WordWolf

Actually, I left one clue, so you're not completely clueless. I'll add that, IIRC, it's a title cut from an album.

Every once in a while, vpw mixed his signals. He'd set up all the stages to worship him (all the stories setting him above everyone else, stand when he entered to teach, call him The Teacher, etc) and occasionally say directly not to do it. Why? Then people could say "See? One time here, he said he didn't die for us and it was Jesus we are to look to." Meanwhile, if you didn't look to vpw for your answers, you were in trouble if you were on grounds. I wouldn't attend an anything that worshiped anyone. I get uncomfortable with Jesus worship-and if any man deserves worship it would be that Man and no other. Anyone else might earn a snicker.

[Hey, Galen, you changed the subject and pretended you didn't. Was the previous subject too touchy? Let's review what you hid there. We were discussing how vpw (a man with no training nor experience whatsoever with leadership training programs other than sitting in on a class or two that were not designed to train leadership) set up a program, supposedly to train Christians to be better Christians and to be Christian LEADERS, and after a few YEARS of that program, by your own admission and confirmation, those Christians came out WORSE as Christians than Christians who never entered that program. That didn't say anything about MARKETING. That said something about how awful the program was- it consistently achieved results the OPPPOSITE of what was supposedly intended. That said something about how awful twi was- it set up and administered that program and never saw a need to fix its glaring problems. That said something about vpw- he had no background in anything necessary to set up such a program, he set it up, he promoted it, he charged the participants money and had them work, and when complaints came in, he blew them off- including complaints of rapes during LEAD- and he never did any kind of analysis to see if the program was actually HELPING rather than HURTING. On the other hand, nobody makes the same claims about BG Leonard. Leonard made classes specifically for already-trained ministers, to enhance their performance with their congregations. No prestige in that, no money in that, no name recognition in that. Leonard wanted to bless God's people. vpw didn't really care about that. "vpw was a salesman. He built an organization focused on marketing classes." Ok, I'll heartily agree with you there. ] [vpw put HIMSELF on a pedestal. Need me to break down all the steps he took to do that? (Anyone want me to get into that all again?) vpw put HIMSELF on a pedestal. vpw was a salesman. vpw sold people on HIMSELF and convinced them that he was some great one. He built his organization around the image he built of the classes and of himself who taught the classes. People were tricked, people were fooled. People put him on the pedestal that he himself had prepared. vpw convinced THEM he was holy. These people didn't invent that themselves- vpw primed them for it and set the stage and said all kinds of things to lead people there. Some of them got all the way there, some got part of the way there. Some are still there.]

I'm glad Naten's looking at this but there's at least 2 things I think he's missing in that chapter. 1) He sounds like he thinks the Pharisees were in any way LOGICAL. They were actively looking for any excuse to discredit Jesus. They interrupted his teaching and tried to use someone's potential execution to get Jesus to make a mistake, without even caring what happened to that person. Follow them through the chapter. They didn't get ANYTHING Jesus said. That's not specifically because Jesus was speaking illogically. He was speaking on a level they couldn't understand because they heard his words but didn't listen to them. 2) The verb tenses of past and present, I think, tell us a lot, and there's a lot they DON'T say. Jesus never said he predated Abraham. Jesus never said he saw Abraham. Jesus said he existed in the present. Jesus said Abraham existed in the past. Yet Abraham-in the past- looked to see Jesus' day-which was in the present. Abraham saw what hadn't happened in his time. That's because God could show Abraham what was planned long before Abraham came along. Jesus didn't exist yet- and yet, he did, because God's plan concerning Jesus was complete and set. So, when Jesus was finally conceived and born, he literally existed for the first time, but reality had been set with him in mind thousands of years before. He was "there" already. I don't expect everyone to AGREE with me, but if they can't even see my point, they aren't trying very hard and probably don't WISH to. Which is not my problem. :)

I guarantee this is not a country song. I prefer rock to other forms of music. I've never been one to like country OR western music, since I've a tendency for a New York state of mind. "Some people stay far away from the door If there's a chance of it opening up. They hear a voice in the hall outside And hope that it just passes by. Some people live with the fear of a touch And the anger of having been a fool. They will not listen to anyone So nobody tells them a lie. I know you're only protecting yourself. I know you're thinking of somebody else. Someone who hurt you But I'm not above Making up for the love You've been denying you could ever feel. I'm not above doing anything To restore your faith if I can. Some people see through the eyes of the old Before they ever get a look at the young." "Some people say they will never believe Another promise they hear in the dark, Because they only remember too well They heard somebody tell them before. Some people sleep all alone every night Instead of taking a lover to bed. Some people find that it's easier to hate Than to wait anymore. I know you don't want to hear what I say. I know you're gonna keep turning away. But I've been there and if I can survive I can keep you alive. I'm not above going through it again. I've not above being cool for a while- If you're cruel to me I'll understand. Some people run from a possible fight, Some people figure they can never win. And although this is a fight I can lose..." "You know you only hurt yourself out of spite. I guess you'd rather be a martyr tonight. That's your decision- But I'm not below Anybody I know If there's a chance of resurrecting a love. I'm not above going back to the start To find out where the heartache began. Some people hope for a miracle cure, Some people just accept the world as it is. But I'm not willing to lay down and die..."

But, but, this movie, besides having Lewis Black, had JUSTIN LONG and JONAH HILL in it!

"There are a lot of things in my life that I thought were real and ended up being fake. Why can't the opposite be true?" "Rejection. That's what makes a college great. The exclusivity of any university is judged primarily by the amount of students it rejects." "Why, what happened?" "Some political crap. I got a zero on my SAT's." "You do know you get 600 points just for signing your name right?" "Ask me about my wiener!!" "I want to learn how to blow sh* up with my mind." "Nah, I'm not going to answer your question, 'cause you guys have already made up your minds. I'm an expert in rejection, and I can see it on your faces, and it's too bad that you judge us by the way we look and not by who we are, just because you want us to be more like them when the truth is we're not like them, and I am damn proud of that fact! I mean, Harmon College and their - their 100 years of tradition. But tradition of what? Of hazing kids and humiliating anyone who's a bit different? Of putting so much pressure on kids they turn into these - these stress freaks and caffeine addicts." "Your phony school demeans real colleges everywhere!" "Why? Why can't we both exist? Huh? You can have your grades, and your rules and your structure and your ivory towers, and then we'll do things our way. Why do we have to conform to what you want?" "Your curriculum is a joke, and you, sir, are a criminal." "You know what? You're a criminal. 'Cause you rob these kids of their creativity and their passion. That's the real crime! Well, what about you parents? Did -did the system really work out for you? Did it teach you to follow your heart, or to just play it safe, roll over? What about you guys? Did you always want to be school administrators? Dr. Alexander, was that your dream? Or maybe no, maybe you wanted to be a poet. Maybe you wanted to be a magician or an artist. Maybe you just wanted to travel the world." " Hi there! What's your name? My name's Abernathy Darwin Dunlap but you can call me A.D.D. on the account of the fact that I have A.D.D., which is attention deficit disorder. You know - everyone used to think it was just an addiction to sugar when I was 6 and my mom used to cry because she thought I would never be like a fully functioning member of society like my neighbor who has Legionnaires' disease." "I told ya." "It was your idea to put 'acceptance is just one click away.'" "Yeah, you put it as 'one click away! You don't make it... clickable!" "When I got accepted here, it was the first time my parents ever said they were proud of me!" "Hey Shrad, do you know any places up near Harmon we can rent?" "Oh, yeah I do, actually. I carry around a list with me at all times of abandoned buildings for fake colleges." "Okay cut the crap Bartleby. Society has rules and the first rule is: You go to college. You wanna have a happy and successful life, you go to college. If you wanna be somebody, you go to college. If you wanna fit in, you go to college." "Well, you know what? Maybe I didn't get into college!"

Jennifer Garner Elektra Terrence Stamp

No.

"There are a lot of things in my life that I thought were real and ended up being fake. Why can't the opposite be true?" "Rejection. That's what makes a college great. The exclusivity of any university is judged primarily by the amount of students it rejects." "Why, what happened?" "Some political crap. I got a zero on my SAT's." "You do know you get 600 points just for signing your name right?" "Ask me about my wiener!!" "I want to learn how to blow sh* up with my mind." "Nah, I'm not going to answer your question, 'cause you guys have already made up your minds. I'm an expert in rejection, and I can see it on your faces, and it's too bad that you judge us by the way we look and not by who we are, just because you want us to be more like them when the truth is we're not like them, and I am damn proud of that fact! I mean, Harmon College and their - their 100 years of tradition. But tradition of what? Of hazing kids and humiliating anyone who's a bit different? Of putting so much pressure on kids they turn into these - these stress freaks and caffeine addicts." "Your phony school demeans real colleges everywhere!" "Why? Why can't we both exist? Huh? You can have your grades, and your rules and your structure and your ivory towers, and then we'll do things our way. Why do we have to conform to what you want?" "Your curriculum is a joke, and you, sir, are a criminal." "You know what? You're a criminal. 'Cause you rob these kids of their creativity and their passion. That's the real crime! Well, what about you parents? Did -did the system really work out for you? Did it teach you to follow your heart, or to just play it safe, roll over? What about you guys? Did you always want to be school administrators? Dr. Alexander, was that your dream? Or maybe no, maybe you wanted to be a poet. Maybe you wanted to be a magician or an artist. Maybe you just wanted to travel the world." " Hi there! What's your name? My name's Abernathy Darwin Dunlap but you can call me A.D.D. on the account of the fact that I have A.D.D., which is attention deficit disorder. You know - everyone used to think it was just an addiction to sugar when I was 6 and my mom used to cry because she thought I would never be like a fully functioning member of society like my neighbor who has Legionnaires' disease." "I told ya." "It was your idea to put 'acceptance is just one click away.'" "Yeah, you put it as 'one click away! You don't make it... clickable!"

"Some people say they will never believe Another promise they hear in the dark, Because they only remember too well They heard somebody tell them before. Some people sleep all alone every night Instead of taking a lover to bed. Some people find that it's easier to hate Than to wait anymore. I know you don't want to hear what I say. I know you're gonna keep turning away. But I've been there and if I can survive I can keep you alive. I'm not above going through it again. I've not above being cool for a while- If you're cruel to me I'll understand. Some people run from a possible fight, Some people figure they can never win. And although this is a fight I can lose..." "You know you only hurt yourself out of spite. I guess you'd rather be a martyr tonight. That's your decision- But I'm not below Anybody I know If there's a chance of resurrecting a love. I'm not above going back to the start To find out where the heartache began. Some people hope for a miracle cure, Some people just accept the world as it is. But I'm not willing to lay down and die..."

18-22 years old. No, seriously, 2006.

"There are a lot of things in my life that I thought were real and ended up being fake. Why can't the opposite be true?" " Rejection. That's what makes a college great. The exclusivity of any university is judged primarily by the amount of students it rejects." "Why, what happened?" "Some political crap. I got a zero on my SAT's." "You do know you get 600 points just for signing your name right?" "Ask me about my wiener!!" "I want to learn how to blow s* up with my mind." "Your curriculum is a joke, and you, sir, are a criminal." "You know what? You're a criminal. 'Cause you rob these kids of their creativity and their passion. That's the real crime! Well, what about you parents? Did -did the system really work out for you? Did it teach you to follow your heart, or to just play it safe, roll over? What about you guys? Did you always want to be school administrators? Dr. Alexander, was that your dream? Or maybe no, maybe you wanted to be a poet. Maybe you wanted to be a magician or an artist. Maybe you just wanted to travel the world." " Hi there! What's your name? My name's Abernathy Darwin Dunlap but you can call me A.D.D. on the account of the fact that I have A.D.D., which is attention deficit disorder. You know - everyone used to think it was just an addiction to sugar when I was 6 and my mom used to cry because she thought I would never be like a fully functioning member of society like my neighbor who has Legionnaires' disease."

"I know you don't want to hear what I say. I know you're gonna keep turning away. But I've been there and if I can survive I can keep you alive. I'm not above going through it again." "You know you only hurt yourself out of spite. I guess you'd rather be a martyr tonight. That's your decision- But I'm not below Anybody I know If there's a chance of resurrecting a love. I'm not above going back to the start To find out where the heartache began."

Find some people with a common interest. Become an engaging guest speaker, or something. That last one probably is up your alley. I've heard it said that the best way to have friends is to be one. I don't know if you were skipping that step.

So, in your experience, twi's in-house, 4-year training program, where they spend 4 years of a person's life- at the person's expense, teaching the person doctrine, practice, conduct, and so on, produces practice and conduct WORSE than the people who never entered that program. Doesn't that say something about twi?

"I know you don't want to hear what I say. I know you're gonna keep turning away. But I've been there and if I can survive I can keep you alive. I'm not above going through it again."

"There are a lot of things in my life that I thought were real and ended up being fake. Why can't the opposite be true?" " Rejection. That's what makes a college great. The exclusivity of any university is judged primarily by the amount of students it rejects." "Why, what happened?" "Some political crap. I got a zero on my SAT's." "You do know you get 600 points just for signing your name right?"

The problem was, what to link to from Justin Long. I don't want to strand the thread. Oh, wait, I can do this.... Accepted Jonah Hill the Invention of Lying

Must be the 80s retrospective on the threads this week or something. :) We went from "Losing My Religion" to Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians' "What I Am."

Couldn't be THAT obscure if you got them that quickly. Inspiration struck on that. I thought those were decent shows, myself.

This 80s TV comedy was about a teacher whose personality is broken up into its parts, each of which is represented on-screen at times, as if we can see how he thinks. He's a teacher for a classroom of exceptional students.

[WordWolf in boldface and brackets.] Whew! Let me get this straight. [That opening, from some posters, means we're cutting to the heart of an issue. From some other posters, that means we're going to CONCEAL the heart of an issue. Let's see which one this is. If it's the latter, maybe we'll determine why it's so.] Walter was head of research so he HAD to be privy to the bad stuff, [Walter was head of research so he HAD to be privy to the RESEARCH. When John S (Research staff) came out with his paper (research) saying "adultery is bad" (really elementary research for a Bible student), Walter was well aware of it- buried it, and helped characterize it as evil, saying that whoever READ it would be in peril of devils infiltrating their thoughts. That's not even counting what he [iadmitted[/i] to being privy to separately. If you are in charge of something, you are privy to it and it is your responsibility. vpw liked to pretend he knew lots about the military, but all his characterizations of them were fictional and based on movies and none on the experience he never got. If he HAD gotten experience, he might have learned something simple to the officer training at any level- when you're in charge of something, you're responsible for all of it and if it goes right OR wrong, you are responsible. This is considered really simple for a lot of people, including people who never entered the military. Walter was in charge of research. The Research Department dropped the ball on adultery in a general sense, and when the issue came up in a good research paper, the response was the opposite that would have been taken if anyone RESPONSIBLE was in charge (someone WORTHY of responsibility, someone who could take a stand for truth and right rather than just write a paper and think the work ends there with no moral duties.] but Ralph D was trunk leader, international outreach cordo, etc. but he says he had no idea what was going on and you blindly believe him. Nice double standard. [supposing neither knew anything before it all came to a head, each should have been a bit better. (Walter should have had research saying what the Bible REALLY says and Ralph should have known more about what was going on. I give both the benefit of the doubt on that, until things were brought to their attention. When Ralph learned about women victimized, he didn't bury the news, he did something about it- and was punished for standing up for what's right and true. He was threatened, menaced (legal definition), and kicked off grounds for it. We all know that without anything "blind". When Walter learned about the adultery paper, he buried the paper and kept his job- not suffering any consequences because he maintained the same established, CORRUPT order that was doing wrong. We all know that without anything "blind." We all know who left when, and who was forced out. We're using a rather fair standard-judging by their deeds. You're doing everything to avoid saying that vpw and the people he personally groomed did the opposite to Scripture- committed adultery, set up opportunities to commit more adultery, and set up a whole structure to facilitate it- from grooming the targets to monitoring the victims and savaging their reputations if they showed signs of doing their legal and civic duties and reporting it. What vpw and his cronies did was wrong. It was right to write a paper saying "adultery is wrong." John S did that. It was wrong to bury a paper saying "adultery is wrong." Walter did that. It was right to say "rape and molestation is wrong" and do something about it. Ralph did that. It was wrong to punish people for speaking up about it. vpw's cronies did that. You want to absolve Walter for what he did and blame Ralph for what he did. I don't know what kind of "standard" that is, but it's seriously bent.] Is it not true that you are the self appointed pope of gsc and since Ralph has kissed your ring by being penitent you absolve him, but Walter hasn't been penitent yet so you can't absolve him...aww...whatever. [it is no true. This sentence was nonsense that detracts from the discussion. One guy did the right thing, and that's been noted. One guy did the wrong thing, and that's been noted. This whole "pope" thing was inserted nonsense.] In a related matter, Kris in her book says she was at Gunnison in VPs office and he left the room for a bit and she saw what he was writing and it said unflattering things about jews and she was horrified. She made it sound like she JUST THEN realized VP had issues with jews. What? I don't think so. Stanley Reahard posted on waydale that in 1981 she was at a night owl at HQ with VP and he said that the USA fought on the wrong side during WW2. Kris' account happened AFTER 1981. She knew! [so, 1) You're saying vpw was wrong in REPEATED STATEMENTS pro-Nazis and anti-Jews 2) Kris and Stanley were part of a bunch of people who heard these REPEATED STATEMENTS 3) People who worked on-grounds-who got little sleep each night as has been reported-should still be intellectually alert late into the evening after getting up early and working all day and still being at it into the night- and should have stopped in their tracks mentally and reevaluated the nonsense that was sprung on them late at night As someone who wasn't there, you're forgetting critical details you weren't present to see. The racist tripe was saved until people were walking zombies and less likely to catch it and say "Wait, what?" Yes, Kris and others didn't catch it. However, people who are exhausted are mentally dulled and vulnerable to tripe. That's probably why it was sprung on them then. vpw seemed to save the antiBiblical stuff for late at night rather than after breakfast or after lunch. So, she was present. It's understandable she might have been completely zoned out and waiting for a chance to fully go to sleep. She may not have even HEARD what was being said. Being exhausted does that. Heck, being in a repetitive business meeting during the day after enough sleep can lead to a person zoning out. Why should it be a surprise that someone could miss something under "extreme conditions"? Maybe she heard it and didn't evaluate it because she was exhausted. Maybe she didn't even hear it because she was exhausted. MAYBE she knew-but the evidence seems against it.] But you certainly absolve her as well. [No. First of all, you brought her up. Second of all, you missed critical details. Everyone who was in twi bears some responsibilities for what they did, depending on exactly what they did and did NOT do. Kris is no exception. You're the one who's introducing "black and white thinking" into this. Walter seems like a nice guy who did some horrible things when someone said "adultery is wrong." He saved his cushy job at the time, and has never said anything like "it was a poor decision to disagree with what the Bible said to support an organizational structure." I can own MY mistakes, and I do. It keeps me honest and it keeps me trying harder to avoid making them again, or making new ones.] I don't give a damn about kissing your papal ring. [That's fine, since nobody here-except you- suggested either a physical or a metaphorical ring, papal or not. Hm, you posted that at 8:30am. I was hoping you had the excuse, at least, of being able to say you were tired and not at your best. You were awake and alert posting that. I can't "absolve" you of that post. Too bad.] After leaving twi, people have the freedom to be free of nonsensical tripe being spewed, being blamed for the failings of those who led, and absolving those who led and failed. They also have the freedom to KEEP that nonsensical tripe. As we can see from this thread, they're free to do either. As we can see from this thread, most people seem to prefer freedom from nonsensical tripe. We're happier that way.

Is that "One Tree Hill Street Blues"?

*wild swing* Otis Redding's "Sitting on the Dock of the Bay"?