It is the Event and Adventure of our entire life.".... ..."It is a privilege and honor to be in your twig- serving with you the Bread of Life. We believe for this twig to continue to grow tight and sweet and strengthened with His Might and Power; to superabound in every catagory of life, signs, miricles, and wonders following us as we believe to be valient for the Truth and to live sanctified"... God Bless ***** THIS IS THE LETTER I RECEIVED FROM HIM, hand written and one paragraph: Oct '95 QUOTE: " Steve and Rae Lynn, God Bless You in the Name of Jesus Christ- At this time I'm not willing to have you in my twig, nor am I willing to have you in my home. Do what you want. God keeps the record. Nothing has been done to respond to any of the Word of God that has been given you." END QUOTE *** A lot of volume in those two missives eh~~~ I am glad I kept the record.

Danny, "I Pray in the end my life was not one big lie." Well, I do not pray for that, but realise that truth is lies and lies are truth and what are inbetween I have only this life to explore... Song

Oakspear... would you please pray for the Way Corps and The Word Over The World and the Board Of Trustees... :D--> RoK On Song

Hmmm... That day I was with a company performing remodeling and it was all "believers" employed. My bud to da bone Mack came up to me that morning and said he needed to talk with me. He put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Dr. is dead." That stunned me to the marrow. We stared into each others eyes. He put his hands into his pockets and looked to the ground. I said, "I'll be back later." "Okay I understand." I went to my truck and removed my tool belt and drove off to a quiet place to cry. I cried because I truely loved the man of god. Only met him a few times, but his heart was to me a true saint in the ministry. Looking back to that time~~~ that was an honest cry of grief for the man who taught me the word. I am not ashamed that I cried for him. But now i know the "truth" the back halls of TWI! My tears were true, but his ministry was not. TWI is a CULT!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!

God Bless God Bless God Bless God Bless Bless bless ... Wasn't that kind of repetitious especially during a ROA??? :D-->