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I thought you knew they didn't know. Therefore it became a question when you wanted it clarified or some proof of some sort. I provided it. It was your question. And I think there is enough clarified in this thread to float the ark. When there is no basis that I can see for the "gathering together" or "coming of the Lord" as some future event that will happen to all at the same time. I have looked elsewhere and found things that are satisfying to me, though they lead to more questions. Our limitless God and our boundless heart. What a great combination. and perhaps One as Jesus prayed that we would be One with the Father. And so the old and new still goes on even now, Gen to Rev in play every day. And perhaps I'm done with this thread for a while. Others can post all they want. I may chime in later... ----- Yes Year Death was defeated that day when Christ died and rose. I know that all will awake to this sooner or later. And what a day that will be, to see what has already been done. The comforter coming from God. Hmmmmm, comfort reminds me of other verses....love it!

btw, Danny thanks for your input especially on the first page. And to any I didn't respond to thanks for your input. This is presented for consideration. The Holy Spirit will lead into the Truth. Not me. lol.... I don't want the job, it's too hard! :)

Sunesis, Goey, the question was where is it not what it is. Ecclesiastes 3 16And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. 17I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. 18I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him? Ezekial 32 1And it came to pass in the twelfth year, in the twelfth month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, take up a lamentation for Pharaoh king of Egypt, and say unto him, Thou art like a young lion of the nations, and thou art as a whale in the seas: and thou camest forth with thy rivers, and troubledst the waters with thy feet, and fouledst their rivers. 3Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will therefore spread out my net over thee with a company of many people; and they shall bring thee up in my net. 4Then will I leave thee upon the land, I will cast thee forth upon the open field, and will cause all the fowls of the heaven to remain upon thee, and I will fill the beasts of the whole earth with thee. 5And I will lay thy flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with thy height. 6I will also water with thy blood the land wherein thou swimmest, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of thee. 7And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. 8All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD. 9I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known. 10Yea, I will make many people amazed at thee, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for thee, when I shall brandish my sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of thy fall. 11For thus saith the Lord GOD; The sword of the king of Babylon shall come upon thee. 12By the swords of the mighty will I cause thy multitude to fall, the terrible of the nations, all of them: and they shall spoil the pomp of Egypt, and all the multitude thereof shall be destroyed. 13I will destroy also all the beasts thereof from beside the great waters; neither shall the foot of man trouble them any more, nor the hoofs of beasts trouble them. 14Then will I make their waters deep, and cause their rivers to run like oil, saith the Lord GOD. 15When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell therein, then shall they know that I am the LORD. 16This is the lamentation wherewith they shall lament her: the daughters of the nations shall lament her: they shall lament for her, even for Egypt, and for all her multitude, saith the Lord GOD. 17It came to pass also in the twelfth year, in the fifteenth day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 18Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit. 19Whom dost thou pass in beauty? go down, and be thou laid with the uncircumcised. 20They shall fall in the midst of them that are slain by the sword: she is delivered to the sword: draw her and all her multitudes. 21The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword. 22Asshur is there and all her company: his graves are about him: all of them slain, fallen by the sword: 23Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living. 24There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit. 25They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain. 26There is Meshech, Tubal, and all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword, though they caused their terror in the land of the living. 27And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living. 28Yea, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the uncircumcised, and shalt lie with them that are slain with the sword. 29There is Edom, her kings, and all her princes, which with their might are laid by them that were slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with them that go down to the pit. 30There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit. 31Pharaoh shall see them, and shall be comforted over all his multitude, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword, saith the Lord GOD. 32For I have caused my terror in the land of the living: and he shall be laid in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that are slain with the sword, even Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD. I don't see the answer here, if you could show me I'd appreciate it. Goey Clay, Are you taking the word hope and then bending the scriptures to force a particular meaning upon them to fit your interpretation of 1 Thessalonians? A question not an accusation

In the context of the Old Testament where no one knew where the dead went yes I can understand Matthew Henry's comments. But in the cotext of now things are different. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?searc...olewordsonly=no And yet even in the old testament there is hope in God past the mortal.

and perhaps more lives...

I think so templelady, remember the guy who got a stake through his head when he was asleep. lol Not avoiding the question but that came to my mind. ------ I think these verses offer much also 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. Apparently there is hope in another life too. And that no one has perished.

thanks for your input year, a lot of things keep coming to mind for me. and not just this subject "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God"

Heres one thing to consider in the thing. That there is more than one thing to consider in this section of scripture and that just this section alone is addressing many things. For once one has tasted the word and chewed it, digested it, experienced it's Hope, there would be a tendency to think that others will not experience the same thing. Thessolonians is one of the first epistles written as far as I know. "that you sorrow not as others which have no hope" Conflicts with... "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion." From ecclesiastes. If you know what "joined to all the living means". So for "others" to have no hope would be something that is a reality. And the scriptures say there is hope for the living. And the Word from the Lord is to sorrow not. Would there be no hope for them at all? And why would they (the others) have no hope? And sorrow? There is still a chance for more for them. For the believers to sorrow in this fashion would tend to lead me to think that it's not addressing death directly in this phrase. But that the sorrow of the believers is that "the others" would have been considered to have not experienced what they did in Thessolonica. And quite possibly would think that "others" would not pass from death to life as they are living-meaning before they physically die. This is not to you directly Goey, just thinking out loud. And rambling i suppose...

This reminds me of a friend who runs a forum. And no it's not Todd. She would be called certain things and then have to look them up to see if she was! lol! I never even heard of Mystic anything till after I started posting some things. Funny how people label some things. I seriously doubt if anyone would believe if I really told them of my experiences. And O there is some more labels for them too. I know you Oakspear have checked into some different things eastern style. If I recollect from your previous posts a long time ago. would love to hear of it sometime. We could discuss it over pizza!

WordWolf and Oakspear, I apologize for the way I answered you both earlier in this thread. All those who posted have posted some evidence in part. Like I said I'm still reflecting on it along with other things too. So anyways it's another look or perspective. Perhaos a mix of figurative and literal. To consider this takes time to digest i believe. And it's not that anyone has to believe it. All things are pure to the pure. So there is no need to not look at it from a different pov. and of course "all things are pure to the pure" would obviously not apply to violations of people against people But to look at different perspectives without fear. And it's always a matter of personal choice and no right or wrong about looking or not looking. Christianity is an eastern religion with it's roots in Jewish beliefs. There are many eastern religions that could be looked into. But imo just to pick up some of the fruit of their beliefs. Rather then going hog wild into it ya know. From what I gather from some of them, people tend to worship a person. Much like we were into with twi. Or similar. But to see some of what they believe can be enlightening. As I recall it was the wise men from the east that knew of Jesus' upcoming birth. Because they were watching and looking. So I hope that helps. Everyone is different yet the same in many ways. These are my thoughts on it. Not recruiting or badgering anyone. It's a total individual decision and desire. Nor would it be wrong to not investigate these things. I come from a total kjv background...lol...yet can still see some other insights.

I do hope this does not start a battle again. A battle is not what I want or need in my life.

I'm sure you have more knowledge of the mystic type deal Goey. From studying it. I have not claimed to have more knowledge about it then you. The experience itself is what I am interested in. And it has other names as well. I apologize if I come off rather direct and blunt. It is merely to communicate the points that I am making. And the questions I have and what I see as of this day and time, and I can change. Not saying anyone else can't either. Let me start over if you will allow me too and I can learn as well. And perhaps others could get a bettewr grasp on what this is about-this thread that is. 13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, Apparently Paul wants them to know this info in more detail. concerning them which are asleep, From the context of Thessolonians this does not seem to speak of dead people as in the grave that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. Having no hope is a question - what does that mean? 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, Or since-whatever- the point is to believe it. even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. When? And to where? 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, Obviously getting this information from the Lord. that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord This phrase is not exactly clear to me. What would "unto the coming of the Lord" mean? shall not prevent them which are asleep. From every source I checked prevent is precede, although I'm not sold on the meaning as it is understood in todays language. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, Where is Heaven? Genesis gives no distinction between the atmosphere and space. And this is a major deal to me. with the voice of the archangel, Apparently a voice is involved, a sound of some sort. and with the trump of God: Not really sure what this is. I would say it's Jesus Christ, but I think there is a lot more to it then that. and the dead in Christ shall rise first: This may be synonomous with asleep or not, I don't know for sure. 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: Well the "air" is pretty darn close I'd say. and so shall we ever be with the Lord. With the Lord as opposed to the Lord being with us? A consideration. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. So this is presented as many questions and not as something I'm trying to get anyone to believe, just to consider different possibilities.

lol oaks i post what i believe and i post my heart and these things change at times not many understand or see

and Oakspear, I can't tell you enough about how much your pm meant to me in the greatest way. It was priceless.

Thanks Abigail, Apparently Allan thinks there is a conspiracy, and Goey thinks knowing more then everyone is what's important. I'm pretty fed up with some of these people. If it wasn't for people like you and others I wouldn't bother to post. But it seems some are getting something out of it so I'm staying for a while longer. Whether anyone likes it or not. Just wait till the next thread...lol....

dmiller, neither Me or Todd have been Way Corps Grads. and allan is wrong plain and simple

Goey-check your pm's-thanks

You don't know what you are even talking about allan. Don't waste my time with your ..... Goey and I were talking and you want to make it something it's not. Goey is telling me his perspective and I'm telling him mine. And it's a discussion. And you will not get me to say on an open forum what I'd say to Goey in private so that you can come up with other comments like this. That is EXACTLY why I asked for a private conversation with Goey. Cause of people that respond like you just did. And Goey can post whatever he wants from a private conversation with me as he sees fit to. And as i said you got something to point out, do it.

Point out mine or withdraw the accusation. And don't include Todd with me in your assumptions. We are two different people. You got something? Spit it out. You think I'm in this for my own gain or what? Come on speak, you just made an accusation against me. BACK IT UP!!!! Or WITHDRAW THE ACCUSATION!!!! You think you can just spit out crap and not be called on it? POINT IT OUT! And I HAVE NOT THROWN THE BOOK OUT! You apparently don't read my posts!

Well Goey if we do discuss some deeper things it will have to be in private cause this is powerful stuff. Your rejection of certain things that we have discussed here shows me that you are not going to understand what I'm talking about. It will be misunderstood and that is not the love of God. I'm sorry for saying that you were not ready. Perhaps there was a better way to put it, but I can't think of another at this moment. Plus I'm at work. So pretty busy too. But not too busy for someone who is meek and searching and asking from the heart. And that is not saying you aren't. Quit reading everything I say as something personal against you. I can't read minds, nor can anyone else. We are on the same side you know....

And yes Goey I was searching because I knew I didn't have the answers. Or at least not seeing them. But God had other plans and I was meek to that which He showed me from within. Funny thing is it keeps getting bigger and brighter. And those that think it's some sort of devilishness do not know. But I have to stay grounded in Love because if I don't it will not turn out well. What is it that John is speaking of when he talks about the anointing? What is it that is said of the new testament and that no man need teach it to you? Is that not in the scriptures? Have you considered that possibly there could be something to it. Contrary to possible believing about Todd and I, we do not speak that often and do not collabarate or plan together on any type of agenda of posting or topics here at greasespot. We do communicate but not about the content of the posts, after the posts yes we do discuss very few things. It's something that is special to me, don't know about Todd, but I think he thinks that way too. I just never asked. There is real Love that is beyond understanding just like the scriptures declare. A Love of God and the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ Jesus supports this.

I haven't "wrote you off" sprawled out. You did that to me. "i was honestly looking for responses/reactions" You got them and look at how you treated those that responded.

Goey, That was not a dig and mystism goes deep and continues even now. In fact it goes further then we can imagine. And points of mystism which is God working in a person have been reached by many. And there are still more things to learn and grow in even beyond what has been done in the past among the living. I know for a fact that Todd is not digging at you but to point out that there is more then you may have looked into. I cannot point you to them at this time. You cannot handle it and it is not time. I wasn't searching for it. It found me. And I can not deny it's reality. There is no way for me to prove it to you. There will be a time and times and times again. What many call mystism is considered to be some sort of doctrine. It is not. It is an actual real experience and there are hundreds of documented cases of spiritual experiences called mystism and called other things as well. It the tip of the iceberg so to speak. And I have nothing against anyone who wants to believe differently. Though I am human and my buttons get pushed sometimes just like everyone else. But I'm getting better at controled responses and listening to my heart. allan, I didn't say- You misread my meaning. And you misquoted me.