My3Cents

I'm not so sure. Depends what you mean by "better." Speaking as one who certainly was an impressionable youth, I'm pretty sure I would not have been attracted to a "good role model." If the laxity toward sex drug and rock & roll hadn't been there, if the goal of achieving power, wealth and domination (isn't that part of Word Over the World) wasn't promoted, I don't think nearly as many would have been attracted and it would not have gone anywhere. There were, in my realm other endeavors with "good role models" - some church based, some not, and none of them grew like the way did.

That's too rational an analysis. I think Geer and many of those who said those High and Mighty pronouncements really believed them at some level. We were, after all emotionally caught up in this thing and many of us/them had serious emotional problems. Tha't why so many of the "pronouncements' of leadership seemed so contratdictory, or why leaders would allow or even encourage actions that went against their stated desire to "move the word" or even build the empire. Just my 2 cents and one for inflation.

Thanks for the details, whitedove and everyone. As a former friend of CG and his wife, I'd be interested in any details of what they're up to now. Where they live, do they run a ministry? how many followers etc. Thanks

From my perspective it would always be a struggle to trust God. Because even to believe in God in any but the most vague way, you have to deny a whole lot of evidence that's constantly visible about how the world works. Way too much struggle for me. I gave up a long time ago.

I don't know. But I would guess that one doesn't get to be as messed up as vpw was without some "issues" being caused or at least made worse by one parental units.

Speaking as someone who was there I can tell you most of the clergy didn't have those kind of balls (or brains). They were trained to follow leadership and get ahead by sucking up and being loyal. For all the talk of "having no friends when it comes to the word" most of them would have been emotional basket cases without their "father" providing them with pats on the head. There were some who by that time had or (soon would) figure out that the thing was a mess, but people with that realization don't cause an uprising - they realize the whole bible/ministry thing is a scam so they just get on with their lives. Of course there were others who felt that they needed to pursue and spread the word in a different format - and those didn't bother uprising either - they just went and formed splinter groups. But as I recall it took a while for most of them to come to that point.

Those of you who are into mind-maping (it's a form of note taking) might find this useful or fun. It's free. http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Belle, your asking the question and using the word "corrupted" indicates some pretty powerful assumptions. For example that there is (or was) some "uncorrupted" something. Are you only willing to do your search with those assumptions? If so, you'll come up with very different results than if you're willing to put those assumptions aside. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but they'll certainly be different.

I knew Chris and his wife in high school in Rye NY. Both before and after they got into the "word". I'm saddened by news of her ill health and would love details (facts) of the situation, her address, what they are up to etc. You can reply here or email me "john AT sbcoach.com" My recollection of this time (and I was on the phone when he first read the POP and attended the clergy meeting he ran at HQ) is that for the first year or so the trustees accepted his "reproof" as accurate. They tried (or said they were trying) to change. But the fact is that the main accusation what that they were not "spiritual" enough. There wasn't anything objective they could do. No wonder they got fed up reversed course. I remember thinking at the clergy meeting that Geer was running this as if it were a complete power grab - but at the last minute when one would expect him to take over (he would have had most people's support I believe) he did not. Instead, he said "I'm going back to Britain to move the word and you guys stay here and get your $*@! together. If you need me call." As I recall, he had already gotten claim to Gartmore property and the intellectual property rights for use of way publications in Europe - with the agreement of the trustees who were feeling reproved. When he left, there was a power vaccum and many folks were wondering who to follow (though geer hadn't specifically asked people to choose). It was at that time that I decided to re-examine why I believed in the bible at all - but that's another story, though for the record I got out before the loyalty letters and other stuff. Sunesis, I agree with you about geer's yelling. Shortly after getting into the way, he quickly adopted vpw's angry traits and his willingness to yell at people and humiliate them. He never (that I saw) developed the warmth and caring side that vpw could also show. And of course he was loyal and fanatical which is why he rose so fast in way leadership. As for stuff about murder - as I recall terms like that were often tossed around in an allegorical sense. Powerful words used to inflate what often amounts to a disagreement. Regarding changing a person's face - remember that when something is seen or heard there are two ends to the string. One is the physical sensation the other is the mind set of the person observing. It's not out of the question that a person who was in grief or trauma or other highly emotional state would look up and see a face of a dead person just because of what's going on in their mind. I wouldn't read too much into it. But of course, the way was founded on reading too much into things. Anyway that's my 2 cents and one for inflation. Hope that helps.

I don't know nuthin 'bout DVDs but if they are anything like CDs then when you write to them the software ends the session - which basically makes the rest of the CD useless even if you just wrote a very small file and the rest is empty. In other words, CD's aren't used like a floppy. AND audio CD's are written in a completely different way - how the data is organized and retrieved is nothing like the way it is with a CD that has data written on it (even thought the physical medium can be written either way - it can't be written both). Perhaps video DVDs have something in common with that. Just a thought.

It's not like what he said was worth a damn when he was alive. He'd say stuff and then not stick to it. Believe me he only said stuff like that because he felt it at the time. If he'd changed his mind he'd have changed the rule - regardless of what he'd said previously. Remember it was he who instituted the armed security force. Like a church really needs it's own cops.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html I was right. You don't believe it do you?

I've heard tell that the number one fantasy for women is two men: one to do the cooking and one to do the cleaning. According to Kinsey - the sex researcher - He didn't classify people as homo or hetero sexual. He said there were homosexual acts and heterosextual acts [and I guess - monosexual acts ]. What percentage of each people enjoy varies among people and for some people varies over time. I find it amusing that often people who don't want any limitations put on what they can do with their guns are happy to tell others what they should or shouldn't do in bed with a consenting adult.

How sure are you that it is the same Barb Lally?

It's been said that a true gentleman never insults anyone unless he means to.

My wife is the best parent I know. Most of the stuff I'm about to say I learned from her. Between us we have 5 teen agers (second marriage for each of us). We took one to college yesterday, we're taking another to college Wednesday. Both are Freshman. Two other kids are high school seniors and we have on who'll be in 9th grade. The goal of parenting is to teach your kids how to make a successful life around something they are passionate about, and to keep them alive long enough to do it. But the passion and the definition of success are theirs - not yours. You may not even like what they're passionate about. Hopefully you will like the kind of people they become, but that's not a given, nor is it necessary for successful parenting. It's a paradox that accepting this makes it much more likely you will enjoy them. Someone who is 17 and 9 months (which was what this thread was started about) will not be significanly different as a person when they become 18 though they will be legally able to do some things they can't do now. If they still need a curfew at this point I'd ask is it for you or for them? If they don't get enough sleep it should be THEIR life that suffers for it. You as a parent might need to point out the connection, but if they don't want to get enough rest, there's not much you can do about it. Sometimes the curfew is for you. You just sleep better knowing your kid is home by a certain time. That's your perogative but I'd suggest being honest about it. Say something like, when you get your own place, you can set your own schedule, but while you're here, I'm going to insist on your cerfew being xxx because I get nervous if you're out later, and I need to get some sleep. The same idea carries through a lot of parenting. There are times that an 18 year old doesn't make decisions with the wisdom of a 40 or 50 year old. But the key is will the consequences be severe enough for you to jump in? Sure there are sometimes they will. But for a normal kid at that age, most of the consequences will be better for them to experience than for you to jump in and protect them from. While they experience them, you can be there to help them learn how to do it better next time, but be sure they feel the need for it to be "better" otherwise you'll just shut them off. MTGal - sounds like you have a pretty good kid. When she "challenges you" or needs to be reminded about her "responsabilities" then perhaps the connection between what you're requiring and why you think it will help are not clear. If what you're requiring will help her become a more successful adult, she should be able to understand the reasoning by this point. That's not the same as agreeing with you - but it makes it much less volitile when you have to "pull rank" if you can explain it, acknowlege their right to have a different opinion and say I'm making this call because I'm the parent. And when you take that approach, and you have a good kid, by this age you don't have to do that too often. If what you're requiring won't help her become a more successful adult, I'd stop requiring it. Hope that helps.

Great point about the canary. My alarms go off when any of the following happens: 1. Anybody presumes to know what the almighty thinks/wants/says. Or proclaims that there is such a thing as the almighty, with a certainty that assumes my beliefs about the subject are less valid than theirs. 2. Any belief or logic where the validity of the input is changed based on the output. For example, if you get the right results [output] then you were believing right, or your attitude was right or you were "present" or in your "knowing" but if you got the wrong result then you weren't. If you can't tell till after the fact - it smacks of cultism. 3. Any situation where a person asks you to go against your gut without any explanation other than "trust me I know better, or I'm more experienced" There are exceptions to this but they are based on real expertise that is repeatable and consistent - and usually accompanied by humility. 4. Any belief system that is based on hypocracy or "Do as I say not as I do". 5. Any situation where the concept is judged not on it's logic but on it's conclusion. eg it's more comfortable to believe the world was created by an intelligent designer so any evidence that points in the opposite direction must be wrong.

Thanks for the help guys. If I can't find a way to use the same bootable disk on many machines, (which I probably can't) I'll just stick with my laptop. I find it the lesser of two hassles.

The gist of the article is based on research done by a psychologist. He identified many traits of psychopaths/sociopaths as people who have no real empathy with others, and continually use/abuse them for their own personal gain. He developed a screening profile that is used by police forces etc to make sure they don't hire these people. The article examines how many CEOs and other industry leaders have similar profiles. The difference is that criminal psychopaths tend to be violent and work against the system, where as white collar ones are often brought up in middle class homes, are non violent, and work within the system. It gives a quiz to see if your boss is one - are they charming? insincere? don't really care about people but put on a show about it? etc. Made me think of politicians - especially W. I found it pretty interesting. Certainly most of the way leaders fit the bill.

I went to the way's website today just for grins. So many big things to say about how boring, old fashioned, unattractive etc. But I thought I'd share some little things that strike me odd for a group who says they are built on accuracy. Under "What's New" they have a little article for each month with mostly scripture quotes. I didn't realize scripture was NEW. Under "Current Year" you can download a video called Sprining Forth at The Way. It's a slide show set to music (not really a video - no moving images) of pretty nature scenes at way-world. And it's from LAST YEAR. Guess spring is always the same there. And it was weird that there were no people in it, just flowers, trees, grass and buildings.

There's a cover story in Fast Company magazine about how to tell if your boss is a psychopath. Very interesting reading. If you buy a copy there's a password so you can read it online at Fastcompany.com but I believe it will be free once the next issue comes out.

It's been a long time. I left in mid-80's But before that there were several folks who got kidnapped by deprogramers. I'm sure I can recall one who came back and perhaps there were others. But as someone said, this was pre-Martindale. One of the the things that being in the way does, is insulate you from having to make a lot of choices on your own. That feels so good to some people, they are willing to put up with how harmfully those choices are made for them. I'm not surprised that some people get out and want to run back for cover.

This question is sort of aimed at IGOTOUT because I know he uses removeable hard drives, but answers from anyone who has experience would be appreciated. I work in two home offices and I also travel a bit. I want to have the same computing situation wherever I go - at least as far as software. So I take a laptop with me. In my main office I hook it up to an external monitor and keyboard. In my next iteration, I'm thinking it would be nice to build a desktop as my main machine, but keeping all the same programs and data would mean laborious synching (which is a pain) and not only installing the same software multiple places but making sure to tweak preferences and settings in the same way. The thought occurs if I could use a single removeable hard drive on all machines - that might do it. And since travel really does require a laptop, the laptop drive would have to be the one that moves. Does anyone know if there's a way to make a desktop so it uses a laptop drive as the main, bootable, C: drive. (not as a slave)? Thanks.

I don't think you're way off base at all - but it's not that simple. As most of us can tell from looking at our own lives - what we do, and what we say, and what we believe are not always consistent or logical. It's quite possible/common for people to really believe something and act in ways that go contrary to that belief without even realizing there might be a contradiction. When you combine that with how much in denial a person has to be to ascribe to the beliefs in the way it's probably very common. Looking back at my own life, I know I wasn't totally convinced of all the stuff I was propounding but I do think I believed that I believed it (if that makes sense).

I've had goat and it is a lot like lamb so I assume similar cooking methods apply. Some of the best lamb I had was served with a sauce made by cooking whole garlic cloves in balsamic vinegar till the cloves disolved and the whole thing reduced to a thick consistency. But I like mint jelly too, so what do I know?