CM

And if these verses in Philipians are talking of physical death. Then how would this fit in? 26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.

Looks like I've run off most everyone here...lol. Just look at it. Who really understood those verses in Philipians when vp taught it? It didn't make sense what he was saying and the way he said it should be seen. And 1 Thessolonians 4, man this is life. And thanks Abi and the few who do see. I'm willing to discuss alternatives, I said that from the beginning. But please don't waste my time or yours with twi dogma. We all already know what that is.

Here's some more to play with in this regard... 20According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. 21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith; 26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again. 27Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; 28And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. 29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

allan, who said anything about Just because you don't understand what is being said does not mean that it doesn't have an understanding to it.And just in case you are considering that Todd and I or anyone else is in some kind of group to recruit followers. We are not and furthewrmore we can disagree with each other without even flinching. Should you ever get the chance to talk to todd, he will talk your ear off...lol! I understand some of what he says but not all. But I listen cause I know his heart of love. Love is a requirement for TRUE spiritual growth. Love, not of yourself but a love to be like him and see him as he is. Even if it's with a mirror, cuz face to face no man will live. And that is the dieing before you die. Face to Face and that life that is hid in Christ will be seen. If that can happen now, wouldn't that be something? And then what would even be greater then that when we shed this flesh for good? Christ is alive.

You are welcome to your opinion allan but you are wrong in your assessment. Some do know more then others-that's obvious to a logical person. No one said anything about any "level". Most just want to stay academic with the Word which is fine and has it's place. Some want to experience and see and live what is seen in Acts. And I'll make no attempt to hide that I think 1 Thess 4 IS and can be lived and IS lived today. You want a "'special knowledge' tag ", check out the anointing talked about in 1 John or the comforter,Spirit that will lead you into all truth. Those verses you will find in the scriptures-truth is spiritual and therefore can only be shown to someone by the spirit. That's what the bible says and that's the way it is. You want to stay with books and never SEE it for real. That is your priveledge and I got no problem with it. But many want go messing with those who are ready to see more. It takes courage to go against all odds and see more.

O Mike, you so funny! lol..lol...lol...yep it's still on top of you making you smaller and smaller...

Well...let's consider this... If it's talking about physical death. Is anyone left out? Meaning does this just apply to those "born again" (which could be a whole thread by itself). And how does it apply. In another words how does it happen? If it's talking about something happening now. Is anyone left out? And of course if it is happening now, how many ways does it happen? And if you read into this that I'm promoting just one thing, you are mistaken.

That was a serious question because I have.

Like I said Mike, I don't see any difference in what you are doing compared to what they are doing. You are in it for yourself just like they are. Reasons may vary but the same selfishness is there. And by the way, who do you think these people are anyway?

Oakspear which is quite different then what you are now saying And for the record I did- That's why I question the fact that you didn't even read it or consider it. And why would you feel condescended to? That really is perplexing to me. Is it that you have had a bad experience with looking inwardly where God has and is claiming to be working? And there is nothing "special" about inner understanding. Where else would anything be understood? So anyways your initial post ....ed me off cause you didn't address the subject. I did quite a bit. peace

Well...I gotta get some "sleep"...lol...pun intended. There's always new days to consider new things. All things become new...constantly, quite the ride.

Worthy of repeating imo. I'd add that believing before seeing is the work of the spirit of God within. I'm still willing Goey. But I can't stay stuck into one interpretation. Are you willing to look at a few perspectives? darn it-can't get the thing to make my newest comment to be a separate post...lol

Such a waste of a good thread that turned away from it's true intent. Hopefully it will get back to seeing what God wants us to see.

Pwerhaps investigating various ways of seeing what God has already done in us would be a far more exciting adventure then a bunch of scriptures that do not live untill seen in various processes of learning and believing and seeing it live within ourselves Too much for some, but it can be done.

That's .... Goey and an attempt to discredit me. I put forth more then one viewpoint and very few can see it. Not surprising to me seeing as twi had such a strong hold on what to think. What the hell happened to free thinking? To the Pure all things are Pure.

What are you talking about allan? What specifics, or are you just throwing this out to put fear into people? Just what do you see as my intent?

and before that this- You are apparently staying with physical death being the subject of 1 Thessolonians 4. And I do blame twi for this type of thinking within ourselves because that is where it originated for most of us. Can you relate to that? Staying with physical death as the subject does not fit with the rest of Thessolonians 1st or 2nd and it does not fit with the other scriptures relating to the same words used. Namely Dead and Sleep. I listed all the scriptures from Paul's 7 epistles I think. There are certainly more to consider. I am not asking anyone to change what they believe but to consider other possibilities. This is why it's annoying to me for someone to say "prove it" because I am in the process of learning myself as we all should be. Cuz if learning God, His Word, Christ, and the Holy Spirit stops then there is a limit placed on the unlimited. And we are then stuck into a mold or doctrine that is dead and not living and growing. Faith grows, wisdom and understanding grows. Why stop? If stopped then it becomes a doctrine and spawns many mini doctrines to support itself. And it then becomes dead and not the Word of Life.

WordWolf I posted many scriptures, did you read them? btw i got that quote from what Oakspear posted i hope it's accurate. If it's not please post again, thank you.

Whether you agree with what was posted or not is not the point. Investigating it is. If you don't want to investigate it, fine with me. But why bring to the table that which I already know? And you know I know it. You are wasting my time And yours. Stay with what you want to believe. Some want to go further then what was shoved down our throats and never seen for ourselves. This is why I say your thinking is twi'ish and narrow minded. You will not even consider other perspectives. So once again why are you even posting on this thread? I made it clear from the beginning it's purpose. If you don't believe it or comprehend that's fine with me. There are those who do. Why do you stand in their way. Everyone already knows what vpw taught on this and you are presenting the same. Just a waste of breath. And that's all I have to say to those not interested in investigating more of what the deep hidden treasures of God are. And I didn't call anyone a clown. I said go play with the clowns. And I also apologized for the direct remarks. Mike has never done that. If you do not accept my apology then it's not my problem. It's yours.

Hey I'm friggin human and why should i put up with ridicule and not any kind of response pro or con to what i posted. I am the one being attacked or the message-who cares. Compare me to Mike-lol that's a riot. Most don't even know what Mike is doing. I put this stuff up for consideration. Not as some rock solid "doctrine". No "doctrine will "save"-the Lord himself shall descend from Heaven which is within. This is our spirit bearing witness with his which both are ONE as Ephesians points out. If you don't want to consider it-don't. And me and Todd have a bond that will never be broken. If you see that then you are at least seeing something. A spiritual club? HAHAHA We are all in the same spiritual club. Most just don't want to see it and want to be set apart like something that is special to them only. JUST LIKE THE WAY INTERNATIONAL. A club of people who claim to know but don't and furthermore they claim that others do not know. I have made no such claim. I said more then once you have the answers within and you still refuse to even look. So anyways, forgive my response that was too quick and not well thought through. Do you expect someone else to give you the answers? That is twi thinking. Jesus himself said the Kingdom of God is within you. Argue with him.

KJV: 1 Co 15:34 34Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. KJV: Eph 5:14 14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Why did you even post here Oakspear? The basis is clear to those who can READ. AND THINK. If you don't see it then what is your point? You will get a friggin demonstration, I have no doubt.

if you had any basis you might have an idea ****ing idiots are everywhere go play with them blind friggin clowns

no arguement to it WordWolf it's something you have to see for yourself I am not your teacher or leader or any such thing This is placed for consideration for those who are ready The compelling evidence will come from within

The hindu's budhists muslims jews christians and all the rest have spiritual insight. No one or at least not many want to look and see what they are saying and believing. It is quite a loss of available spiritualism that was so detested by VPW and his followers. VPW directed us against spiritualism, which is why he was so asleep to the spirit of God. And has Danny has been showing us time and time again there is a lot more to scripture then meets the natural eye. If you want to stay into some kind of rock solid doctrine that does not change, you will remain unchanged as 1 corinthians says. Who wants to see these changes now? The Word of God is for now, not later. It is alive and living in the hearts of those who believe, which is an ongoing PROCESS of God enlightening the eyes to His Spirit that has been given to us from the beginning.