WordWolf

There's still people claiming it's a lot nicer now in twi, and all the not-nice people have left. Bushwah!

I'd heard that here, with no names attached to the story. I'd heard that some graduate of the DC course had been reteaching the material without notifying DC nor paying royalties, at vpw's order. Since this was completely how vpw did things, it didn't surprise me one bit- except, possibly, that it was still known by the name of the originating material and not some new program vpw and God concocted together in a church basement while vpw ate grapes while miraculous snow fell, or something. Then again, too many people knew that's where the material was from, so he couldn't hide the name without making it obvious he was doing that- which would reveal he was capable of plagiarizing the work of others, and he didn't WANT to get caught or even suspected. I also know lcm said that vpw complained that too many corps weren't REALLY committed, and were just in it to learn the DC course material (lcm said so in "vp and me.") It's amazing how many things vpw found to complain about when it came to the wc students while he had them on-grounds and paying and doing manual labor- but never found any reason to make the program more selective, drawing fewer numbers but also less tuition and fewer bodies to perform manual labor while paying for the privilege.

I imagine you haven't heard the title of the third- if you had, you, personally, would find it difficult to forget once you'd heard it. As for the second, in playing, the important part would involve remembering the words to the songs, but you need to remember the words to the title. :)

Mira Sorvino Mighty Aphrodite Helena Bonham Carter

"Don't cry for me, next door neighbor." "Oh, Danny boy, Danny boy, Danny boy!" "He drinks a whiskey drink, he drinks a vodka drink, he drinks a lager drink, he drinks a cider drink, He sings the songs that remind him of the good times, he sings the songs that remind him of the best times."

Ok, let's see if anyone can answer this one. This is a round about game-shows about songs. Name any one to take the round. A) Joey Fatone hosted this show. He showed up, and began singing to the music the band played. He went around the audience, and stopped and passed the microphone to an audience-member who then sang the next line, If they did it correctly, he sent them onstage to compete in the episode. (Repeat until the entire panel was filled from the audience.) Some rounds had the song posted with lots of words missing like holes in Swiss cheese, and there were points for each correct fill-in by a singer. A number of contestants began and were quickly eliminated until the final round, where someone competed solo for a the finale. B) Made to compete with Joe Fatone's show, this show quickly became more popular. Wayne Brady hosted this show. It was said you didn't have to sing well, you just had to [game show title], more or less. Contests went with a single contestant at a time, trying to sing the words to the songs. Each round, they had to pick one of the posted categories, then pick one of the 2 songs posted, then sing the words. Each round, they had to pick another until all the categories were eliminated, and each round requited slightly more missing words filled in. The final round they had to decide to move forward and risk it all, or take their money and run, all with no assistance and only the CATEGORY revealed, not the single song they would have to sing. There also were some celebrity episodes with them playing for charity, which I quite liked. Oh, and the assists were 1 each of 3 assists: select 2 of the missing words to be filled, select for 3 lines to be shown with one of them being the correct line they needed, and bring up your back-up singer to the microphone to sing it for you (if you think they know the answer.) My favorite moment was when Meat Loaf brought up his back-up singer, his friend Patty. She came up and announced "I am The Meat Patty!" before going for the answer. C) This more recent show was hosted by Jamie Foxx. It had several teams of 2 players trying to identify songs that they heard, by picking their titles from a list. The points went to the one with the right answer- or the FASTEST correct answer if 2 or 3 got it correct.) The final round had the top team try to name songs without a list, and identify them by sound before the show's dreaded music app could name the songs. They could potentially take home a million dollars (split 2 ways) if they could perform the show's title.

"It was a beautiful day, the sun beat down, I had the radio, I was driving."

But then you might have made "MONEY FOR NOTHING" and gotten your chicks for free, like Dire Straits' song lamented. Supposedly, Mark K was standing behind a stranger at a display window of TVs set to MTV, when the stranger began complaining, sour grapes fashion, about the soft life of MTV musicians. Mark then adapted the guy's rant into the lyrics of a new song. I can't prove that, but the specificity of the rant (the guy is a deliveryman for an appliance store) sure sounds like it came from a specific person.

For a number of years, I'm aware that twi's way corps taught their students the entire contents of the Dale Carnegie Sales Training course without paying any licensing fees to the company- nor any other fee, for that matter. Does anyone know if they still cheat Dale Carnegie to this day?

The Zappa and Liberace clues threw me off. This is "THE MONKEES."

Next song. "Don't cry for me, next door neighbor." "Oh, Danny boy, Danny boy, Danny boy!" (Anyone guessing "Danny Boy" as the song will get his nose honked.)

Ok, I was thinking this was The Beatles, but apparently it was John Lennon solo. The title's something like "I'M JUST SITTING HERE WATCHING THE WHEELS GO ROUND AND ROUND." (I think.)

"I was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar, that much is true. But even then I knew I'd find a much better place, either with or without you." This is "DON'T YOU WANT ME," by- I think- the Human League. Neat lyrics.

We don't have EXACT stats because twi has been hiding their numbers all along, and kept doubling-down on it every time a mass exodus hit (1985, 1989, etc). The 1989 purge cleared out 4 out of every 5 members overall, which was the biggest percentage drop in one year of which I'm aware. The most reliable method of numbers has always been headcounts at the ROA. The rule of thumb was that 1/2 the people attended. So, the highest attendance was, IIRC, for ROA 79 or 82 or something, and it was 24,000 people. Doubling that for the 1/2 who stayed home gave us 48,000 twi members at the time. Yes, twi bled members from 1985 to 1989, but it was only after lcm drew his line in the sand, DEMANDED AN OATH OF LOYALTY TO HIM PERSONALLY, and fired any leader who gave any other answer like "I vow to serve God". So, between ROA 88 and ROA 89, the ROA attendance collapsed to 1/5 the 88 attendance. Of course, some people waited until the end of ROA 89 to leave for good, so ROA 90 was even SMALLER. In case you're wondering what lcm meant about the oath of loyalty, one twi'er phoned and spoke to him personally- they knew each other. He told lcm it sounded like he wanted everyone in twi to follow him BLINDLY. lcm replied that he (the caller) was already doing that. The caller disagreed ("I told him that if that's what he thought, he could kiss my @$$ and hung up.") Since then, some people have tried to excuse lcm for this, and kept imagining what lcm meant. None of them ever defended his claim that lcm insisted twi was to follow him BLINDLY. The number you were quoted was an error. vpw claimed that there were 100,000 names in "the book of life"- that is, a total of 100,000 people had ever signed up for pfal. The implications that 100,000 people ever were in twi were dishonest. With all classes, some people never turned up for Session 1. Some people who did never turned up for Session 12. And some people vanished either right after Session 12 or in their first month thereafter. When I took pfal, we had 8 people on the roll, with 7 attending the first session, and THREE completing Session 12- myself, a coordinator's wife, and a different coordinator's son. So, claiming the 100,000 who ever signed up was deceptive. When it comes to twi, it is amazing how many levels of lie there were. Every time I think I've heard it all, I find out something else.

*looks it over* It's available for a donation or for free, but you have to sign up to attend in advance, so that's important to know. Any idea if they will make it available to view afterwards? This looks pretty weighty but informative for those who can attend.

Some years ago, we had active discussions on each of those things you mentioned! They are all archived around these fora somewhere. Yes, once witnessing was done that hardcore. Why has it cooled off? twi has lost almost 100% of its membership- from a one-time high of about 48,000 to possibly 480 adults by now. Different purges cleared out everyone who wasn't willing to march off a cliff if lcm commanded it or whatever, so all the quality Christians left sooner or left later. The remaining people are too few to risk, and Rosa-lie's leadership was too phlegmatic to inspire people to ridiculous and dangerous feats. There were those who witnessed because they were excited. They all left and twi is BORING.

It DEFINITELY existed in VHS. My family NEVER went Beta, so it wasn't until twi gave up and began releasing VHS videos (probably late 1987 or early 1988) that I got any VIDEOS from twi. I didn't get much- WC's "Fundamentals of Biblical Research" I had as audiocassettes and as VHS, and I had AOS. Both of them used the labels from the Beta versions- the AOS VHS case contained a label that was too small to fit normally. But I am 100% sure I OWNED the VHS version once, and even played it at home for non-twi people at least once. EDIT- If you look at Nova3200's photo, you'll see what I mean, a VHS case with a Beta label that doesn't fit like most VHS labels did.

As for vpw's explanation of "love God, love your neighbor, then you can do as you fool well please" was both UNINFORMATIVE and INCORRECT. The entire purpose of that was to INSERT vpw's "private interpretation" (as he would call it) into a verse that did not contain "do as you fool well please." The goal was to get people used to the idea that God Almighty was fine with them "doing as they fool well pleased". However, that contradicted the actual verses. It's so obvious. IF you actually A) love God Almighty with everything you've got and B) love your neighbor like you love yourself, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to "do as you fool well please." Your actions will reflect pleasing God and being a good neighbor and making God and neighbor happy. And before anyone claims that just applied to someone living next door, Jesus himself clarified "who is my neighbor" with the parable of The Good Samaritan. THAT was the example Jesus gave. Luke 10: 29-37 KJV 29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? 30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. Which was the example Jesus gave? He found the stranger, and had him healed and taken care of at his own expense. "Go and do thou likewise." As for the priest and the Levite, who SUPPOSEDLY served God and avoided the stranger who needed help? They did as they fool well pleased. According to vpw, that was FINE- becuase he was setting the stage for himself to have free reign to do whatever he wanted to, and encourage likewise. vpw had FAR more in common with the religious hypocrites of Jesus' day than with the disciples he CLAIMED to resemble (and insinuate he outperformed.)

BTW, this "if you COULD be in danger somewhere else, it doesn't matter if you're in danger here" thing was standard vpw. vpw made mandatory some practices that exposed women to what healthy people would consider UNACCEPTABLE RISKS. With them hitchhiking, some of them ended up getting raped- which should not have been a surprise if the potential for risk was even considered. Naturally, it got back to vpw that some women got raped as a result of following his instructions. Did he reconsider the risks and change things to lower the risks while maintaining a program? No, he doubled-down and told off the Corps for bringing it up. His only comment on record about the risks of a woman getting raped as a result of being forced to hitchhike was to say that they could get raped down near their location. The idea that one was an increased risk that was avoidable never even seemed to occur to him. The idea that he should make reasonable efforts to keep people safe never occurred to him- people got injured or killed doing mandatory activities like rock-climbing in addition to hitchhiking (which carried risks of death and rape.) Other Christian groups don't require those because they actually care about their students and take their LEGAL fiduciary responsibility seriously. As for vpw, he was all talk about "loving his kids" but kept them in harms way because it was cheaper and funneled more money back to HQ where he could dip into it- and he did. Amazingly, I've heard people defend this kind of thinking- as if there was no way to challenge the students without placing them in risk of life, limb or rape. It's NOT difficult, which is why non-twi groups don't have this sort of problem. And only vpw fans insist this sort of thing is a good idea or possibly even necessary.

As I've said many times before- I'm glad I got in, and I'm glad I got out.

"Now, when I was just a little boy, standin' to my Daddy's knee, my poppa said, "Son, don't let the man get you- do what he done to me."

Next song. "You don't need a penny just to hang around. But if you've got a nickel, won't you lay your money down? Over on the corner there's a happy noise. People come from all around to watch the magic boy."

This SHOULD be Manfred Mann and "BLINDED BY THE LIGHT."

"I don't ever remember any TWI leader discouraging us from reading the gospels. Yes, at times in TWI the gospels were used merely to augment the epistles, but that's better than what churches did...totally ignore the epistles." [To this day, in ever Roman Catholic mass, there is a reading from the Epistles. Many modern churches teach about the Epistles, and teach living like Jesus said in the Gospels AND was said in the Epistles. There's plenty of sound doctrine in churches today. Please remember that you are making errors in your doctrine right now because we ALL do- bur you give yourself a pass on that and let the churches have both barrels. In the neighborhood where I grew up, right now, there's a RC parish that walks the walk and talks the talk, teaching fairly well from the Epistles and teaching RIGHT ACTION- like helping others, and getting out in the community to actually help them! That's something any ex-twi person should try sometime. It's very different than just reciting Scripture and feeling superior. Not far from where I once worked is a large Pentecostal church that teaches Scripture in a manner you'd find comfortable- coupled with practices of The Spirit (their celebrant completely discarded the schedule for one of their services because he was advised =by revelation- that healing was a bigger priority, so the entire service was given over for prayers for healing.) There's definitely plenty of churches out there where the Epistles are NOT ignored.] "There is nothing that could happen in a 'so called' cult...that couldn't also happen in a 'so called' mainstream Christian church. Adolescents getting molested in a catholic church is as bad or worse than anything that could happen in a "cult". " [It's a disgrace either way, but the odds on it happening are much greater in a cult for many reasons, and there's methods of redress in a church whereas in a cult, the victim can be silenced and destroyed to the point of committing suicide by the cult leader (vpw certainly did that one.) a sensible person will manage and MINIMIZE THEIR RISKS. You can get run over when walking on the sidewalk- but a sensible person crosses at the corners and crosswalks and waits for the traffic lights, and watches carefully as they cross. They don't say "Well, I can get run over anytime" and just dash out into oncoming traffic! That's a rather silly defense for being in a cult- but it's been brought up before and refuted before. Some people never learn.] "The argument that VPs sins negate the possibility that he was right about anything is absurd...just simply not true. Imagine the most heinous crimes possible. Murder, sexual assault, theft, etc. Imagine that I, Johniam, am guilty of those. Then imagine yourself...not guilty of any of those. Each of us (myself and yourself) say that 2 plus 2 equals 4. Am I less correct than you??? We're ALL sinners. We ALL deserve the death Jesus endured for us. That doesn't mean that any one of us cannot tell many truths." [ It IS absurd. BECAUSE it is absurd, I wish you pro-vpw people would stop inventing that one and putting it in people's mouths! NOBODY claimed that to any of you. I even ran a poll a long time ago, and nobody claimed that position even under anonymity. I've mentioned that before, as well. Selective memory or an inability to give up a deeply-held belief? Why would that one be "deeply held?" Because it's ANOTHER piece of nonsense invented to cling to and hide behind when others are saying sensible, inconvenient truths. "Oh, don't listen to them, they hold this ridiculous viewpoint!" they can say, and go back to believing all sorts of things that were successfully refuted years or decades ago.] "If you don't want to fellowship with someone whom you KNOW is guilty of such and such, then you don't have to. I got into the word in 1976. If I had found out in, say, 1980 that VP was doing what he did with women, then I may have had a real problem with continuing beyond the people I knew in twig. I really can't say conclusively how I would have responded." {If you would have considered it AN OPTION to continue, that says a lot about the error of your walk- something taught rather extensively to you BY vpw. Surprise, surprise, he soft-pedaled the consequences of his types of sins, while still hiding them from you.] 2 Timothy 4:14 King James Version "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:" I Corinthians 5:11-12 King James Version 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? [For someone who supposedly reads and respects the Epistles, this should be easy, But, according to you, we DON'T judge them that are within" no matter what the apostle Paul wrote. Whose words matter more to you? That will determine your doctrine and practices- as it has.] (snip)