WordWolf

[I provided the link because Mike's post was hidden in a reply. So, people can link and read all of what I'm replying to...] Mike: "The thing that is genuine "anti" in my proposed new term (Trademark Pending) is the reversal of excessive-love to excessive-hate. My theory is that most of the people who are very anti-wierwille now WERE very pro-wierwille when first taking the class. Finding out that VPW was not the holy man they idolized at first caused them to "snap" against him with with the same zeal as when they positively idolized him. It was a rush to idolize him and join the Corps early, and then a rush to anti-idolize him. In both rushes, there wasn't time to really sort things out properly." WordWolf: Taking people who dedicated themselves to God, their lives to God, who truly thought that loyalty was to God alone, and siphoning off that love of God and commitment, telling them this person was helping them get all of that done, then them finding out that the supposed leader, who supposedly dedicated his life to God, instead dedicated his life to alcoholism, tobacco, rape, molestation, and creature comforts, and all his talk about dedication to God was all a SMOKESCREEN for that, all a trick to get them to hand over all their money so he could booze up, smoke up, and live it up, while taking dedicated women who dedicated their lives to God and molested them and raped them, that will get an emotional reaction no matter who is involved. People went from completely buying into layer upon layer of snow job, to suddenly learning in one moment how FALSE it was, how FRAUDULENT vpw was, how HYPOCRITICAL he was, how PREDATORY he was. That's bound to get an emotional reaction- unless, of course, one decided never to actually address ANY of it. If one decided to blow all of it off under "boys will be boys", then things that outrage Jesus can be swept under the rug, and one can go on to ridicule people who have a legitimate emotional response to destroyed lives, hurt lives, capital crimes, causing God's people to hurt and stumble and savaging them. The only reasons I have this theory are: (1) because in the 1970s I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in “going ga-ga” over VPW, going WOW, and going into the Corps. I thought they went without thinking it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of love and excitement. I was slow with this; they were fast. (2) because from 1986 till now, I saw with my own eyes many grads go faster and farther than me in being enraged over VPW’s revealed sins, going ape over throwing away all he ever said did regardless of its truth value. I think few think it all through carefully, setting aside the emotions of anger and unnecessary emotion. I go slow with this. WordWolf: People encountered happy, genuine Christians. They were told the reason they were so happy was this group teaching the Bible. They visit the group and are told much the same. They join the happy, genuine Christians, enjoying fellowship with them (by the normal usage of the word.) They are told, repeatedly, that the key to being so happy is this class this guy teaches, and how everybody there all agrees. Eventually, they buy into it, and take the class taught by the man who called himself "THE TEACHER" and built up his image so everybody sold him like that. All through the class, there's grads who keep up the love and fellowship. Afterwards, they're treated as somewhat higher, having that in common with the happy, genuine Christians. They're talked into taking more classes. They're leaned on- carefully- to donate their time and money- first 10%, then more, then all of their discretionary income- because of how holy the organization is, how important to God its leader is, how hard he works for both God and his people. Convinced (eventually) that to grow most with God will be to go WOW, some go. When they return, they're treated like heroes. Then they're convinced that to REALLY grow with God will be to go Corps. Dedicated to God, these poor, naive kids go Corps and try their best, absorbing the lessons taught there- many of which were unhealthy and exploited their loyalty, all by the so-called godly leader. They put in thousands upon thousands of hours of their lives, and much of their income, even choosing lesser jobs so they can attend events once a year, all because they're trying to do their best for God, and told this is how they do it. Then, they discover it was all built on lies. The only legit Christianity there was the LOCAL form they FIRST experienced. All the legit Christians had been shilling for a fraud, a conman, who sold lots of classes, lots of books, lots of events, always making a profit at every level, a man whose teachings were all cobbled together from the work of other, legit Christians. This man then took that money, and spent lots on creature comforts, chain-smoked, drank all day because he was addicted to alcohol AND tobacco, and in between all that set up an ELABORATE system to rape and molest some of God's women, covering his tracks at every level. The most dedicated of God's people respond to that by being enraged. Then Mike comes along and dares to say there's something wrong with that-that their anger and emotion are "unnecessary", that they should ignore all of that and stay loyal to the alcoholic rapist because he taught some good Bible. Mike doesn't seem to get a lot of converts to his thinking- for which he blames the people he tries to recruit. "The good that came from PFAL and TWI-1 was far greater than the bad, and GreaseSpotters who can’t integrate this in their world-view will continue to have a terrible reputation with grads out there." WordWolf: This isn't about popularity, it's about TRUTH. When people come here- and lots of them come here- they come here to read the truth. The truth is that the good that came in early twi came from the Jesus People that were recruited. What vpw contributed mostly is the "bad" we object to- and most people have no trouble understanding that once they learn what was hidden from them BY vpw. People like Mike who can't integrate this in his world-view will spend the rest of their lives spinning their wheels and being allowed to show up places, but never quite getting the RESPECT he thinks he has earned. I have people who disagree with me fundamentally on all sorts of stuff, but most of them respect me nonetheless, because I have earned their respect through integrity if nothing else. I've interacted with grads out there. They have no problem finding out what I believe. I have a GOOD reputation among them, and when I speak on God's Word, they take it seriously (I have proof.) it's possible that the good in twi- which came from the Jesus People- was far greater than the bad- the rapes, molestations, vices, greed, vanity and so on that came from vpw- but even if it was, I'd be slow to say so, especially to those who were victimized by vpw and his system. Is human life subject to CALCULATIONS, how much HARM is worth how much BLESSING? The Blessing of The Lord benefits with NO SORROW added with it. That's not a description of twi in ANY era. Have you ever researched around with old grads to find out what they think of GreaseSpot? [I know that they all come here when they want the truth on what twi is doing lately or has done since they checked in last- including people who are embarrassed to SAY they check in here. I know twi's innies come here to find out the truth on twi. I know twi's hierarchy knows all that- they insisted we post a letter of theirs to their own followers in order to do damage control on what information leaked out via the GSC. And there's thousands who posted here and have moved on with their lives- GSC success stories. I'm sure there's a few grads to whom this does not apply- there's always a minority- but I'm not going to throw away integrity and truth just to try to cozy up to people who value both so little that they spurn the GSC. I'm not here to make friends- although I've made some anyway- people who DO value truth and integrity. I do have a reputation, and it's not for being snuggly-wuggly, it's for telling the unadulterated truth. I didn't get that overnight nor by accident. It was the by-product of many decisions to value truth and integrity. People who don't make those decisions may get baffled as to how anyone can disagree with me or even dislike me, but still respect me. Well. the answer is there for those who want to know.]

One of the themes in this 2nd movie was one of contrasts. We saw the protagonist contrasted clearly with one villain, we saw him contrasted more faintly with the other, we saw him contrasted with his father, we saw him contrasted with his best friend. We also saw the 2 female characters contrasted with each other, and his best friend contrasted with one villain. We saw vices contrasted with each other, fast living was dangerous living. Finally, we saw the forces representing the establishment- or, more to the point, one representative of each- contrasted with each other.

That's because you can see how history progresses. To someone looking to exonerate those who set the stage, history is something that happened all at once, with nothing leading to it.

"TWI circa 1971-1982 was vastly different, and free of the Corps elitism that took over when Craig took over in 1982. Oddly, there is much testimony here from Ralph D about this good phase of unsupervised witnessing of Jesus AND the class that happened on Long Island. " You can't get the differences because you refuse to look at them. twi circa 1971 was vpw reeling in all the House of Acts Jesus People, and sending them out on the road. People saw legit Christians- the Jesus People- and were told (by naive Jesus People who didn't MEAN to lie but were genuinely mistaken) that there was a connection between what people saw and twi, vpw, pfal. There was not. The twi growth all stems from THOSE people. What was vpw's "contribution" to this? Mostly the labels of twi, pfal, himself, and the Corps elitism he slowly dropped on them. The Corps elitism didn't suddenly arrive in 1982. vpw set it up, inflicted it on lcm, and inflicted it on Jesus People and on people they recruited. twi circa 1982 was the result of twi 1971-1981, and THAT was the result of what vpw had made it. Anyone who can't see that isn't looking. History doesn't drop out of the sky, it happens every day.

" I think this is a side-effect of all the building and maintaining an anti-idol, that eclipses objective and accurately detailed essays on the history of TWI. Few here even try to emulate the objective standards that still exist in professional journalism. I often try to UN-BLUR the differences." Mike, I think you're the only one you're successfully conning that you have anything in common with professional journalists. Your standards are anything BUT objective, and you're rather PROUD you have one standard for vpw and one standard for everyone else. That's NOT objective. Also, making up terms just to hang them on people who disagree with you isn't journalism.

It's like a fish extolling the virtues of the line because of how delicious the BAIT was. False dilemna. Nobody expected that. Nobody expects it now. Nobody complains vpw wasn't perfect. We complain he was a plagiarizing rapist whose "ministry" was built on genuine Christians upon whose work a fraud propped himself. HE was a fake, and that's not what we wanted, nor what we were told at the time. For those of us able to distinguish the bait from the hook, the appeal of "come back to pfal" just isn't going to snag us. If there were any "great truths", it wasn't because vpw was legit, it was because vpw needed the legit to bait the hook. My God is not that small that I have to fall for that con to receive truths or blessings. In an absolute sense, sin is sin. From the view on the ground, it's very insulting to compare the types of sin you might encounter here- flashes of anger, moments of bad judgement, seeking God through false idols presented as preachers- and serial rapists using God's Word as their cover, and God's People as their merchandise. If I ever sin at the level the plagiarizing rapist did, may the villagers hang me or burn me at the stake before I make as many victims as he did.

Next movie. Cesar Romero Norman Fell Red Skelton

I don't think the clues are pointing this way, but I have to ask- "CARRIE?"

From the fifth and final link on the first post.... https://truthwatchers.com/the-word-of-faith-heresy/ The Word of Faith Heresy After studying the Word-Faith movement, Hank Hanegraaff, determined the Faith movement was considerably a cult, saying, “Given these definition of a cult, it is completely justified to characterize particular groups within the Faith movement as cults – either theologically or sociologically or, in some cases, both….Copeland Ministries, headed by Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, for example bears all the marks of a cult.”1) But because of the diversity of teachers and teachings within the Faith movement, Hanegraaff concludes, “Thus, while certain groups within the Faith movement can be properly classified as cults, the word cultic more aptly describes the movement as a whole.”2) There have been various opinions about the Word-Faith movement over the years. Judith Matta considers “the Word-Faith teaching is perhaps the most subtle, heretical system to emerge in our own times.”3) Rod Rosenbladt, wrote, “Virtually all of the leading American TV ministers have drunk at the trough of the esoteric, Swedenborgian, theosophical speculations of the late E. W. Kenyon.”4) Many other who have researched this movement would agree with Rosenbladt considering Word-Faith occultism. For example, Hanegraaff’s predecessor Walter Martin added quotations from a leading proponent of Word-Faith doctrines, Kenneth Copeland, in his last published book before his death entitled The New Age Cult.5) Evidently, Dr. Walter Martin considered Copeland and the Faith movement part of the New Age movement. Albert Dagger compares Copeland’s doctrines with “theosophists,”6) and equates positive confession as “a tenet of witchcraft.”7) After quoting Yonggi Cho, another Word-Faith teacher, Mark Haville asks, “Is this a model for prayer or casting a spell?”8) John MacArthur wrote, “Word Faith theology has turned Christianity into a system no different from the lowest human religions – a form of voodoo where God can be coerced, cajoled, manipulated, controlled, and exploited for the Christian’s own end.”9) Robert Bowman proposed, “Of all the critics of the Word-Faith teaching who regard it as heretical, John MacArthur seemed to labor the hardest at striking a balance… issuing his judgment…”10) In McArthur’s more recent book Strange Fire, he wrote of the Word-Faith movement: “They are promoting crass superstition blended with false doctrines purloined from assorted Gnostic and metaphysical cults, cloaked in Christian terms and symbols.”11) The core teaching of Faith theology is properly identified in the following assessment. “Faith as an external force and human ability to manipulate the supernatural by words are beliefs common in pagan magic, but are entirely foreign to biblical faith.”12) Johanna Michaelsen, a former occultist, explains the history behind this thought. “In ancient Egypt, the followers of the Egyptian god Thot (the master of all knowledge and originator of alchemy) believed that thoughts were real things, with vibrational and energy levels of their own which could be manipulated to produce physical effects. In other words, what you think is what you get.”13) She further asserts, “Put aside all critical faculties, enter an altered state of consciousness, have faith in your faith, and allow the Force to work through you. Nothing shall be withheld from you if only you believe! Herein lies the basis of all occult power. This is how channelers become channelers, how occultists develop occult powers, and how millions of our school children become open to demonic beings.”14) John Ankerberg and John Weldon, acknowledged in Facts On False Teaching In The Church: Some of those stressing the power of the mind, “faith” or Positive Thinking include: Robert Schuller – “Possibility Thinking”; Clement Stone – “Positive Mental Attitude”; Norman Vincent Peale, the modern “founder” of positive thinking; Oral Roberts’ “Seed-Faith” principles; the teachings of Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland, also known as “Word-Faith” teaching; Paul Yonggi Cho, who stresses a health and prosperity gospel; and Charles Capps and many others who stress “Positive Confession.” The terms Positive Confession, Prosperity Thinking, Theology of Success Movement, or “name it and claim it” are all terms used to describe those stressing the power of faith as a force to influence the environment of God.15) Word-Faith preacher Pat Robertson admits his principles are the same used by occultists such as Napoleon Hill. “I began to realize… the Bible is not an impractical book of theology, but rather a practical book of life containing a system of thought and conduct that will guarantee success [with] principles so universal they might better be considered as laws…such people as Napoleon Hill, who wrote Think and Grow Rich, have gleaned only a few of the truths of the kingdom of God…. Some of the metaphysical principles of the kingdom, taken by themselves, can produce fantastic temporal benefits.”16) Commenting on this statement from Pat Robertson, Dave Hunt distinguishes that, Napoleon Hill was an occultist who learned his “metaphysical principle” from demons who came to him from the spirit world posing as masters of a “temple of wisdom.” Peale, Schuller, Robertson, Hagin, Copeland, and others, have brought into the church ancient occultism as part of the “signs and wonders” and “prosperity” movement foretold for the last days.17) Constance Cumbey criticizes Pat Robertson‘s book, observing: There are disturbingly strong parallels in them with Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, including the Alice Bailey teachings, and even Russian occultist George Gurdjieff. Robertson’s Law of Reciprocity sounds amazingly like Gurdjieff’s “Law of Reciprocal Maintenance.”18) Further alerting the influence of Robertson‘s television show, Cumbey mentioned, “While he has denied Biblical inerrancy, he has at the same time given important New Agers such as Jeremy Rifkin and Alvin Toffler access to his 30 million plus Christian viewing audience. He has done likewise for promoters of questionable, even blatantly New Age oriented – theologies, including Richard Foster, Bruce Larson, Robert Schuller, and Dennis Waitley.”19) And, “Rifkin has boasted to interviewers that Robertson’s program has been one of his chief entry points to the Evangelicals.”20) Leaders of the Word-Faith movement have admitted the similarities of their teachings with metaphysics, but try to deny it. E. W. Kenyon, the forefather of Faith theology wrote, “We are not dealing with mysticism, philosophy or metaphysics. We are dealing with realities. …we are dealing with the basic laws of man’s being, the great spiritual laws that govern the unseen forces of life.”21) Assessing this statement, D. R. McConnell explains: Kenyon claims that his teaching is not metaphysical and then immediately follows his disclaimer with a central dogma of metaphysics. For example, when he speaks of “the great spiritual laws that govern the unseen forces of life,” he is espousing deism, the metaphysical world view that the universe is governed by impersonal, spiritual laws rather [sic] that a personal, sovereign God.22) Kenyon again applies this method of disclaiming his metaphysic doctrine prior to teaching it. “This is not a new metaphysics of philosophy. This is reality. This is God breaking into the sense realm.”23) And again, McConnell points out the obvious. When Kenyon refers to “God breaking into the sense realm,” he is espousing dualism, which is the metaphysical view of reality that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are mutually exclusive and even opposed to one another.24) Kenyon‘s frequent disclaimers, such as: “This is not psychological or metaphysics,”25) have been repeated by Kenneth Hagin who wrote: “When I preach on the mind, it frightens some congregations. They immediately think of Christian Science.”26) Vinson Synan reported: Hagin insists “Kenyon’s influence on my ministry has been minute. Only his teachings on the name of Jesus have much to do with my theology. I absolutely deny any metaphysical influence from Kenyon. I teach not Christian Science, but Christian sense.”27) Here we find an interesting admission from Hagin; he considers Kenyon’s teachings in line with Christian Science and metaphysics, yet, D. R. McConnell documented extensive plagiarism of E. W. Kenyon by Kenneth Hagin.28) While Hagin has always attempted to separate himself from anything to do with metaphysics, he has now placed himself in that very camp as he has endorsed Kenyon’s writings, even calling it revelation from God. “I began to look around to see what I could find written on the subject. For others, you see, have revelations from God. I was amazed how little material there is in print on this subject. The only good book devoted entirely to it that I have found is E. W. Kenyon’s The Wonderful Name of Jesus. I encourage you to get a copy. It is a marvelous book. It is revelation knowledge. It is the Word of God.”29) When accused of plagiarizing Kenyon, Vinson Synan related Hagin response: “the Holy Spirit gave him the same words as Kenyon without his having prior knowledge of the sources.”30) If we allow Hagin the benefit of the doubt, consider how the Mormons and Irvingites had no contact but they received revelations with correlating doctrines. Hank Hanegraaff also documents a number of Kenneth Copeland’s teachings with “striking similarities” of Mormon theology.31) P. Atkinson’s doctorate thesis on the “Jesus died spiritually” doctrine of the Word Faith movement stated, “Copeland can now be regarded as the unofficial leader of the wole Word-faith movement.”32) …………..

Nice suit.

How about "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind????"

That was Rush's "the Spirit of Radio." FREE POST!

No dang? I'd vaguely heard of the third movie as a story where they play ghosts, but that was a long time ago.

"Abbott and Costello???????????"

Was this the remake of "Total Recall"? They sound like things that MIGHT have been said in TR but weren't. at least not in the version with AS.

Jack Palance Batman Jack Nicholson

I'll give it a few more hours.

It's hardly impossible to show how fake Pikes Peak/Burton was.

So, ONE poster from dozens agrees with Mike on one thing, and it's a great victory. Furthermore, the ONE person MUST be correct, and the DOZENS of people MUST be wrong- because otherwise, Mike is wrong as usual.

Research Geek had an extensive history at twi. Mike wasn't thrilled with that background, since RG could call Mike on things he knew, as an insider, that Mike did not. I think most people who arrived here didn't think there was any significant problem with vpw when they arrived, and learned otherwise over time. That certainly applied to me. There also have been a handful of people (a small handful trickling through over 2 decades) who were slow to accept the ideas of some things reported about what vpw did, what vpw said, etc. After all, it's almost fantastic to believe that vpw was a reputable Bible teacher, then hear that he was drugging women and raping them, plagiarizing all of his best work, etc, etc. So, when it comes to Research Geek, I think he was slow to accept the full depths of vpw's depravity. This affected what he was willing to see, and willing to say. It IS true that Princeton Theological Seminary is an actual school, and the Masters from there was accredited and legit. What is a problem from there was vpw phrasing himself- and getting others to do the same- to prevaricate and to insinuate he went to PRINCETON UNIVERSITY. Whenever anyone says they went to school at PRINCETON, it's automatic that anyone would think it was Princeton UNIVERSITY- unless they were a staffer at PTS or lived on-grounds or something. Across the US, around the world, Princeton UNIVERSITY has a reputation. So, when they said he had a Masters at "Princeton" and said nothing else, the implication was that it was the University- and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional. As for Pike's Peak, RG was slow to "call a spade a spade." Pike's Peak was one of many degree mills at the time. The degree was unaccredited. ("They have as much authority to grant a degree as Schlotski's Deli!" - Al Franken.) The campus was nonexistent, the library was virtually nonexistent, and students only showed up on campus once or twice total. Pike's Peak has never come up in discussions about what a great education it offered, how it built a good reputation, etc. All discussions are about how it was a degree mill. Research Geek was HONESTLY MISTAKEN, calling PP "experimental" and trying to grant it every benefit of every doubt. However, the facts are in, and Pike's Peak was a degree mill. vpw himself knew that, and he said freely that people kept saying he didn't get a degree. That's a half-truth- they said he didn't get a REAL doctorate, a doctorate from an ACCREDITED institution. Naturally,by saying only part of the truth, he framed the claims to put himself in the best light and pretend his detractors had no basis for criticizing him. BTW, RG once asked a good question, and it's time that question got answered. vpw went to a legit school for his Masters- PTS. He KNEW that PP was a degree mill. Why, then, would he go THERE for his degree, knowing it was a degree mill? (RG phrased it a bit more positively for PP, but he knew vpw knew PP had a bad rep, yet he went there anyway.) So, why did vpw go? Why go to a place to get an unaccredited doctorate instead of a place to get an accredited doctorate? To ask the question is to have the answer. We know all about vpw's behavior now, and this was not uncharacteristic of vpw. vpw was a very lazy student. Everybody said so. His father said so, even when leaning on a school and saying he'd be a good student there. He plagiarized his way through his sermons in his pastorate, finding it a chore to read the Bible every week to prepare a sermon. According to vpw, TWICE in his first year, he thought of giving up as a pastor. So, lazy vpw made it through a Bachelors. Lazy vpw went to a real school for his Masters, and even picking the softest option- Homiletics- worked far harder than he wished to get his Masters. When faced with a few more years of even harder work, vpw decided to go the lazy route and FAKE IT. He approached a fake school and got their fake degree, largely retyping his Masters thesis as his Doctoral dissertation. His check cleared, they had a paper as a pretext to granting the degree, and vpw got his "doctorate." That saved vpw time, work, and money, and got him a Doctorate. Ever notice how he HID the name of the place he got his Doctorate from? "He got his Masters from Princeton. He later went on to complete his Doctorate." That made it sound like he got both from Princeton. Why did he hide the name? He was well aware how it made him look that he got a "doctorate" from a degree mill.

In case you're wondering how he managed to finish the sandwich in time, there's 2 answers, and I think both apply in part. 1) Pike's Peak wasn't exactly demanding with the requirements on the submitted doctoral thesis. 2) vpw submitted the same work to PTS for his Masters that he submitted to PP for his Doctorate. Both papers were about Peter as a preacher. It's been mentioned here before that a proper Doctoral dissertation can't be the same subject as the Masters thesis, they both have to be different subjects. (Both have to demonstrate a wide grasp of the studied material.) So, the paper that got him a legit Masters from PTS was largely the same paper that got him his unaccredited "Doctorate" from PP.

So, the first time you heard that vpw went to "Princeton", you immediately said "Obviously that was Princeton Theological Seminary, not Princeton University." Sorry, I can't buy that. I'm calling that an outright lie. And hardly a surprise by now.

Just applying Occam's Razor. It's possible, but less likely. I'd need something more concrete than opinions before going there. The current evidence was enough to support any one of the three. It's my OPINION it's not the second, but either the first, or the third, although both is certainly within the realm of possibility. I try not to jump to something because it's "possible" without something more solid to go on.

That link had a second part..... https://www.harmonychurchofgod.org/spiritual-faqs/the-false-teaching-of-the-word-of-faith-movement-part-2 " THE FALSE TEACHING OF THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT, Part 2 THE FALSE TEACHING OF THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT, Part 2 By: Jack Guyler I covered two of the primary flaws and errors in this movement in Part 1. I want to cover two additional errors of this movement here in Part 2. FALSE TEACHING #3 POWER & COMFORT ARE SIGNS OF GOD’S BLESSINGS There is a teaching that is derived from the Old Testament that says “don’t touch God’s anointed.” This has become a catch-all phrase in many Charismatic and Pentecostal circles that insulates pastors, teachers and other leaders from even being asked to address anything they are doing that might not be in good character, let alone abusive. Even when people know their leaders are doing wrong, they have been indoctrinated to turn a blind eye and say “we can’t say or do anything to God’s anointed.” The real belief here is, if they say or do anything against their leaders, something worse will happen to them – like karma coming back to bite them! This allows many leaders to run free and do what they want with little to no accountability. This is one of the reasons why you see so many high profile pastors and teachers living such extravagant life-styles and getting away with perverse and abusive behavior for long periods of time. It is also why they get away with teaching false doctrines such as Word of Faith because no one would dare challenge them. The real issue with false doctrine and teaching (when persons stray from the basic core tenants of Christianity established by the early church and confirmed by various church councils and creeds) is not just that it is bad teaching. But bad teaching leads to bad thinking; and bad thinking leads to corrupt behaviors, patterns and habits. And over time, these become the norm or status quo. When these are established as such, no one much questions them anymore. And then they are passed around as “truth” and passed down from one generation to the next, no one thinks to look deeper into them anymore and they become an established way of both thinking and behavior. Unfortunately, these types of thoughts and behaviors don’t align with the righteous and holy teaching of scripture. And because of this, many Word of Faith teachers are telling the people in the pews and their online audiences that when they see power and comfort, it is a sign that these people are walking with God. This justifies their own self-centered life-styles and it encourages people to pursue wealth, power, prestige and comfort more than Jesus. So you can see how this teaching is the very antithesis of the true Gospel. What does the true Gospel teach? It isn’t all doom and gloom, but it is about sacrifice and surrendering to the Lord. In fact, the Apostle Paul said his greatest joy and peace came from knowing and even suffering for the Lord. He wouldn’t exchange his life style as a Pharisee with great power and prestige, for knowing Christ. He wouldn’t go back to this life if he could have. Paul learned the true power of the Gospel. Listen to what he says: “I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish that I may gain Christ…” Paul also learned that power was found in weakness because it was in this place where he really found connection with Christ, not in the pursuit of money, power, prestige and worldly things. Listen again to what he says: “Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” God’s real favor is not found in power and prestige as the Word of Faith lies to you about, but rather in weakness that leads to knowing Christ. Do you see the error of this teaching? FALSE TEACHING #4 YOU CAN CREATE REALITY WITH YOUR OWN WORDS This is derived from the early words in Genesis where it is written, “And God says…” and then He created all various aspects of our universe including humans. They then take a big leap and say, because God created and brought things into existence with words, because we have the capacity to speak words, we too can create new realities and bring new things into existence. While human words are powerful, and ideas are equally powerful in helping us see things in a new way and gain new perspectives and insights; only God can actually create things out of nothing and create new realities. This is really a mix of other religions with humanism. It is placing ourselves in the position of God. As I recall, the first humans tried to act and become like God. How did that work out for them? The truth is, this has been repeated by every human being that has ever lived. We all try to be god in their own lives and often in the lives of others. I can tell you it never works out well! There is a reason God is God and we are not. We don’t have the power, insight, knowledge or eternal substance to be God. We are dependent creatures on the Creator – but for some reason, this is a very difficult lesson for us to learn. And the Word of Faith movement continues to perpetuate this lie by telling you that you can create reality with your words. Yes, it is true that we can live out self-fulfilling prophecies to our detriment; and yes thinking positively can help us in many situations, but we can’t create new realities with our words. The one eternal change we can make using our words is found in Romans 10:9-10 “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him form the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” May we use our words wisely in prayer and in sharing the Word of God rather than trying to use them simply for our own purposes. The Word of Faith movement looks to use words to benefit themselves, not glorify God and build up others."

Fourth link of the first post: https://www.harmonychurchofgod.org/spiritual-faqs/the-false-teaching-of-the-word-and-faith-movement-part-1 " THE FALSE TEACHING OF THE WORD AND FAITH MOVEMENT, Part 1 THE FALSE TEACHING OF THE WORD AND FAITH MOVEMENT, Part 1 By: Jack Guyler The Word of Faith false teaching is running like poison through the Body of Christ. It is propagated by some of the richest and most famous teachers in America such as Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer and Benny Hinn. There are many others as well. Many are found regularly on the Trinity Broadcast Network (TBN). They all teach a version of this very destructive false teaching that many people both inside and outside of the church look to as their source of Christian teaching. Some even call this faith teaching heresy or a “different gospel.” We aren’t here to judge these men and women as to the type of persons they are, but we do need to alert you to their teachings so you can distinguish between false and true Christian teaching. So what are these teachings and what is the truth according to the New Testament? FALSE TEACHING #1 GOD IS REQUIRED TO OBEY YOUR WORDS They will take a verse such as Mark 11:24 that says, “I tell you whatever you ask for in prayer, believe you have received it and it will be yours.” They take these words literally and out of context. They teach words have power. And we know that words do have power. We know our words can greatly affect other people for good or bad. We know the power that words have over children from parents for example. But they take it a step further and mix the contractual covenant of the Old Covenant between God and Israel into their teaching and say that God is contractually obligated to obey your words if you are living in alignment with God’s laws. And while it is true we always benefit from living by God’s laws, He is not under any obligation to hear our words and then act accordingly. Remember, this is God – the one who created you and the universe! We don’t get to say “frog” and then God says, “how high do you want me to jump?” DANGER IN THIS TEACHING 1. Our faith is built on faulty misconceptions. If we follow this line of thinking, we end up thinking we can control God through our words. This really puts us in the position of “god” rather than God in our thinking and faith. We can pray using words and ask God to meet our wants and needs, but we need to remember He is God and He knows what is best for us. Prayer should not be a way to strong-arm God or manipulate Him 2. It sets us up for disappointment. If we think we can always pray or say away anything bad coming our way, we aren’t living in the real world. People every day die from the coronavirus, cancer, accidents, murder and other things. People get sick…people get hurt…people get divorced…people lose their jobs… Jesus prayed in the Garden to have the cup of suffering pass from Him, but it didn’t. Paul prayed that his thorn would be removed three times, but it wasn’t. What is true according to Jesus and the New Testament is that we should pray, but we should also know we live in a broken world and we will experience pain and disappointment. But the even greater truth is that a compassionate God will experience it with us and one day provide a new heaven and a new earth for us to enjoy together for eternity FALSE TEACHING #2 HEALTH & WEALTH IS SIGN OF GOD’S FAVOR There is a reason why the Word of Faith Movement is also known as the “Prosperity Gospel” or the “Health and Wealth Gospel.” It is because they teach that if you are following God’s laws, then you will have favor with God and one of the signs of His favor is health and wealth. Much of what they teach is about giving to God – what this usually translates into is you with little money giving generous donations to their lavish ministries. Is it any wonder that many of the high profile teachers in this movement live in million dollar homes, own private jets and vacation in extravagant locations? DANGER IN THIS TEACHING 1. It leads to the pursuit of money and power. People who are living as if this teaching were true, pursue wealth and a self-absorbed life. While they are believing wealth is a sign of God’s favor, they are missing such passages as Matthew 6:19-21 and 1 Timothy 6:9-11 that talk about how deadly the pursuit of money can be for one’s soul 2. It keeps people from living out of grace. Because you have to pursue the image of wealth to portray God’s favor in your life, you are unable to live out the gift of salvation that God has graciously given you. You spend your whole life working and pursuing an image that you are favored by God rather than resting in the real thing 3. It causes people who follow this teaching as truth to look down on those who are poor or sick. Again, they forget that Jesus didn’t have much in terms of earthly possessions. They forget that Paul forsook earthly power, titles and riches to follow Christ. They forget that the disciples suffered much for the sake of Christ 4. And maybe worst of all, when this teaching gets into you it becomes toxic because you end up wanting what God gives you more than wanting God. This is the height of idolatry!